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Israel - Death Of The ‘Jewish’ State?

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- ISRAEL -
DEATH OF THE ‘JEWISH’ STATE?

By Brother Nathanael Kapner, Copyright 2009-2011

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THE ‘JEWISH’ STATE OF ISRAEL was founded on the premise that Jews and Gentiles cannot get along.

Zionist Jews have laid the blame for this upon the Gentiles, although history has proven otherwise. In truth, the Zionists have both fueled and perpetrated this enmity between Jews and Gentiles in their vindication of a ‘Jewish’ homeland in Palestine.

Zionist Jews, with their decades of propaganda via the Jewish-occupied press and media, would have the world believe that the founding and continuation of the Jewish state of Israel is a positive and progressive endeavor.

However, in reality, quite the opposite is true. The idea of a Jewish state, is, at its roots, a negative conception that militates against the brotherhood of man.

In 1925, the most vehement protagonist of a Jewish homeland, Jacob Klatzkin, the co-editor of the Encyclopaedia Judaica, laid down the full implications of the Zionist approach to a Jewish homeland.

Klatzkin argued that the only meaningful goal for Zionism was regaining the land of Israel. Along with this goal, Klatzkin called all Jewish assimilationists, “traitors to their Judaism.” Klatzkin maintained, in opposition to the assimilationists, that the spiritual definition of Judaism should lead to national chauvinism:

“In the face of Anti-Semitism, we Jews must insist on the rightfulness of our own nationalism. To possess our own national life, we must see ourselves as an alien body within the nations we reside, and thus insist on our own distinct identity.” View Entire Story Here.

However, the problem of this “alien body” residing as a hated people in the Gentile nations that host them, has not been solved by the “rightfulness of Jewish nationalism.” Instead, the problem has expanded into a global pandemic.

The entire world has been in a state of chaos ever since the founding of the Jewish state of Israel in 1948. Indeed, the Zionist argument for a ‘Jewish’ state has been exposed for the hoax and anti-human conception that it is.

The world continually witnesses atrocities upon atrocities against the Palestinian people committed by the Israelis and supported by Zionist Jewry worldwide, even up to the present hour.

JEWRY’S GREAT DIVIDE

TWO THREATS TO PRESENT-DAY ZIONISM and the bestial ‘Jewish’ state it has produced, has now come to the fore. Zionist Jews are currently working around the clock to deal with these threats.

The first threat to Zionism is the geopolitical realignment which is now occurring with regard to the nation of Iran and its economic and socio/religious influence globally and in the Middle East.

The second threat to Zionism is an internal threat within Jewry itself, especially within American Jewry. A division is now taking place amongst American Jews which threatens to spread beyond American shores. This division within American Jewry draws a line between Zionist-Jews and Anti-Zionist Jews.

This Great Divide within Jewry began to manifest itself with the recent atrocities committed by the Israelis against innocent Palestinians in Gaza. Outraged by the actions of the Israelis and the support from global Zionist Jewry, many American Jews began calling for the end of US military aid to Israel. And this especially, (which will mean the death of the ‘Jewish’ state), will surely become a matter of contention within Jewry in the months to come. View Entire Story Here.

OBAMA TILTS TOWARDS IRAN

THE POWERS BEHIND PUPPET-PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA have reformulated a new White House policy - a “Grand Middle East Design” - which focuses on Iran as an emerging power to be reckoned with.

This was brought home to all the players in the Middle East when US Defense Secretary, Robert Gates, told Egyptian leaders during his May 5, 2009 visit, that the “US will persist with Iran overtures.” Middle East analysts say that Washington’s objective is to negotiate with Iran in order to set the boundaries of its growing influence in the Middle East and as a global power. The White House also seeks to pull Iran away from Russia’s influence as well.

No longer is Iran looked upon as a “rogue” nation by the power elites who control Obama, namely, David Rockefeller, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and his protege, David Gates, (all Trilateralists), but rather a nation to be approached through dialogue. This new policy has put the Israelis and World Jewry on “alarm mode.”

The Obama administration is preparing to welcome Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in Washington on May 18, 2009, with pressing demands to follow its Trilateralist line. Indeed, Obama is set to be the first US president in decades to risk colliding directly with the Israeli government and the bulk of US Jewry with regard to Middle East policy.

ISRAEL AND AMERICAN JEWRY WILL SEE the US president no longer prioritizing the suspension of Iran’s nuclear aspirations, but bent on establishing a new Persian Gulf order that formalizes Iran’s rising power.

Israel will have no say in this process. By elevating Iran to a premier regional power, America will be sidelining the ‘Jewish’ state of Israel in spite of its sabre-rattling to engage in a military strike on Iran’s nuclear installations.

Netanyahu will resist being cast into a peripheral role in the strategic processes going forward with regard to Iran, which Israel sees as a threat to its future existence.

Thus, Netanyahu is marshalling all Israel’s resources, including an active role for President Peres, to avoid dropping into the role of a third-rate Middle East power whom no one consults.

A final arrow in Netanyahu’s quiver is his ability to canvass support among Zionist-bought politicians in the US Congress with the help of their sponsors, the powerful Jewish Lobby.

But Zionist Jews now fear that American public opinion, which traditionally has been sympathetic to Israel, will have a ‘change of heart’ - especially due to the current economic downturn. View Entire Story Here.

Methinks That Zionist Hegemony & Their ‘Jewish’ State
Is About To Come To An End…

___________________________________

For More See: Why Israel Should Not Exist Click Here

And: The Evils Of Zionism Click Here

And: Why Israel’s Days Are Numbered Click Here

And: Israel’s Future Shock Click Here

And: State Of Israel: Not Biblical Prophecy! Click Here

And: Who Owns Obama? Click Here

And: Obama - Another ‘Trilateral’ Stooge Click Here


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Brother Nathanael @ May 10, 2009

280 Comments

  1. admin May 10, 2009 @ 9:58 pm

    Hi Everybody Of Our Precious Real Zionist News Family & Visitors To Our Site!

    I will be going away this Tuesday to NYC for Street Evangelism, May 12-18. So, please take the oppurtunity to read past articles which I think you will find very informative, and hopefully, inspiring as well, that is, to pray and work to stop the Zionist-Jewish threat to our nation and the world.

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    +Brother Nathanael Kapner

  2. Fr. Joseph May 10, 2009 @ 11:43 pm

    Appropriate thoughts of mine following my private votive Mass this evening I’d like to share…

    It all gets very tiring and nerve wracking, now doesn’t it, that it constantly has to boil down to some handful of men and women is come aloof ivory tower winding up making decisions affecting the entire human race or large segments of the human race as t o whether they can eat, have a home and family, live in peace, economic and financial security and whether or not they are immersed in conflicts and wars.

    And a handful of Vatican officials will decide if we have a Third World War.

    People elect government officials who, in turn, appoint other officials - and we have to watch them like hawks and constantly guard ourselves against them and their machinations, spending so much time and energy of one’s own life protecting oneself agaisnt both these same elected and appointed officials.

    The most incompetent and untrustworthy individuals that continually fail to do and live up to their assigned tasks to bring about the development of the Human Race and Human society are these same government officials!

    - Fr. Joseph

  3. Fr. Joseph May 10, 2009 @ 11:48 pm

    The source and root of all the evils which affect indivividuals, people and nations with a kind of poison, and confuse the minds of many is this: Ignorance, but at times a contempt for, and a deliberate turning away from it (truth).
    - Pope John XXIII

    To criticize one’s country is to do it a service…Criticism, in short, is more than a right; it is an act of patriotism - a higher form of patriotism, I believe, than the familiar rituals and national adulation.
    - J. William Fulbright, U.S. Senator

    Our country, right or wrong! When right, to be kept right. When wrong, to be put right!
    - Carl Schulz (1829-1906) American Journalist and Statesman

    The two greatest obstacles to democracy in the United States are, first, the widespread delusion among the poor that we have a democracy, and second, the chronic terror among the rich, least we get it.
    - Fr. Edward Dowling, S.J.

    - Fr. Joseph

  4. khalfan May 11, 2009 @ 1:36 am

    if hitler wore his moustache in the same fashion as Jacob Klatzkin does it mean he was not a jew ?!

  5. Joe Nugroho/Jussac, Jr. May 11, 2009 @ 2:14 am

    Bro Nath; Shalom, Salaam.

    U r such a busy man. Yet, kindly take a peek at my PAGE at www.scribd.com, especially on my remarks/brief comments on IsraHELL. By now, SyeitanYahu (Netanyahu — Syeitan means DEVIL or Satan) and his MOSSAD boys might decide that I must be silenced — for good.

    Be my guest! There lots of ex-MOSSAD boys here in Jakarta alone, posing as IT and cell-phones experts (they are, indeed, expert. Good for them, make money).

    I shall NOT bother these young chaps, or any real MOSSAD in my country. But, once they attemp to touch me, go to bloody hell! I shall RESIST!

    They, nor the NSA et CIA et PENTAGON boys (the nasty elements among them, many also good, patriotic officers et generals), scare me not.

    Good luck bro…SEARCH: Joe Jussac, Jr. or tjoaginsing.

    Btw, there is an Open Letter, oldie, 2004 during the presidential elction in Indonesia, I posted at My Doc/My Profile at scribd.com Just a couple of days ago, BEFORE, I repeat, BEFORE Madame MEGAWATI SOEKARNOPUTRI, our former prezident, decided to at last, built a coalition with the incumbent party DEMOKRAT!

    She was determined to RETAKE the Presidential Palace, she said 4 yrs ago. I advise her to reconsider it. Since, a rematch would not automatically settle the score 1:1. What can happen is 2:0! 2 for the incumbent Prez. Yudhoyono the SBY.

  6. Son of Jeffer May 11, 2009 @ 5:05 am

    Thanks again Bro Nate for the great article.

    Truth seekers please go here and watch the Money Masters video!

    http://trueworldhistory.info/

    Other good websites: www.iamthewitness.com and www.ihr.org/

    Peace to all

  7. Enya May 11, 2009 @ 5:26 am

    John XX111 never had the Truth!!!

  8. Isabella May 11, 2009 @ 5:47 am

    Yes, cut off funding to Israel.

    As Brother Kapner says, Jews are wealthy and don’t need it…Americans need the money as unemployment approaches 10%..why don’t politicians take care of their own people?

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090511/ap_on_re_us/us_stimulus_left_out

  9. Geoffrey Finn May 11, 2009 @ 6:14 am

    Hello Brother Nathanael,

    Praise God! Texe Marrs put Jones and Bermas in their evil place.

    Please forgive me for not being able to donate to help you.

    Geoffrey

  10. jgalindes May 11, 2009 @ 6:16 am

    Br.Nathanael

    I’d say that is more important, from the point of view of truth, you going to NY evangelizing, than the empty and politically correct visit of our “pontiff”.

    Things have to be transparent,we need to know that our spiritual leaders are with us,not against us.

    We need to hear that whatever afflicts us is recognized by them at the top of the spiritual ladder.

    I know positively whatever are your objectives, Brother, but I’m afraid to suspect which are the reasons of Pope’s visit to Middle East.

    Vatican’s ambiguity regarding Palestinian people, Christian or not, generated a vacuum that has not been filled yet.

    Bishop Williamson spoke the deep truth which is the substitution of Jesus Christ death-resurrection with the “holocaust” dogma.

    So go ahead and speak the truth to newyorkers, and return with the blessing of God to continue with this wonderful job.

  11. Michael K. May 11, 2009 @ 7:01 am

    Dear Brother Nathanael,

    You are going to spiritual battle, it seems, with the Rabbi Weisbagel and his collection of allies in Times Square. It’s like the championship bout, here. You must have prayed a lot by now. I think the forces of darkness would like you to stumble, and become a tool to use in their subtle fashion. But fully confessed of your own sin, you may walk humbly and lightly without doubt, like a child in the presence of its father and mother.

    Perhaps you heard of the Iranian movie, “Valley of the Wolf”, about the resistance of people in Kurdistan to a megalomaniac US Captain and his company of satanically inspired killers and ravishers. Anyway, it was a big hit in Iran, kind of like “Terminator.” Perhaps you would think it funny that the title of this coming bout, it has been seen by me as: “Valley of the Weasel.” Like Wiesenthal. Wiesen=Weasel ; thal=valley. Actually, rabbi Weisbagel’s grandfather’s real name was Weisenbagel.

    What I pray over and wonder over, is how this overt apparent sacrifice of Jewtopia, Israel is in fact an iceberg (ice ‘berg) of a fascist Trilateral-EU based system, with Iran as a ‘regional power’ in their thrall.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1179902/Revealed-The-secret-report-shows-Nazis-planned-Fourth-Reich–EU.html

    And to this, I’d like to add my opinion that Overlordship based upon Nephilim descent through present day occult power families lies at the root of all “black ops.” The much celebrated “black-ops,” made objects of movie and TV shows, are them selves the evident practice of “sorcery.” And so such is the fiat money, “re-hypothected credit debt” ponzi shell game of guaranteed inflation-deflation. Cycles of vampire harvest.

    The only thing separating what we have been saying truthfully about Talmudic Baal worshipping motives behind Zionist enterprises, from being used as fuel to ignite yet another round of “rightwing” Socialist extremism by ‘race-pagan’, ‘gentiles,’ who are rightfully insensed but wrongfully wrathful. The only thing separating us from being used for that is staying in the true spirit, which is the’love the sinner-hate the sin’ mentality, and to remember human justice is imperfect and ironic. “Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord. I shall repay.”

  12. Manuel May 11, 2009 @ 7:33 am

    Hope you are right Nathanael but I highly doubt Obama will go against israel´s wishes in any way. The zionist will find a way to get the U.S to support their willingness to attack Iran. And with respect to the oppossing faction of jewry, they are a minority that can be dealt with.

    Israel will be done with when they go too far or mess with some nation/nations that doesnt give a damn about the jews and their holocaust stories, at which point they will be erased from the map quite easily.

  13. jgalindes May 11, 2009 @ 7:37 am

    The split existed although I thought it was solved with the twin towers…

    Remember years ago, there were a series of bombings in Nairobi, and two in Buenos Aires, one in the jewish embassy, the other AMIA (Asociación Mutuaria Israelita Argentina) essentially a “charity” organization.

    The bombing in Bs.As. left more that 100 dead most of them native minimum wage ‘mongrel servants’.

    They tried to blame those bloody attacks onto Iran, going through endless maneuvers even the corruption of judges and local authorities.

    False-flag terrorist attacks, perpetrated by internal jewish fashions.

    The struggle revolves around whether or not Israel is to be a fully theocratic country.

  14. geoffrey finn May 11, 2009 @ 8:23 am

    Hello Brother Nathanael,

    Praise God! Texe Marrs sure did show those crypto jews at infowars a think or two.

    Please forgive me for not being able to donate to your ministry.
    Geoffrey

  15. Jim May 11, 2009 @ 9:31 am

    For me, their’s nothing left to do but pray for CHRIST’S quick return.

    Why HE allows, and has allowed this “problem” to fester will be my first question to HIM.

    Does HE think somehow this literal cesspool that is ALL of mankind will, somehow, turn into some utopia?

    Mankind will be EVIL until the day of HIS sure return.

    It is written.

  16. jgalindes May 11, 2009 @ 10:52 am

    Sorry above instead of fashion please read contrary parties.

    And…

    Those terrorist attacks were and are presented to the world not as they really are:

    Aggressions against the Argentinean national security originated in an internal crisis within the Jewish society and national state.

    There are presented to the world and to the Argentinean people itself as “anti-Semite” attacks performed against the Jewish people living in Argentina.

    From the beginning, it was realized that those were not anti-Semite terrorist attacks, but something fundamentally different.

    There were episodes, moments, of a long Jewish internal conflict that, as we can see, still is developing.

    I shall risk saying that among others is General Rabin murder…

  17. FredSays May 11, 2009 @ 11:35 am

    Hello, Brother Kapner and may many blessings on your head be!

    I’m afraid I have to go along with Manuel on this one. I think rapprochement with Iran is just smoke and mirrors for the peasants so that when all hell breaks loose, our fearless leaders can say they tried. The Zid leaches are too deeply buried in our system.

    Moreover, if Osama-Obama did try to seriously thwart Israel, he’d come up amongst the missing - like JFK. Let us not forget his chief of staff, not to mention his VP. The poor lad is between a rock and a hard place albeit he willingly put himself there.

    I don’t know what you think about “The Protocols of Zion”, but here is a well researched tome that traces the history of Zionism/Communism from ca. 500 BC to 1956 AD. It is even more apropos today, and free to download:

    http://www.controversyofzion.info/Controversybook/index.htm

    Good luck to you in New York, you’ll need it! — Brother Kapner in New York = Daniel in the lion’s den

    P.S. I note that you changed the name of your website. It does sound better than the old one.

  18. Isabella May 11, 2009 @ 12:22 pm

    There are people of every race and creed who act like Pharisees and then say “at least I’m not a pagan” –I’ve got news for you.. there are pagans who lead better moral lives than pedophile or philandering priests, or Shakespeare’s Shylock or the Robber Barons of the 20th century..and Jesus reached out to these “pagan people” because he knew the hypocrisy of the others..

  19. Fr. Joseph May 11, 2009 @ 12:59 pm

    Dear Enya,

    The Third Secret of Fatima was supposed to be publicly released to the World in 1960.

    Pope John XXIII chose not to release it.

    49 years later, this is the ‘World’ we’ve inherited as a result of that decision.

    So, in turning away from the Fatima Instructions, Pope John XXIII was still “right” and “correct” nevertheless in and with his statement on human nature.

    Yet God never takes back His Gifts such as His New Covenant with all of Mankind.

    If Pope Benedict XVI continues the Vatican Burial of the Third Secret of Fatima and refuses to comply with Heaven’s Expessed Wish and Desire for the Collegial Consecration, we all might as well accept that both the world’s Political States and the Church have BOTH chosen to do whatever it takes to ensure “The Downfall Of The Human Race” as prophecies by St. Nilus back in the 4th century A.D.

    I can’t FORCE every last US Government official to UPHOLD the Constitution of the United States and enforce its LAWS on those such as the ‘insiders’ who pulled off 9-11.

    I can’t FORCE every last Bishop of the Church to comply with Heaven’s Instructions relayed to the World by the Mother of God.

    Nor can I FORCE nations and national leaders from launching thermonuclear warhead equipped ICBMs.

    If people both in the States of our World and in His Church PREFER to cooperate and continue in the promotion of LIES, then that “poison” spoken about by Pope John XXIII has killed off the spirits of so many people the world over already.

    - Fr. Joseph

  20. Fr. Joseph May 11, 2009 @ 1:29 pm

    My “Message In A Bottle” to the World…

    The “smart” thing that ALL the World Leaders can do (for a change) is to call on Pope Benedict XVI and ask him to ORDER the Bishops of the Church to immediately comply with obeying Heaven’s Direction to perform the Collegial Consecration indicated by the Fatima Messages of the Mother of God.

    It’s either THAT or get yourselves ready for a REAL thermonuclear ‘Fire Works Display’ in the not too distant future.

    The first thermonuclear devise that goes off spells much distress for the Dow Jones Industrial Averages. Might even affect everyone’s 401Ks! Might cause all those McMansions throughout the USA to loose lots and lots of real estate value! Might spoil the on-going baseball, basketball or football seasons (egads!).

    And all those Federal Employees and all our Federal Officials stand the very real chance of NEVER getting their Pension Checks upon their 20 year retirements!

    - Fr. Joseph

  21. Karen May 11, 2009 @ 3:05 pm

    I say we pray our hearts out that God watches over us and takes care of us–that he guides us towards what we need to do to help ourselves out of this mess.

    He listens to the righteous, he will not forsake us!

  22. Callis May 11, 2009 @ 4:44 pm

    Another good article.

    Texe Marrs is on Jeff Rense Radio tonight about Zionist controlled media.

    Also, Bro. Nate’s section is back in the center column of Rense’s website instead of an article in the sidebar.

    Keep up the good work.

    The Hate Crime Bills will soon be law. Our voice must get louder and louder now.

    Hope to hear you on Rense or Marr’s show soon Bro. Nate.

  23. Fr. Joseph May 11, 2009 @ 4:55 pm

    Dear Karen,

    May the Abiding Presence of God the Holy Spirit surround and envelope you, your family, friends and loved ones. May the Lord grant you the Grace of His Peace. And may God the Father be ever mindful and watchful over you and yours. + Amen

    - Fr. Joseph

  24. Enya May 11, 2009 @ 6:39 pm

    Only the Son can impart True knowledge concerning God the Father, (John 1. 18 (118)). Those who pretend to have received further revelations derived from sources other than Christ are False teachers!!!

  25. Enya May 11, 2009 @ 7:04 pm

    There is only one Father and He is God the Father!!! There are no others, There is only one Holy Father and He is God the Father in Heaven, There is only one Vicar of Christ and That is the Holy Ghost!!!

  26. jackdj May 11, 2009 @ 8:16 pm

    BRN you previously posted an ADL caricature showing McCain & Obama kissing the backside of an orthodox jew.

    Do you still have that caricature for downloading and if so where is it? I want to refer it to incogman.com.

  27. KathJuliane May 11, 2009 @ 9:13 pm

    Dear Father Joseph,
    You’ve written:

    “Get the SUCCESSORS OF THE APOSTLES all together united in/for a COMMON PURPOSE and pray with THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY!

    Get the Bishop of Rome along with ALL THE BISHOPS united for a Common Collegial Purpose such as THE FATIMA CONSECRATION which is PRAYING WITH THE MOTHER OF JESUS!”

    “The “smart” thing that ALL the World Leaders can do (for a change) is to call on Pope Benedict XVI and ask him to ORDER the Bishops of the Church to immediately comply with obeying Heaven’s Direction to perform the Collegial Consecration indicated by the Fatima Messages of the Mother of God.”

    Father Joseph, this prattling on from your pulpit about “the Fatima Consecration” as if this will magically cure all of the world’s problems in one instant swoop is rather delusional and “magical thinking” on your part, especially considering that this Pope is clearly a pandering apostate Zionist heretic, the Vatican STATE is part of the Jewish PTB agenda, playing as another reader observed “the Fatima card” in what is growing increasingly clear as false ecumenism.

    Again, why aren’t you denouncing this Pope? This is delusional, especially when the “White Lady” [as the children first described her] of Fatima clearly contradicts many times what our own Lord’s pure words and that of the Holy Apostles as found in Scripture, as well as the Fathers and the voice of Orthodox Holy Tradition.

    Even your own Papal hierarchy and various clerics have stated that the cultii of Fatima, along with other approved particular Marian apparition cults and shrines, is merely deemed “worthy of belief” by your own bishops, and that they do not contradict, in their opinion, Roman Catholic doctrines. It is not obligatory on any Catholic believer to have faith in these apparitions to begin with, as they are deemed “private revelations” of the seers.

    If “Fatima” is not obligatory on the Catholic faithful, then how much less by far is it obligatory on the Orthodox in particular, and Christians in general? Cease and desist.

    Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of Faith in Sacred Scripture and Tradition. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive and most perfect Revelation, but when they occur to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history acting perhaps as heaven-sent helps and consolations to people, but they also receive the affirmation of the Holy Spirit within the entire laity involved as well as the hierarchy as to their authenticity or not.

    The Orthodox Church, as the Body of Christ, is “timeless and changeless” existing under the New Covenant for 2,000 years, yet in any age the Holy Spirit ensures that the Church solely from her deposit of faith is relevant to the times and changes of the world around her. Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Jesus Christ is the complete fulfillment, and was given by God for once and for all time.

    However, if the Marion theology and doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church are not violated by the distinct Marion cults and orders which DO NOT exist in Orthodoxy, as very clear innovations, deviations and errors from the ancient historical faith, it does contradict the Apostolic Tradition of the Orthodox Church, which is the ancient historical “trunk” of the Christian tree far older than even the religion of Roman Catholicism and its institution of the Papal monarchy in the late first millennium. In all fairness, many Roman Catholics dissent from this official teaching on these very same grounds as they do other official teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.

    Moreover, as explained before, Orthodox Christians are trained not to rely on apparitions and other supernatural phenomena as a substitute for sober-minded faith and spiritual labors of prayer and self-discipline, especially since we are all too aware that even Satan and his minions can appear as an angel of light, inspire false teachers, messiahs and “prophets”, and even at times lead some of our own holy bishops, monastics and priests astray, especially raising up situations of hubris and spiritual pride.

    As all humans live in some state of delusion stemming from the “ancestral curse” original sin, then it is much too easy to be satanically deceived, even by what appear to be ostensibly benign and innocent things themselves.

    There is a concept in Orthodoxy concerning temptations to the left, as well as temptations to the right. We are certainly familiar with “temptation to the left”, but “temptation to the right” is when Satan uses good things for evil purposes, and the deceptions are much more subtle, and harder to spiritually unravel. Even the malicious demons who have nothing in common with Him confessed that Jesus was the Son of God, and Satan used Holy Scripture in the Lord’s temptation in the wilderness.

    Think of a mother that constantly overfeeds on demand her morbidly and grossly obese child with an insatiable appetite, because she “doesn’t want her child to go hungry” and she doesn’t want to be “a bad mother”. What is satan working on in the mother? Her own self-deluded pride and blind hard-heartedness out of self-concern for her own self-image as a “good mother”. Challenge such a mother about the health of her child and you may get you head snapped off with “Every mother knows what is best for a child”, in the meantime the poor obese child is gasping for breath smothered by its own morbid obesity.

    The Pope is not the supreme head of the Orthodox Church, our own Patriarchs are, nor are we subject to the Papal monarchy, and never have, and never will be. After sorting through the volume of proud casuistry, status hunger and vanity, various historical claims and political power layers and wrangling controversies of all parties involved in Church history surrounding the “first among equals” issue, this is what it boils down to: “First among equals” and “primacy of honor” originally referred to the privilege of casting the prestigious and influential first vote in the invoked sessions of the Oecumenical Synods, and nothing more than this.

    It was the Laity of the Orthodox Church that rose up in near unanimity rather than permit our Faith to be compromised with the errors and innovations of the Papacy, and forced the bishops to repudiate their signatures on the false union at the Council of Florence. The Laity saw, especially after St. Mark, Bishop of Ephesus who refused to sign at Florence, came back and preached that the Florentine agreement compromised faith, and was made for overwhelmingly political and worldly reasons between the Latin-Frankish kings and the Papal State, and the Basilios as the civil head of the Byzantine Empire and certain hierarchs of the Byzantine Orthodox East.

    It is uncanonical for any bishop, who certainly includes the Bishop of Rome, to interfere in the province, diocese, apostolic see or patriarchate of another—a canon of church order that was expressed from the very earliest times in such documents as the Didache and the Apostolic Constitutions. And yet you, titling yourself as a cleric having no episcopal authority whatsoever, demand this very thing, over and over again, which your own Catholic hierarchy has already determined to be a matter of personal choice according to your own Catholic traditions, even a personal choice of the Pope himself. This is your own self-will imposing itself on others in “zeal not according to knowledge”.

    Our bishops and theologians are very aware of Fatima and other apparitions in the West, and the phenomena among the Oriental Churches. If they were at all convinced that it were at all necessary or useful for the spiritual profit of their own flocks to step beyond the “fence of Faith” and discipline of Orthodox Holy Catholic and Apostolic Tradition, and 2,000 years of the living experience of the Orthodox life without the Papacy concerning any additional “consecration” to “the Lady” outside of our daily Divine Liturgies in our churches and monasteries, the Eastern Church would have met, conferred and taught the necessity long ago to the Orthodox flocks.

  28. Callis May 11, 2009 @ 9:45 pm

    Message on Rense show with Masrrs on Zionism— MONDAY
    May 11, 2009

    Live Broadcast Tonight Postponed. The Network Has Been Hacked And The Broadcast Lines Blocked Completely. Someone Does Not Want This Program Aired. This Is No Accident.

  29. Al May 11, 2009 @ 10:17 pm

    They are indeed in trouble. They will find putting the toothpaste (truth) back in the tube, impossible. But I think they already know that, unless they are even more ignorant and arrogant then they’ve make apparent.

    Their lies and deceptions are becoming known, thanks to good people like you, brother Nathanael. They are not of the human race and can never be, as they so clearly state. What they lack is a soul, long ago given to their father, Satan.

    It is for them, inbred, to wish to be superior while in their black hearts they know they are inferior. Like children envious of those who are in possession of something they have no means to purchase. Without the human race to feed on they would cheat and kill each other.

    Yes the truth will set us free, but it must be spread far and wide. A task that belongs to all of us. United in the truth we shall overcome. Which brings me again to you brother Nathanael.

    Your work is of inestimable value and importance in this struggle for freedom over fascism, good over evil and life over death.

    So please be vigilant at all times. Remember, God helps those who help themselves.

    May the good Lord be with you, watch over and keep you.

  30. Hoff May 12, 2009 @ 1:22 am

    The 30 secret weapons of the jew: Creating their own opposition

    Take any position, in any country at any time and let the jews tell you what happend. The jews will tell you it was all about non-jews hating and persecuting jews. Just read any jewish ”history” book and what is it all about: Jews being innocent persecuted for nothing else then they are jews. Cry me a floodgate. *sobbing ** sobbing*

    l will give you one very clear example how the jewish ”persecution” complex and lying sobbing works. l speak to a lot of people face to face about the obnoxious lying jews and two of them are two young men, 18 and 22. The older one is explaining to me how the jews always portray themself as victims in the jewish propaganda machine. He can see this very clear, but the younger one goes on about that he … well he can see something, but he don’t ”believe” there can be a jewish conspiracy.

    l tell them you can’t criticise jews in public and there are nothing published that really talks about the real issue, the global criminal jewish mafia. ln triumph the younger one comes to me with an article published in a state subsidised communist magazin. The article is close to an A4 page and it’s about zionism. The info is correct, everything can be confirmed with jewish sources only. The article is highly critical of zionism and the only word that is missing is ”criminal jews”. Harsh, blunt and on the spot about criminal zionist jews.

    Now … This is ”proof” that you can criticise criminal zionist jews in public? Let’s assume that the entire left, from soft socialdemocrats to the extreme diehard communist scumbags in the whole world writes, say 100.000 articles every year. lf 99.999 articles are pro-jews, do you know what this ONE article critical of zionism and jews is to the jews?

    ”Proof” that the whole left are jew haters. That ONE article is ”proof” to the jews that the jews are being ”persecuted” by the entire left. This is the proportion of the lying jews, just give them a fingernail and they will make anything up. Anyone that starts to studie the jews soon discovers that the jews are lying through their teeth.

    This is how the jews creates their own opposition. Communism and zionism are twins and they are both jewish frauds. Every non-jew communist or non-jew zionist are useful idiots to the jews. No non-jew commi or zionist criticise jews in any way, on the contrary are they doing everything in their power to protect the criminal jews. Not all of them are idiots for their whole life, they think and when they see the whole picture they realise that they are Useful Idiots and wake up to the jewish problem.

    The non-jew who wrote the article is most likely on the verge to go from jew defender to attacking the lying jews. The only word missing was criminal jews. This non-jew will most likely never be published again, and if he is published again it’s only because he don’t write criminal jews. lf this non-jew wasen’t around, some jew would write the same article, the jews MUST have opposition. Alleged ”jewhate” is what keeps the jews knitted. None care about the jews = The jews will disappear.

    Hate is one of the 30 secret weapons of the jews. Do you know what you can do with hate if you can aim hate? No you don’t, but the jews knows everything there is to know about hate. The jews have used hate for 3.500 years to get what they want. lf you can aim hate you can control the world.

    The more the jews leaders tell the jews that all the non-jews hate jews, the tighter knitted the jews become. What the jews leaders are doing is to scare the living crap out of the jewish (m)asses. -Do as we say or all the non-jews will come and kill all the jews!

    Scared people do as their leaders tell them to do. lf you can scare the (m)asses - you can aim hate.

    Why are the big chunk of the (m)asses and our leaders in the western world behind the Global Jewish Mafia Crime Network? Because the jew mafia have told us for decades that the biggest threat to the western world are muslim hordes that are going to invade us and slit our throats with a hooked knif, or every muslim is a born and raised sucide bomber that wants nothing more of life then take non-jews with him in paradise.

    What the criminal jewish mafia is doing is that they scare the crap out of us and then we let the criminal jewish mafia do whatever they say is necessary, in essence kill as many muslims as possible.

    What the criminal global jew mafia is doing is that they aim hate, they make us hate muslims. The criminal jew mafia can do this because they own and controls what you call ”media” lock, stock and barrel. Just look at any TV, radio or paper in thw whole western world and what do they all have in common? The jew owned propaganda machine spews hate hate and more HATE 24-7 against muslims.

    What the same jew mafia owned propaganda machine is spewing is HATE agains all white people. We don’t see this because we are so used to it. You don’t ”believe”? This has nothing whatsoever to do with ”believe”. l will prove to you that l’m right and you are brainwashed in one question:

    Show me ONE - just ONE - article, any TV program or any radio broadcast the last 70 years that are made by jews and have anything positive to tell about white non-jews.

    C’mon … This must be easy, any paper, any TV or any radio in any western country in your whole life, surely you can prove me wrong and show me ONE article done by a jew that is not hateful toward white non-jews?

    Guess what? You can’t. But l can show you countless articles, radio and TV broadcast made by jews that SPEWS HATE agains white people. lf you still can’t see it, you are brainwashed. Just as we are being brainwashed to hate muslims. Hate as hate, just aim it and that the criminal global jew mafia can and do. Hate is a tremendous power weapon to those who know what hate is and who can aim hate, and the global jew mafia knows everything there is to know about hate.

    Did you know that hate is one of the jews 30 secret weapons? Ohhh … you diden’t even know that the jews have one secret weapons?

    http://jewise.wordpress.com/the-22-secret-weapons-of-the-jews-2/

  31. Hoff May 12, 2009 @ 1:53 am

    ”Texe Marrs on The french Connection pt 2/5” @ Ytube

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2c4ZirF-vg&feature=related

  32. Hoff May 12, 2009 @ 3:39 am

    “the white race is the cancer of human history”. - Susan Sontag -

    She is a jew and can you think of any more hateful thinking?

    Let’s remake what this jewess said: “The black race is the cancer of human history”.

    lf any white men said that all hell would break lose and the jews would be all over that white man.

    Now … show me ONE single jew that have dismissed the jew Susan Sontag. Just one, you no can do.

    To spew hate over the white people is completely okay to all the jews, but whisper anything againt the negroes and all the jews are out, accusing this person as HATER, BIGOT, etc etc

    This is the jew and white race haters obituary in Guardian.uk

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/2004/dec/29/guardianobituaries.booksobituaries

  33. Michael K. May 12, 2009 @ 5:06 am

    Beware:

    Not everything is as it always seems.

    “The effect of the activities of these Christian fronts is to create counteraction against the United States government, which in turn builds the revolution to a point where the people themselves overthrow their own government, thinking all the time that they are patriots. The purpose of the right wing as used by British Israel is to create and encourage a revolutionary state of mind and then the people will bring down their own government.

    The anti-Communist movement as it exists in the United States is peculiarly anti-American; while parading with the American Flag it is developing a pseudo nationalism to wreck the American government, just as Hitler did in Germany. Of course the claim of these people is that they want to get back to constitutional government and most of them sincerely want to, but they do not realize that the EFFECT of their actions is to destroy that which they believe they save.

    If they could understand the esoteric (hidden) purpose of their organizations, they would not be so anxious to be led to the slaughter. They should realize that as revolution increases constitutional government decreases. Government by crisis is a dictatorship. . .” [Helen Peters, The Union Jack, Political Messianism and the Right Wing, Undermining America with Americanism]

    I repudiate communism, fascism, revolution, and anarchy.

    I also repudiate Christianity as a pretext to promote the fallacious “Divine Right of Kings.”

  34. Michael K. May 12, 2009 @ 5:30 am

    “Are the Reconstructionist leaders of the Religious Right truly interested in constructive change or, are they engaging in agitation propaganda in order to corral the Christians and represent them as totally unfit to live in the New World Order.

    Consider the distorted image that many Americans have of Christians–who laugh and bark like dogs in church, vociferously complain and demand legislation to protect their missionaries from persecution, favor capital punishment except in the case of convicted murderers who become born-again Christians, are in a frenzy of hoarding food, supplies and guns to protect themselves in the event of a Y2k disaster, and are generally racist, anti-homosexual bigots.

    Even though such is not the character of true Christians, be sure that evidence of such aberrant behavior and more is being accumulated which will be used against them in an international court of law.”

    http://watch-unto-prayer.org/revolution.html

  35. Michael K. May 12, 2009 @ 5:38 am

    “Fascism has historically used false shepherds to gain access to the Lord’s flock and to clothe their infernal schemes with the respectable covering of Christianity. Prior to Hitler’s election as Chancellor of Germany, many Protestant ministers were impressed with his conservative rhetoric and encouraged German Christians to support National Socialism.

    In The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, William Shirer included a chapter which described the exploitation of the Church through Hitler’s masterful manipulation of Christian ministers. An account of one influential minister is typical of others who failed to recognize early on that Hitler used Christian terminology only to enlist the Protestant leadership in his service.

    “The Reverend Martin Niemoller had personally welcomed the coming to power of the Nazis in 1933. In that year his autobiography, From U-Boat to Pulpit, had been published. The story of how this submarine commander in the First World War had become a prominent Protestant pastor was singled out for special praise in the Nazi press and became a best seller. To Pastor Niemoller, as to many a Protestant clergyman, the fourteen years of the Republic had been, as he said, ‘years of darkness’ and at the close of his autobiography he added a note of satisfaction that Nazi revolution had finally triumphed and that it had brought about the ‘national revival’ for which he himself had fought so long — for a time in the free corps, from which so many Nazi leaders had come. He was soon to experience a terrible disillusionment…

    “By the beginning of 1934, the disillusioned Pastor Niemoller had become the guiding spirit of the minority resistance in both the ‘Confessional Church’ and the Pastors’ Emergency League…On the first of July, 1937, Dr. Niemoller was arrested and confined to Moabit prison in Berlin. On June 27 he had preached to the congregation, which always overflowed his church at Dahlem, what was to be his last sermon in the Third Reich. As if he had a foreboding of what was to come he said, ‘We have no more thought of using our own powers to escape the arm of the authorities than had the Apostles of old. No more are we ready to keep silent at man’s behest when God commands us to speak. For it is, and must remain, the case that we must obey God rather than man.’

    “After eight months in prison he was tried on March 2, 1938, before a Sondergericht, one of the ‘Special Courts’ set up by the Nazis to try offenders against the State, and though acquitted of the main charge of ‘underhand attacks against the State’ was fined two thousand marks and sentenced to seven months’ imprisonment for ‘abuse of the pulpit’ and holding collections in his church. Since he had served more than this time, the court ordered his release, but he was seized by the Gestapo as he was leaving the courtroom, placed in ‘protective custody’ and confined in concentration camps, first at Sacchsenhausen and then at Dauchau, where he remained for seven years until liberated by Allied troops.” 114.

    http://watch-unto-prayer.org/cnp2.html#beast

  36. Maria May 12, 2009 @ 7:15 am

    It is distressing to see divisions, although there should always be healthy debate within. Christians need to do a lot more work together so they can present a unified front especially when needed in today’s world. Spiritual strength can move mountains.

    Christians barely tap into their own collective strength…and if they did, what a different world it would be..

  37. Fr. Joseph May 12, 2009 @ 8:32 am

    Dear KathJuliane,

    Regarding the “White Lady”…

    A great sign appeared in the sky, a (White Lady) Woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. - Revelation 12:1

    From a sermon by St. Sophronius, Bishop…

    HAIL, FULL OF GRACE! The Lord is with you. What joy could surpass this, O Virgin Mother? What grace can excel that which God has granted YOU alone? What could be imagined more DAZZLING or more delightful?
    Before the Miracle we witness in you, all else pales; all else is inferior when compared with the grace you have been given. All else, even what is most desirable, must take second place and enjoy a lesser importance.

    TEH LORD IS WITH YOU. Who would dare challenge you? You are God’s Mother; who would not immediately defer to you and be glad to accord you a greater primacy and HONOR?

    KathJuliane, I don’t know who taught you that God the HOLY SPIRIT’s jurisdication and Range of Operation is LIMITED to the geographical area east of the Vistual River in Poland, north of the Agean Sea and bordered to the west by the Ural Mountains!
    But WHOEVER taught you that, WHOEVER insisted that you ACCEPT that is a bloomin’ heretic, be that person a Patriarch, Metropolitian, Archbishop, Priest, Deacon, Religious Abbot or whatever.

    The ‘White Lady’ appeared to St. John the Apostle on PATMOS.

    The ‘White Lady’ appeared to St. James the Apostle while he was in ZARAGOSA, SPAIN and called him back to return to Jerusalem to head up the Jerusalem Church.

    The ‘White Lady’ appeard to Juan Diego in GUADALUPE, MEXICO (outise of very ORTHODOX jurisdictions) and promised to give PEACE to the multicultural and racially mixec people of MEXICO if THE BISHOP build a Church in her honor.

    That single (Catholic) Bishop DID as instructed, and VIOLA!, the Divine Peace of God Himself came across the warring and ready to butcher each other off factions of Mexico.

    - Fr. Joseph

  38. Fr. Joseph May 12, 2009 @ 8:42 am

    Dear KathJuliane,

    The ‘White Lady’ appeared at Lourdes, at La Salette.

    The ‘White Lady’ appeared to a Japanese Carmelite nun in Akita, JAPAN so as TO WARN the entire Human Race that unless Mankind stopped offending GOD, that GOD would severely PUNISH everyone - to include Catholic Priests and ORTHODOX Patriarchs along with ALL of their respective Lay Faithful.

    So you attend your Orthodox Church’s Divine Liturgy of ST. JOHN CHRYSOSTOM. The Holy Anaphora of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom is a VALID Christian Sacrament of the Eucharist.

    St. John Chrysostom had a disciple who both the Catholic and Orthodox Church recognize as ‘ST. NILUS’.

    In the 4th century, ST. NILUS, inspired by the Grace of God the Holy Spirit, that Grace called ‘prophecy’, gave a prophecy about OUR century, and I quote:

    “Christian Pastors, BISHOPS and PRIESTS will become VAIN MEN, completely failing to distinquish the RIGHT-HAND WAY from the left.”
    http://www.fisheaters.com/nilus.html

    If BOTH the Catholic and Orthodox Clergy and all of their ‘theologians’ REFUSE to accept what the ‘White Lady’ told the Fatima seers as to what is the ‘RIGHT-HAND WAY’, then let them all consider whether or not they wish to take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for all the millions upon millions of Catholic and Orthodox LAY FAITHFUL who lost their lives in World War 1, World War 2 and pending World War 3!

    How can there be such DISREGARD for the welfare and wellbeing of ‘The Flock’ in both Catholic and Orthodox Church’s by those with the title/office of Patriarch, Metropolitian, Bishop, “theologian”??

    HOW???

    - Fr. Joseph

  39. Maria May 12, 2009 @ 8:51 am

    @Michael K

    No one is suggesting the Right Wing and you caricature and jump to conclusions yourself about others. It is obvious from your writings that you are a closet Zionist.

  40. Fr. Joseph May 12, 2009 @ 9:05 am

    Dear KathJuliane,

    At Fatima, the ‘White Lady’ said

    “ONLY I CAN HELP YOU!”

    Genesis 3:15 has the Very First Prophecy coming forth from the Mouth of the Word of God Himself

    “I will make you enemies of each other;
    you (Satan) and THE WOMAN (the ‘White Lady’)
    your offspring and Her Offspring
    It will CRUSH YOUR HEAD
    and you will strike its heel.”

    The Human Race, the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, either ACCEPTS what God Himself has to say about THE WOMAN, the ‘White Lady’ or, as St. Nilus prophecied, the Human Race, the Catholic Churcn and the Orthodox Church will ALL experience “the downfall of the Human Race”.

    End of any further arguments!

    God’s Position is this to the “theologians”

    “Take it or leave it.”

    No “theologian” has ever been instructor and counselor to God Himself!

    - Fr. Joseph

  41. Maria May 12, 2009 @ 9:11 am

    @Michael K

    Why can’t you say what you’re for instead of diatribing on what you’re against, that would say more about who you really are instead of living in the shadows of other peoples’ lives..creeping in and out

  42. Fr. Joseph May 12, 2009 @ 10:25 am

    Regarding WORLD PEACE via a public and solemn Collegial Consecration by THE BISHOPS of the Church per the ‘White Lady’s’ 1917 A.D. Fatima Apparition, perhaps people the world over can learn a thing or two from past history.

    “As I see, to the great sorrow of my soul, that all the adversities which have falled upon my Kingdom (or our World - parens mine) in the last seven yers (or the last 100 years - parens mine), the epidemics, the wars, and other misfortunes, were sent by the Supreme Judge as a punishment for the groans and for the oppression of the peasant. I promise and vow, after the conquest of peace, in union with all the states, to use all means to free my people from all unjust burdens and oppressions. Grant, Oh most loving Queen and Lady, that I obtain the grace of Thy Son to do all that I propose, to which Thou Thyself have inspired me!

    “…The cannon balls did no harm to the town walls and to their horror, THEY WITNESSED THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY (the ‘White Lady’), strolling serenely on the fortifications. A consequence of this VISION WITNESSED by all the troops, was the fear and panic Our Lady created, for the Swedes were terrified by these miracles.”
    - from
    http://catholicsouthernfront.wordpress.com/chapter-929-the-swedish-army-invades-poland/

    Get THE BISHOPS of the Church to perform the Collegial Consecration as the Mother of God herself instructed - and all of you will see with your own two eyes all of the spiritual strenght of the evil one CRUSHED all across this entire satanically influenced and directed ‘World’ of ours!

    It’s either that or simply go back to whining about how fouled up things are and who is doing what to whom and who is responsible for all of this fine mess our World is in by what they did years and years ago.

    - Fr. Joseph

  43. Enya May 12, 2009 @ 10:39 am

    We are not ignorant of satans devices=The Holy Spirit.

    It is not Mary appearing in places such as:- Fatima, Lourdes or any other place.

    They are spirits of devils working miracles= Revelation 16:14.

    “Thou shalt not make any Graven images or any likeness of anything that is in Heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth”.

  44. Maria May 12, 2009 @ 12:04 pm

    Why is it that the Orthodox Church is set up by nations? The Greek Orthodox Church, the Russian Orthodox Church, the Albanian Orthodox Church, the Coptic Orthodox Church…

    Isn’t there a generic Orthodox Church..?

    It does seem that is one thing the Catholic Church does have, is the universality of all nations and races under its fold.

  45. admin May 12, 2009 @ 12:10 pm

    Hi Everybody -

    I just arriveded in NYC and I am now at the Youth Hostel where I am staying. It is now 3 PM EST.

    Just as soon as I got to the Youth Hostel, a group of men around 60 years old, starting yelling at me and mocking the Cross and the Holy Gospel. One of the men SPIT right in front of the Cross. I rebuked him sharply and told him that Christ saw what he just did. He became very ashamed.

    I hope things go better as I will be out in Times Sq in 45 minutes or so for a few hours.

    PLEASE keep me in your prayers! +Brother Nathanael

  46. Maria May 12, 2009 @ 1:09 pm

    @KathJulianne

    Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of Faith in Sacred Scripture and Tradition. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive and most perfect Revelation, but when they occur to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history acting perhaps as heaven-sent helps and consolations to people, but they also receive the affirmation of the Holy Spirit within the entire laity involved as well as the hierarchy as to their authenticity or not.

    What about the “private” relevations of St. Paul who intepreted the mission of Christ. He never met Jesus Christ and everything he said came from his own “revelations”

    Should he be discredited?

  47. Maria May 12, 2009 @ 1:44 pm

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090512/wl_nm/us_pope_mideast

    When I read this article, I felt great compassion for the Pope, because visiting Israel, in his position, must always carry a lot of mental strain in terms of hitting the right notes. There will always be Jews who say you didn’t do enough, even though I’ve never known the Jews to rescue Christians from anything and, in fact, were the cause of the Ukranian Holocaust and who have never APOLOGIZED for that, much less made reparations for it, the way they have demanded from Germany.

    Israel is Shylock in Shakespeare’s “Merchant of Venice..” It demands a pound of flesh and crucifies everyone a thousand times over and never wants to let go..

    The Pope has to walk the minefield of satisfying the traditionalists in his own Church who are concerned about the future of the faith and overcompromising with those outside it.

    And then Muslims, and Arab Christians and of course, the Palestinians who are getting pounded every day.

    If Israel could handle this properly, on its own, the Pope would not need to come here and pray for all these people to stop killing each other and live in peace. They would have the vision do it themselves…

    Given all of these factions and circumstances, the Pope carried this off with great dignity.

  48. Informer May 12, 2009 @ 2:18 pm

    Dear Bro Nathanael

    I have been wondering for some time exactly where the commenter here on your site calling himself Michael K is coming from. His last comment was so strange that, for the first time, I was actually motivated to investigate one of his links, and what I found has convinced me that he is a hoaxer and almost certainly a Zionist supremacist who is getting a kick from being amongst Christians and slyly insulting them with them hardly noticing.

    I would like to suggest that before you allow him to continue posting comments here that you first check out the web site that he has identified himself with (i.e., http://watch-unto-prayer.org) and check for yourself if it isn’t a Zionist hoax.

    Here is a short example of the Zionism lurking in the fake Cristianity:

    “* King Solomon expanded Israel to God’s ancient landmarks.

    Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set. - Prov. 22:28

    And Solomon reigned over all kingdoms from the river unto the land of the Philistines, and unto the border of Egypt… - I Kings 4:21

    He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth. - Psalm 72:8″

  49. Informer May 12, 2009 @ 3:00 pm

    Another “interesting” quotation from Michael K’s site:

    “* 1778 - Haim Solomon finances Revolutionary War victory at Valley Forge; George Washington authorizes Star of David on dollar bill.

    “America has been blessed by the Jewish community. Let me take you back to a story of the American revolution and Haim Solomon, a Philadelphia banker. When George Washington and the Continental Army were fighting for their very lives in the snows of Valley Forge, they didn’t have enough food to eat, they didn’t have enough weapons, they didn’t have enough ammunition to fight the British; it looked like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness would never happen.

    Haim Solomon went to the Jewish people of America and the Jewish people of Europe and raised millions of dollars and gave it to George Washington. That contribution turned the tide of the American revolution. George Washington was so appreciative of Haim Solomon’s contribution that he had the engravers of the American one dollar bill express his appreciation to the Jewish people by placing this insignia over the head of the American eagle. It is the Mogan David, the Star of David ✡.

    In addition, around the Mogan David is the cloud burst of the Shekinah Glory of God that was over the Tabernacle. If you turn it upside down, then you have the Menorah. The contribution the Jewish people made to assist America in the war effort was one that George Washington insisted that all Americans know about.”"

  50. KathJuliane May 12, 2009 @ 4:06 pm

    God bless you, Maria. A very excellent question about the Orthodox Church.

    We Orthodox can appear to be a very disorderly lot compared to the monarchial structure of the Roman Catholic Church, as our organizational structure adheres to the “concillar and collegial” foundational Apostolic roots of the unified “Roman Orthodoxy” of the undivided Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church of the eastern and western portions of the Byzantine Roman Empire the first several centuries after Constantine, prior to the rise of the Papacy and axis with the Latin Frankish Kings before and after 1054 as a symbolic historical date.

    Despite the political collapse of the western portion of the Roman Empire, up until about the 8-11th centuries, the “norm” in the West, just as in the East, and the local diocese was the basis of ecclesiastical organization, with each diocese having its own bishop, the highest hierarchial office in Orthodox Church. Titles like “patriarch”, “pope” (Alexandria has her own Pope), metropolitan, were descriptors of degrees of responsibilities, rather than elevated offices above the rank of bishop.

    Church dioceses were governed under their own autonomous archbishops and bishops, often a local man raised up by the flocks, which were ecclesiastically organized following the Roman civil metropolitan (mother-cities) provincial and diocese systems , ie. the Church of Gaul, Church of Francia, the Church of Germania, the Church of Iberia, the Church of Celtic Britain in the south, the Church of Ireland, Scotland, Church of Milan and after the Anglo-Saxon rise, in the north was the Church of Anglia.

    In terms of imperial or empire-wide Church government within the Byzantine model of Church and State, she was organized under the Pentarchy of Patriarchs from their respective Apostolic Sees of Rome, Constantinople, Antioch, Alexandria, which were all classed as ‘metropolia’ having populations of 1 million or more, and Jerusalem—the “Mother Church of Christendom”. Following again the Roman civil division of the empire into 10 administrative dioceses, each Patriarchate had certain ecclesiastical responsibilities for approximately two diocese geographical territories. Of separate responsibility under the emperor(s) was the imperial civil administrative and military divisions of the East and West.

    With the Muslim conquests, three of the five Patriarchal sees—Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem came under Muslim rule under the millet system losing their prominence, and as a consequence, Rome and Constantinople came into higher prominence within the Pentarchy than was originally intended.

    In the meantime, under various historical and political pressures and destabilizing forces such as the waves of barbarian, Gothic and Muslim invasions and the rise of the Franco-German kingdoms and noble estates, the Patriarchate of Rome gradually converted itself into the Papal monarchy as well, consolidated its power and ~politically~ broke with Constantinople in the 8th century as the independent monarchial Papal State or Papacy, now more or less allied with the Frankish Carolingian emperors.

    In the 11th century, power was further consolidated under the reforms of the next four German popes, two who were Emperor Henry III’s kinsmen, who were nominated directly by the Carolingian kings, last of which, Gregory VI (?) through his legates excommunicated the Patriarch of Constantinople and by extension, the Orthodox Church, aka the imperial Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church of Romania in terms of lawful corporate title under the Roman Code of Justinian.

    No longer under Roman imperial law, having politically abandoned nominal submission to the Byzantine Roman Emperor by forming itself as the Papal monarchial state and formally allying politically with the Frankish emperors, and then finally breaking ecclesiastical communion with Constantinople, the Papacy could no longer lawfully use the title civilly, politically or ecclesiastically “Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church” in papal court documents for a number of technical reasons apart from certain matters of faith, which is why the Papacy had to commence legally title itself as Holy Roman Catholic Church. In turn, to avoid confusion between the two Churches, the Eastern Church in time adopted the name of “Orthodox Church”.

  51. KathJuliane May 12, 2009 @ 4:31 pm

    The common perception is that we have divisions comparable to history of the West, which is simply not true, once getting past the surface. Orthodoxy is Orthodoxy, whether it is practiced among Syrians, Serbs, Russians, Greeks, Arabs, or Americans (including the Aleut and Inuit Orthodox churches in Alaska, who can still conduct liturgies in their own native tongues.)

    The claim that the various Orthodox churches [are] hopelessly divided among themselves, similar to the Protestants, except that the Orthodox were split along the lines of ethnic nationalisms, is a misconception, because the Orthodox Church is not monolithic in structure like the RCC. True to its origins, Orthodoxy functions more like a commonwealth ruled by the universal “college of bishops” in communion with each other, roughly comparable to the republican structure of the USA.

    It is the kind of cliché that is often trotted out by Protestants and Roman Catholics alike who don’t know where to start for an investigation, or consider it all too messy. However, time and again through 2,000 years this “commonwealth” system has proven to be extremely resilient and flexible under all kinds of conditions in preserving Holy Orthodoxy, especially throughout our Diaspora from our various homelands.

    For the most part, the division of the Orthodox world into various, self-governing “national” Churches has more to do with the Western European phenomenon of nationalism and the subsequent interference of western powers (Great Britain, in particular) in the internal affairs of the Balkan nations than it does with the internal logic of Orthodoxy.

    Fr. John Meyendorff observed that in Greece and in the other Balkan countries of Bulgaria, Serbia and Romania, nationalism was generally promoted by a western-trained and western-oriented secularized intelligentsia which had no real interest in Orthodoxy and the Church except as a useful tool for achieving secular nationalistic goals, which in hindsight was a part of the Zio-Illuminati world revolutionary agenda to begin with.

    While nationalism has been and remains a problem for Orthodoxy, it is in no way of the essence of Orthodoxy, and the bishops of both the Churches of Georgia and of Russia have struggled to stay above the political heartbreak that is going on. Indeed, in 1872 the Orthodox Church formally condemned as a heresy the theory that the Church should be organized according to ethnic make-up rather than according to territorial dioceses (phyletism).

    Each of these national Churches professes one and the same Orthodox Faith and Holy Tradition, observes one and the same liturgical life (albeit in different languages and local customs and traditions which add a cultural “flavor”), and maintains full Eucharistic communion with the others, which is what keeps us united in our common commitment to keep Apostolic “the deposit of faith” pure and undefiled, a responsibility that the hierarchs, clergy, monastics and laity all share. The fact that they do not all answer to a single bishop in a foreign country in no way means that they are not truly united in one, catholic Church.

    Now it is certainly true that the presence of multiple, overlapping jurisdictions in America is a great problem and a cause for scandal. However, it must be noted that this sad situation is the result of particular historical circumstances well beyond the power of anyone to control. Before the Russian Revolution of 1917, North America was de facto the missionary territory of the Russian Church. Aside from the dominant presence of the Orthodox Church in Alaska (formerly Russian territory), Orthodox missionaries moved south along the West Coast during the 19th century. Fort Ross in California, now a state historical park, was originally “Fort Rus” a Russian colony, which was restored some years ago, including its log built church.

    When Orthodox from the Mediterranean and Eastern Europe began to arrive in America, most went under the care of the existing Russian Church structure. The first Syrian bishop in America, Rafael Hawaweeny, was actually a bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church, which because of Orthodox unity, acted on behalf of the Patriarch of Antioch and Arab and Syrian immigrants.

    While many Greek communities maintained a separate existence, bringing priests over from Greece, their requests for bishops were always denied, because there were already Orthodox bishops here filling the offices, and the Churches of Greece and Constantinople were not willing to establish a parallel hierarchy. However, these same Greeks if they had no clergy of their own, found no difficulty attending Russian or other Orthodox clergy.

    The Serb, Syrian, Arab, Greek, and Russian faithful that made their way to San Francisco during the Gold Rush established their own “Orthodox Society” in 1850, and for decades the ethnic Orthodox relied on the chaplain-priests of the Russian Navy and Fur-trading Company ships when they pulled into local ports. The communities helped each other raise churches and basilicas.

    The Russian Revolution, however, created problems not only for the Church in Russia, but for the Church in America as well. In the ensuing chaos, multiple Orthodox jurisdictions were established as the individual immigrant communities appealed to their mother Churches for help. As time went by, people got used to this unusual arrangement.

    Thus you can find in a single city a Greek, a Russian, and a Serbian Orthodox Church.
    It must be noted here that no one today considers this situation to be normal or even acceptable in the technical sense. All Orthodox jurisdictions in this country are aware of the fact that the situation is uncanonical, but blameless in the fact that circumstances have forced the issues rather than any one’s intent. We work with what we have.

    A certain degree of disorganization is the price the Orthodox Church pays for not succumbing to the temptations of worldly success and order, and through the centuries we have paid dearly and continue to do so throughout the various lands of the Eastern Church.

  52. Lynda May 12, 2009 @ 4:52 pm

    Dear Kath Juliane,

    Invocation various political pressure, deststabilizing forces and barbarian hordes does not explain the monarchical order of the Catholic Church.

    To understand this, you have to quote the Scriptures and the Patristics. With respect to this Orthodox website, I quote a Saint and Doctor of Holy Church venerated by both East and West.

    “He saith to him: ‘Feed my sheep’, Why does He pass over the others and speak of the sheep to Peter. He was the Chosen one of the Apostles, the mouth of the disciples, the head of the choir. For this reason Paul went up to see him rather than the others. And also to show him that he must have confidence now that his denial had been purged away. He entrusts him with the rule (prostasia) over the brethern…If anyone should say ‘Why was it James who received the See of Jerusalem?’ I should reply that He made Peter the teacher not of that See but of the whole world.”

    St John Chrysostom, Homily 88 on John 1. C.F. Origen ‘In Ep. ad Rom’; 5:10, Ephraem Syrus ‘Hymn, in B Petr’ in Bibl. Orient.

    And this magisterium, this teaching authority, for the light of the gentiles is bound upon earth and in heaven according to Our Lord’s word to his Apostles.

    Collegiality is the teaching of the sacred college in union with Peter and his Successors.

    Our Lord, himself is the chief cornerstone of the foundation of the Church. (Eph 2:20), He has set Peter the Rock, his Vicar and the Successors of Peter, upon Himself. The foundation of the Apostles and Prophets aligns and squares with this as a living teaching authority and Apostolic Law based upon Our Lord’s teaching / the sacred deposit of faith.

  53. Lynda May 12, 2009 @ 6:42 pm

    Dear Informer,

    Watch-unto-Prayer.org is not a Zionist website. It is a work of rabbinic Judaism attempting to substitute a version of Judaism (suitable for the goyim) for the living Source of authority of the Christian faith - the Holy Spirit speaking to the Churches through Apostles, the succession of bishops, Fathers, Doctors, the Divine Liturgy and saints. This flows together like a living and life-giving stream.

    “For scripture does not admit of private interpretation” (2 Peter 1:20)

    There is rabbinic skill, scholarship, nuance and facility behind much of the writing. Also a lot of sly humour on the goyim - like the pseudonym of the gifted writer ‘Jan Moser’, memorialised on that site. If you like a website such as Frum Satire, this is funny.

    A fascinating website and definitely not for any Christian struggling with the concept of ‘what is the Church’.

    Hint: The Christian fiath pertains to a new and universal Covenant (which forms a unique people out of many nations) and an order of that community (the Church). It is not a Jesus and Me, Bible movement.

    Again, let me emphasize: “…the scripture does not admit of private interpretation” 1 Peter 1:20. Kath Julianne has spoken well on this subject with respect to private revelations.

    For Bible Based (only) Christians, Watch-unto-Prayer is a dangerous website. (And I am sure this is the entire point of the exercise). If you do not have a solid grip on the living magisterium of the Church through Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition (2 Thess 2:15), Patristics and Doctors (and above all saints canonized by the Church), then BEWARE, it will lead you out of the Living Stream of our holy faith into te mirages of deserts (all nicely sign-posted with Bible verses).

    For the ‘Bible Based’ Christians reading here - this is exactly the type of website to be wary of. “For the scripture does not admit of private interpretation.” (1 Peter 1:20)

    The Christian faith pertains to a Covenant and an Order. It is not a Jesus and Me movement.

    Also, I notice on that website, the Catholic Church is no longer in their ‘Whore of Babylon’ category and they have put Zionist Israel, which eternal capital Our Lord calls Sodom and Gommorrah Rev 11:8 in the coveted position.

    Ah me. The humour of Lucifer is nothing if not diabolical. Just as Anti-pope Benedict (that great champion of the Noachaida) comes to Jerusalem, the Catholic Church drops off the Leaderboard.

    Immediately by Jewdar goes ballistic. For what institutions does the Protocols of Sion specifically state must be overthrown before the Judaic Imperium could accede to global power?

    1. The Russian autocracy. (The Czar, you will remember blocked the Rothschild Grand Plan for a prototype League of Nations at the Congress of Vienna). Accomplished 1917

    2. The papal throne in Rome. Accomplished 1958.

    Pope Leo XIII, clearly foresaw the second event and memorialized it in his Racolta.
    “Where the See of the Blessed Peter and the Chair of Truth have been set up for the light of the gentiles, they have placed the throne of the abomination of their wickedness, so that the Pastor, having been struck, they may also be alble to scatter the flock. Arise, therefore, invincible Prince…” (Exorcism Against Satan and the Rebellious Angles. May 18, 1890.

    More to the point, Our Lady of LaSalette stated: “Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the AntiChrist”. This statement carries a bishop’s imprimatur.

    Well I believe in watching unto prayer. As my Cymraic ancestors would say: Gus an breach an la: “unto break of day”.

    Watch-Unto-Prayer is a website that functions at a very high level of the Judaic imperium in the Cryptocacy and if you know the faith, it is a source of what Michael Hoffman calls ‘revelation of method’. If you do not know the faith of the Church through the living magisterium: BEWARE.

  54. Enya May 12, 2009 @ 6:52 pm

    Peter was the Apostle of the circumsized, Paul, the Apostle of the un-circumsized(the Gentiles. It was Paul who brought the True Christain Faith to Rome!!! Peter did not come to Rome, so he was not martyred there, he lived into old age!!!

  55. Lynda May 12, 2009 @ 7:34 pm

    Dear Enya,

    Where did you get this information?

  56. jgalindes May 12, 2009 @ 7:40 pm

    Dear Lynda

    It’s precisely designed to confuse the minds of those “struggling with the concept of ‘what is the Church”.

    I believe that ‘informer’ felt something unconfortable with the site contents.

    By the way, what do you think about comeandhear website?

    Moser means traitor,isn’t it?

    With regards,Juan

  57. Michael K. May 12, 2009 @ 7:48 pm

    Dear RZN Christians,

    On the subject of the material I posted, critical of the Christian’s faith being misused in the occult scheme of things, I want to get people to think outside the affinity box. Yes, nearly everyone here, including myself is sure Zionists and Talmudists have it in for the rest of us. But, if it was as simple as that , all we would have to do would be to suppress their outward movement through political action, and presto - a better world.

    This is too simple to be the case. Furthermore, I have been trying to show people why I think the whole thing goes way beyond Jews per se. I have been trying to elucidate the evidence which makes me think that this occult New World Order is the work of the cult of Cain’s kingly bloodline, in its attempt to bind man to the belief in mystical rulership of God-Kings, by blinding him to the Gospel.

    To this end I see most Jews as useful idiots, as is anyone else who can be subverted into an occult initiatory program under the guise of “true” religious faith. And each one in turn may end up on the refuse heap of history after they are used for whatever purpose by soulless manipulative snakes. The snakes themselves are far too clever to be seen firsthand.

    Because the truth is, ostensibly Christian people, have been proven over and over to be useful idiots for the real power. Jews are only so big. They don’t really run everything. They have masters for whom they slave, too. If tomorrow there were no Jews, there would still be sinners everywhere, and no one can deny it.

    To me, the point in witnessing about Jews is that they make today’s perfect example of how the ‘principalities and powers’ operate. They are currently riding a downward curve to their own destruction, all the while feeling like the big winners. This isn’t good, it’s bad. And it’s a warning to anyone who is motivated by a mystical elitist ideology and fuelled by an in-group/out-group, ritual compulsive hate reaction mentality.

    And the truth is, if the Zionist EU plus Zionist occupied America is the Fourth Reich, and it may be, their persecution of anti-semites is a flawless blind hiding their real identity, while exercising all the powers true to their type. It has already been demonstrated that the Nazis and Zionists were allied. And that the parties most benefiting from the German tragedy survived the post-war period intact. The Luciferic power hid itself by trading an old skin for a new one, what cares it? It survived and grew. Nazi, Jew, Muslim, Christian, Pagan. Its all a label game until the moment of truth.

    In the final analysis, whatever people call themselves, I believe the true God , Messiah and Spirit are comforters to the meek who love and seek the Truth, and that they despise the arrogant, boastful and cruel. All attempts to set up God’s Kingdom on Earth are in vain, for all are but Man’s misguided attempt to imitate perfection.

    The wisdom we should seek from God is not to know what to CALL evil, but how to RECOGNIZE it in our midst. Maybe a return to the basic theory of the dialectic process will serve to remind people that no theoretical position is safe for long, for any position can be USED for the wrong purposes, especially our own Christian one.

    I find, though, that the Truth is not hidden except in plain sight. And that anyone who takes the pains to learn the Orthodox meaning of the Bible will find what he needs for guidance.

    I hope this clarifies my motives. Peace in Christ.

  58. Fr. Joseph May 12, 2009 @ 8:59 pm

    In both the Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Church, the most widespread Divine Liturgy used is that of St. John Chrysostom.

    In the Prayer of the People, the Priest celebrant PRAYS to God, offering up these supplications

    “For PEACE from on high, for the SALVATION OF SOULS, let us pray to the Lord. R. Lord have mercy.

    “For the PEACE of the WHOLE WORLD, for the stability of the Churches of God, and for the UNION of them all, let us pray to the Lord. R. Lord have mercy

    “Let us REMEMBER our Most Holy, Pure, Blessed and Glorious Lady, the Mother of God, and ever Virgin Mary, with all the Angels and Saints and commend ourselves and on another to Christ our Lord. R. To Thee, O Lord.

    - Fr. Joseph

  59. Fr. Joseph May 12, 2009 @ 9:05 pm

    In the Western Church, the prevailing Eucharistic Prayers contain the following

    “We offer them for Your holy catholic Church, WATCH OVER IT, Lord, and guide it; grant it PEACE and UNITY throughout the World.

    “Lord, remember Your Church throughout the world, make us grow in love, together with our Pope, our Bishop and all the Clergy.

    “Grant that we, who are nourished by His Body and Blood, may be filled with His Holy Spirit, and become one body, one spirit in Christ.

    “Lord, look upon this Sacrifice which You have given to Your Church; and by Your Holy Spirit, gather all who share this one bread and one cup into the one body of Christ, a living sacrifice of praise.”

    - Fr. Joseph

  60. Fr. Joseph May 12, 2009 @ 9:17 pm

    So we have Eastern Orthodox, Eastern Catholic and Western Catholic Churches ALL praying for WORLD PEACE (temporal in nature) for UNITY and PEACE from on high (Supernatural and spiritual in nature).

    God answers prayers.

    At Fatima, Portugal 1917 A.D. which was NOT a ‘private revelation’ but a Supernatural Event witnessed by 70,000 individuals who ALL witnessed and personally experiened the SAME Divine Manifestations, God Himself gave His Church THE ANSWER for the Church’s constant petitioning of temporal WORLD PEACE, for CHURCH UNITY and for spiritual PEACE from on high.

    All that was and still is required is for the BISHOPS of His Church to publicly honor and acknowledge before all of Mankind HIS MOTHER with a Collegial Act of Consecration of the nation of Russia to her.

    If the ORTHODOX Church does not want WORLD PEACE, does not want UNITY, does not want Spiritual Peace from on High, then why even bother praying the Prayer of of the People at the Divine Liturgies of St. John Chrysostom.

    If the CATHOLIC Church does not want WORLD PEACE, does not want UNITY, does not want Spiritual Peace from on High, then why are we Priests offering up the Sacrifice of the Mass?

    I think that the temporal and spiritual need of WORLD PEACE, of UNITY and of Peace from on High “FOR THE PEOPLE” ought to finally be taken seriously since those three things are what THE PEOPLE are asking the Clergy of the Church TO PRAY FOR!

    Families, their children and their children’s children CANNOT develope their spiritual lives and grow in Divine Intimacy with the Lord when they are being BADGERED, thrown into WARS and CONFLICTS, when they are having their ability to SECURE the necessary economic and financial resources with which to TAKE CARE of their families taken away from them while their secular governments plot every other conceivable OBSTACLE to their temporal and spiritual lives!

    - Fr. Joseph

  61. gill May 12, 2009 @ 9:30 pm

    Michael K said : “In the final analysis, whatever people call themselves, I believe the true God , Messiah and Spirit are comforters to the meek who love and seek the Truth, and that they despise the arrogant, boastful and cruel.”

    Reply: That’s new age monism and religious universalism. It does matter what we believe and what we profess in faith.

    “10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:10-12

    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6 p.s. Enya is correct. Peter never went to Rome. It is not even hinted at in Scripture. In fact, a close study of Romans, 2Tim. and Acts prove otherwise, for he would’ve been mentioned had he been there at any time. And 1Peter was written in the city of Babylon which was far East of the Roman Empire.

  62. Hoff May 12, 2009 @ 10:32 pm

    The worlds thinnest book: Jewish “history” - PERSECUTION!

    —-

    “The Final Solution - Part 8 - The World at War” @ YouTube. Jewish propaganda disguised as “documentary”. How many time do you hear the word “Jews” in every single minute?

    One of the best real journalist ever, Douglas Reed explained in one of his 15 books this jewish propaganda. When the second world war started it was; Political opponents and jews. Then during the war it was turned to; Jews and political opponents, At the end of the war it was: JEWS JEWS JEWS …

    That is close to 70 years ago and to this very day it’s: JEWS JEWS JEWS …Typical jewish brainwashing propaganda.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHIWgTeFufY&feature=channel_page

  63. Lynda May 12, 2009 @ 11:09 pm

    Dear Gill,

    History tells another story.

    Since the time Babylon fell to Cyrus the Mede about 500 B.C. it was sacked and desolated about 20 times.

    The Roman Historian Pliny (23-79 A.D.) described Babylon as a desert with only the temple of Bel (Ba’ al) still standing.

    There was only one place in the world where the entire pantheon of Babylonian gods were enthroned and that place was Rome.

    The early Church was under persecution and did not commit to writing the names of the cities where the Apostles were or were travelling. (Rather like today). For many reasons (all prophetic), the code name for Rome was Babylon.

  64. Lynda May 12, 2009 @ 11:39 pm

    Dear Juan,

    I think Informer’s Jewdar, maybe that should be J-dar, alerted him to the Judaic operation going on with Watch-Unto-Prayer.

    Moser is the correct Yiddish term for traitor in the most tribal and primitive sense.

    So I read that as Jewish writers, some of whom are schlolarly and gifted, pretending to be ‘Bible Believing Christians’ writing for a Christian audience. They are right out there with the anti-Zionism and opposition to the Jews, etc. So in this since they are traitors to the Jews.

    But with Talmudism, the end justifies the means.

    I guess they think this operation will pay out if they can con enough ‘Bible Believing’ goyim to accept a Judaised version of the Christian faith loaded with hostility to the Jews and anti-Zionism.

    So this should fetch up just the type of Christians the rabbis want in order to manipulate the backlash that is currently aborning for those who want to implode America in three cornered race wars and real, objective actions of hatred and payback (as opposed to thought crimes) .

    Only informed Christian reflection, comment and action will hose down the rabbinic MO best expressed by Theodore Herzel: “the Jews must suffer more.”

  65. roan May 13, 2009 @ 12:10 am

    Lynda, that is utter nonsense.The symbology doesn’t negate the literal city of Babylon in Nimrod’s or the Apostolic era. And Pliny isn’t the only ancient historian to write on the subject.

    But I don’t want to open a can of worms about the Black Peter in Rome and that representation of Simon Magus/Peter an occult adept. The pagan trappings in idols and hermeneutics didn’t take root in 1958. They go back to Constantine and even further back with incorporating Origen’s allegorical methodology.

  66. roan May 13, 2009 @ 12:13 am

    Josephus and Philo are two for starters. But hey, I don’t put my faith in extrabiblical sources anyhow. Scripture is clear enough. Paul would’ve mentioned Peter had he been there. We are talking 16 years you know.

  67. Loren May 13, 2009 @ 12:26 am

    Babylon and Mystery Babylon are prophetic metaphors, but there was a literal Babylon and it was located in the geographical area of modern day Iraq. And that was outside the domain of the Roman Empire for sure. Just because it was also called Babylon doesn’t erase history. Just as renaming Rhodesia doesn’t erase the history of that name, unless it is Orwell doing the speaking. Nor does symbology diminish literalism in Scripture. The context is what is imperative to keep in mind.

  68. Lynda May 13, 2009 @ 1:11 am

    Dear Roan,

    The question is, was Peter in the literal city of Babylon or not? The question is was he martyred in Rome or not?

    From the geography of ancient history, if the answer is yes, he was writing from Babylon - then, he was writing from the temple of Bel in the desert ruins.

    The martyrology of the Church in Rome places him in Rome and his martyrdom in Rome.

  69. Stavros May 13, 2009 @ 2:32 am

    Maria and all,

    The Orthodox Church is one Church. We Orthodox, would say it is the ONLY Church. The Nationally(or otherwise) described and ascribed Orthodox Churches, are simply Churches which have separate compartmentalization (but not separation), separate government, depending on their historical and cultural background. However, course, any member of any race or nationality is welcome in any of the Orthodox Churches. Also any Orthodox is welcome and can practice and part take in any other Orthodox Church.

    The apparent differences are purely cultural and practical. It is difficult for example, for a non Greek or a non Slavic person to follow the services of these respective Churches and also it is sometimes alienating/difficult to follow on their respective cultural ways. Therefore, (in addition to historical reasons and other issues such as the long time established status of these Churches), one can choose to join either permanently or occasionally any of these Churches. Truly practicing Orthodox Christians (and not people who have simply been born into such a Church/Culture), see absolutely no difference of importance between these Churches in the aspects that matter, which are Dogma, Holy Tradition and Theology.

    In response to your comment about the Catholic Church having its single head being something good, I can say that in fact, in the Orthodox Church as a whole, the multiple heads (Archbishops and/or Patriarchs) actually is a more effective way to balance out and the spiritual and/or political decisions taken, by providing a good platform and premise for equal constructive criticism between these heads. It is in this way that the principle of brotherly (in Christ) correction between them, betters the church and keeps it self in check and perpetual control.

    It is not uncommon for Patriarchs and/or Bishops to have either private or public communications that contain constructive criticism. We, as opposed to the Catholics, do not believe that any one man is infallible, under ANY circumstances, and the multiple heads in the Orthodox Church, reflect this in a very real and practical manner.

    I did not understand exactly why you mentioned the quote about Graven Images where you did, but in the context of Orthodoxy, Icons, depict Christ, his Holy Mother, Saints and events, as presented in the Bible or the holy tradition. These depictions are not of things that are in heaven, but rather of things that have appeared in the world.

    It is needless to say that a consciously worshiping Orthodox Christian, does NOT venerate the icon it self, but rather the depicted person(s) or events, always keeping in mind that the icon is only a depiction. This is the same thing similar to kissing a photo of your daughter or parents, when you have not seen them for a long time. No one would think that we are kissing the photo it self for its own sake, and it is the same with Icons.

    More in the Icons. For Catholicism, for example, we can see how their corrupted doctrines and ethos, cause dilution of this principle.

    A popular depiction of the Holy Trinity in Catholicism is to show the Father as an Old man, the Son as a younger man, and the Holy Spirit as a dove. Since we have no experience via tradition or the scriptures of the Father, then why is it depicting the Father as an Old man? This is where the line is crossed for example. The traditional depiction of the Holy Trinity in Orthodoxy is done by showing the Three men (or Angels) who appeared to Abraham, and Abraham recognized them as God, by his veneration and addressing to them as one, even though they were three persons.

    It must be noted here, that this particular depiction has found its way into Several Orthodox Church Buildings as well, but this is purely due to ignorance. My point here was to show how even small change in doctrine, ethos, traditions and theology can lead to a continuous and accumulating degradation of the faith, as is clearly happening with the Catholic Church.

    In addition to the above, let me point out that in the Catholic Church we have several separations as well, perhaps not culturally or nationally expressed but nevertheless more significant than simply the national/cultural separation that exists in Orthodoxy.

    Orders such as the Jesuits, and elite church parts such as the Vatican it self, are really NO ACCESS areas for the common Catholics. In addition to that, this kind of separation is not just a practical matter, but there are serious indications and sometimes proof, that things are done differently in these parts and also more important political decisions take place in these parts, or even alternate/hidden motives exist.

    One part of the catholic church where hidden/alternate motives exist, is the Eastern Catholic Church, which simply impersonates the Orthodox Church, with the obvious goal (at least in respect to its existence as a whole) of infiltrating and gradually decomposing traditionally Orthodox Countries.

    One last comment on all of this, is the shameless attempts, statements, and activities of the Catholic Church Head to comment on worldly matters, introduce new commandments, favor Zionism and trying to stay politically correct. In the matter of Zionism in particular, in the Orthodox Church, there was and is ALWAYS a very good awareness of what Zionism is, what Judaism is all about, and how we are to view these deeply misguided fellow human beings.

    As a boy in the Orthodox Church, in a family that practiced and was not merely part of the culture, I remember that I was always exposed to information on what Zionism is, and needless to say without the racism that as now so readily ascribed to criticizing Zionism. This has led to a non racist, correct view of this matter, which involves no hatred of the Jewish people or any other nation, but rather a conscious awareness of what is happening.

    My personal experience, with lots of Catholics and lots all kinds of Protestants throughout the years (I have a very mixed background and I have lived in multiple countries), is that they either have a complete ignorance (or seriously distorted view) of the matter, or are blatantly pro-Zionist. This is off course in addition to carrying a whole host of warped doctrines and beliefs which as a whole cause them to have a completely distorted view of world events , Jews, Zionism and off course Christianity it self.

    It is important to note here, that when one quotes the Bible, they MUST in the least be aware of what translation they use, and also that whatever translation they use may have either/or omissions in meaning, completeness or the spirit of the original texts. By original texts I mean _exclusively_ the Greek version of the NT and the Septuagint, for reasons that are beyond the context of this post.

    Unfortunately its not easy, not practical, for anyone to learn the Greek that is used in Scripture, so the least any Christian can do, is to be absolutely aware that what they are reading (whether it is in English or any other language than the original) is a translation, which inevitably has lost some of the original.

    To close, this is I think one very important reason why Old Churches such as the Greek Orthodox Church, must keep its intactness. Not for cultural or other worldly reasons, but rather, to preserve the original Church and its holy traditions.

    Stav

  70. Ben May 13, 2009 @ 2:42 am

    No,there is no non-contradictory evidence that Peter was ever in Rome.

    I can say there is some specious writings alluding to him being in Rome if that helps.

    I’ll leave it to others to go over it.

  71. Cathy May 13, 2009 @ 3:19 am

    The Bones Of Peter
    by Dr. W. A. Criswell

    ——————————————————————————–

    Simon Peter is addressed by our Lord Jesus in the sixteenth chapter of Matthew in these words: “And I say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

    Because of this passage, there is a vast system of religion built upon Simon Peter. Three things in this ecclesiastical system are avowed about him.

    1. That Peter ruled the church.

    2. That Peter ruled the church in Rome.

    Jerome (d. 240 A.D.) declared that Peter, after being first bishop at Antioch, and after laboring in Pontus, Galatia, Asia, Cappadocia, and Bithynia, went to Rome in the second year of Claudius (about 42 A.D.) to oppose Simon Magus, and was bishop of that church for 25 years, finally being crucified head downward in the last year of Nero’s reign (67 A.D.) and was buried on the Vatican hill.

    3. That Peter’s tomb and his bones are under the high altar of St. Peter’s church in Rome.

    There is no intimation in the Scriptures that the words of our Saviour addressed to Simon Peter made him ruler and head of the church. In the Greek there is a play upon his name - “Thou art Petros (a stone) and upon this petra (a stratum of stone) I will build my church.” First Peter 2:5 says, “Ye also, as living stones, are built up a spiritual house.” First Corinthians 3:11 says, “For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid which is Jesus.” The meaning is self-evident. The foundation, “the petra,” upon which Christ will build His church is His deity, which Simon Peter has just confessed upon a revelation from the Father. The stones out of which Christ will erect His church are believing disciples, one of whom is Peter himself.

    The keys of the kingdom here given to Peter as a representative disciple, with the authority of binding and loosing, are given to all the disciples in Matthew 18:18 and in John 20:23.

    Peter in the Early Churches

    Was Peter ever the ruler of the church? Of any church any time, any place? Not that anybody knows of. The pastor and leader of the church at Jerusalem was James, the Lord’s brother (Acts 12:17; 15: 13-21; 21:18; Gal 2:9.) This Scriptural account of James is confirmed by Josephus in his Antiquities XX, 9,1, where James’ martyrdom is described. Josephus never heard of Simon Peter, but the Jewish historian knows all about the faithful pastor and leader of the Christian church in Jerusalem.

    Notice in Acts 8:14 that Peter is “sent” by the apostles along with John to Samaria. Peter is not doing the sending; somebody else is.

    Notice in Acts 15:14-21 that at the Jerusalem conference, after Peter made his speech and Paul and Barnabas made their speeches, it is James who delivers the final verdict.

    Was Peter Ever in Rome?

    The second avowal of the Roman hierarchy concerning Peter is that he was bishop at Rome from 42 A.D. to 67 A.D, when he was crucified under Nero. If Peter was in Rome during those years, then the New Testament cannot be relied upon. There is not the faintest, slightest historical foundation for the fiction that Peter ever saw the city of Rome.

    1. Paul was converted about 37 A.D. He says in the first chapter of Galatians (Gal. 1:13-18) that after his conversion he went into Arabia, “then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.” This takes us to 40 A.D., and Peter is still in Jerusalem.

    2. Sometime during those days Peter made his missionary journey through the western part of Judea, to Lydda, to Joppa, to Caesarea, and back to Jerusalem (Acts 9, 10, 11). Then came the imprisonment under Herod Agrippa I and the miraculous deliverance by the angel of the Lord (Acts 12). Peter then “went down from Judea to Caesarea and there abode” (Acts 12:19). Herod Agrippa died not long after these events (Acts 12:20-23). Josephus says that the death of Agrippa occurred in the fourth year of the reign of Claudius. This would be about 45 A.D., and Peter is still in Palestine.

    3. Paul writes in the second chapter of Galatians that fourteen years after his first visit to Jerusalem to visit Simon Peter he went again to see him. The first journey was 40 A.D.; fourteen years later brings us to 54 A.D., and Peter is still in Palestine.

    4. Peter returns the visit and goes to Antioch where Paul is working. This occasioned the famous interview between the two recorded in Galatians 2:11-14. Peter is still in the Orient, not in Rome.

    5. After 54 A.D., and after the Antioch visit, the Apostle Peter makes an extensive missionary journey or journeys throughout the Roman provinces of the East. On these missionary tours Peter takes his wife (I Cor. 9:5). They labor in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. So vast a work and so great a territory must have consumed several years. This would take us, therefore, to at least 60 A.D., and Peter and his wife are still not in Rome but in the East.

    6. In about 58 A.D. Paul wrote a letter to the church at Rome. In the last chapter of that epistle, Paul salutes twenty-seven persons, but he never mentions Simon Peter. If Peter where “governing” the church at Rome, it is most strange that Paul should never refer to him.

    Romans 1:13 shows that the church at Rome was a Gentile church. At the Jerusalem conference (Gal. 2:9), it was agreed that Peter should go to the Jews and Paul to the Gentiles.

    The gospel ministry of Paul was motivated by a great principle which he clearly repeats in Romans 15:20: “Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man’s foundation.” A like avowal is made in I Corinthians 10:15,16. Where no other apostle has been, there Paul wanted to go. Having written this plainly to the people at Rome, his desire to go to the Roman city would be inexplicable if Peter were already there, or had been there for years.

    7. Paul’s first Roman imprisonment took place about 60 A.D. to 64 A.D. from his prison the Apostle to the Gentiles wrote four letters - Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Philemon. In these letters he mentions many of his fellow Christians who are in the city, but he never once refers to Simon Peter.

    8. Paul’s second Roman imprisonment brought him martyrdom. This occurred about 67 A.D. Just before he died Paul wrote a letter to Timothy, our “II Timothy.” In that final letter the apostle mentions many people but plainly says that “only Luke is with me.” There is never a reference to Peter.

    We have gone throughout those years of 42 A.D. to 67 A.D., the years Peter is supposed to have been the prince and bishop and ruler of the church at Rome. There is not a suggestion anywhere that such a thing was true. Rather the New Testament clearly and plainly denies the fiction.

    Babylon and Rome

    In I Peter 5:13, Peter says, “The church that is at Babylon saluteth you.” Some suppose “Babylon” is a cryptic word for Rome.

    There is no evidence that Rome was ever called “Babylon” until after the Book of the Revelation was written. The Revelation was written about 95 A.D., many years after the death of Simon Peter. If I Peter 5:13 refers to Rome, then Simon Peter did not write the letter and we have a forgery in the Bible.

    Peter’s method and manner of writing are in no sense apocalyptic. He is direct and matter-of-fact. That this man Peter, plain of speech almost to bluntness, should interject into the midst of his personal explanations and final salutations such a mystical epithet, with no hint of what he means by it, is beyond credulity. Peter says the elect in Babylon send greetings to the Jews of the Dispersion in Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. “Babylon” is no more cryptic than “Pontus,” “Asia,” or the rest. He means what he says. His “Babylon” is the Babylon on the Euphrates. It is a part of that eastern world where Peter lived his life and did his work.

    Babylon in the time of Simon Peter was no longer a great world capital, but it was still inhabited by a colony of people, mostly Jews. Among those Hebrew friends he won many to Christ, and those Jewish Christians sent greetings to their fellow-Jewish Christians in Asia Minor where Peter had previously done a blessed missionary work.

    Unbiased historians and the Scriptural records indicate that Peter died and was buried either in Mesopotamia or Asia Minor. The Pope of Rome will be able to find plenty of bones beneath the Vatican hills, where Christians by the thousands were murdered and buried by pagan and papal persecutors back when Rome ruled the world. But these bones prove nothing except that the Roman hierarchy is frantic in its efforts to find something that will give a semblance of justification to their false claims that Peter was connected with the papal system.

    Peter was never in Rome. Nor was he ruler over any church. Nor did he have any keys to give to anybody else to hand down to others. He was a stone, one out of many with which God is building His spiritual house in earth and in heaven.
    http://www.mtc.org/bones_p.html

  72. Roan. May 13, 2009 @ 3:35 am

    No Linda, it was nowhere near Rome, although there is no exact location. If he were ever in Rome, it would be recorded in Scripture.The other answers after mine are in harmony with the best historical evidence that is not biased towards Roman Catholicism and its’ offshoots.

    That is, Mesopotamia or Asia Minor. If the foundation is God’s Word and then a look at all the historical writings it is clear that he was never in Rome at all. When the starting point is tradition and extrabiblical sources and pseudepigrapha with a token look at Scripture then anything goes.

  73. Michael K. May 13, 2009 @ 3:43 am

    Dear Gill,

    I spoke about the nature of God; a trinity made of Father, Son who is the true Messiah, and Holy Spirit. I pointed out that God has a certain character, by which we can know Him, namely that he loves the meek who cleave to the Truth, and hates the arrogant and cruel. You know the Bible says as much.

    But did you also know that using the name of Christ Jesus doesn’t make anyone less of a Talmudic Jew, if that’s what he really is? The Anti-Christ would “deceive the elect.” Does he do this by putting on a yarmulke and running around preaching Lucifer?

    There is a verbal formula for what an Orthodox Christian believes, but this hasn’t stopped the devil yet.

    On the other hand, God is universal. In fact, you don’t have to be a Christian to go to heaven, even though the Son will no doubt judge your soul himself. Christianity is just the teaching which should guide you to Him directly. It doesn’t protect you from your own wickedness to go around being part of the religious ‘in-group.’ This is an Orthodox truth, that God is universal and appears to all men through their moral faculties.

    It is not just Jews in their own person that will ever really ruin the world, it is Christians becoming Jews inside while claiming to be the exclusive body of Christ on the outside that has the capacity to do this. Elitist, separatist, racist stiff-necked and wrathful, this is the mood of evil. Anti-christ; it doesn’t just mean against Christ, it means impostor Christ.

    I believe that from the time America might become ‘God’s Kingdom on Earth’ , Brother Kapner would have about one last year as a free man. Christians taking radical political power as Christians is equivalent to Jews taking it as Jews. The true Spirit of God leads, it doesn’t push.

  74. Binnenhoff May 13, 2009 @ 6:53 am

    Hoff

    Exactly..there are even jews who dresse as Arabs, then terrorize everything and blame the Arabs.

    Like Nazis at holocaust memorial in Austria, they protest against holocaust memorial to make this world headline.

    See onother reason that good is for jews always jews jews

    http://judicial-inc.biz/95where_was_god.htm

  75. Mariano May 13, 2009 @ 7:21 am

    Dear Lynda,

    The problem with the Roman Catholic Church placing the apostle Peter in Rome is its huge interest in proving that he was indeed the “first Pope” and that he began this non Scritural office in that city.

    I am not denying that Peter was once in Rome, but I seriously doubt him being the overseer (episkopos = bishop) of that city. If that had been the case, Paul wouldn´t have go there to preach the Gospel, for his politics were not to superimpose the work of others.

    Beware of the traditions of men!

  76. Fr. Joseph May 13, 2009 @ 7:49 am

    Stop the non-sense.

    Ss. Peter and Paul were BOTH martyred in Rome. End of argument.

    http://www.fisheaters.com/eusebius.html

    For those who ardently wish to deny the historical record of Eusebius, you might as well remain CONSISTENT and deny that current U.S. history books and historical documents give evidence that there were such people by the name of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln who both were once alive and DIED here in the United States of America!

    A summary of the life of St. Peter

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11744a.htm#IV

    And all this gobbledy-gook about Mystery Babylon and what not has nothing to do with advancing a SOLUTION to our World’s current manifold problems, plight and danger of becoming engulfed in a thermonuclear Third World War.

    Enough NAVEL-GAZING!

    - Fr. Joseph

  77. Maria May 13, 2009 @ 10:22 am

    Dear Stav:

    Thanks for your explanation..I do not think it is inappropriate for the Pope to comment on world affairs..I do think the Catholic Church has done a great deal in Poland and Russia to end communism, which I think is positive, as well as work done in the Phillipines, Africa and many other countries to liberate populations seeking self sufficiency.

    I never hear the Orthodox church leaders commenting on world affairs..I wish they would because I’d like to know what they think.. Despite having second maternal cousins who belong to the Russian Orthodox Church….I don’t know a great deal about it, except from this website.

    It does seem to me, though, that if you are of a nationality that is not Russian, Greek, Albanian, etc… and want to be an Orthodox Christian where do you go for plurality?

    Again, I do believe that is a clear advantage of the Catholic Church–the embracement of universality..

    Something the Orthodox should know is that the Catholic Church, ultimately, is the faith of Jesus Christ..and people running any Church institution, Catholic, Orthodox and otherwise, are human beings themselves and all fall short of the glory of God except for Jesus Christ.

    Of course, that’s not a reason not to have structure because then nothing would be accomplished.

    I do feel that with all of its believers Christianity is diluted and Zionism does appear to be an obvious catalyst though, of course, people do fall off on their own..

    I also feel that despite the differences in Christian denominations.. there are many bridges that could be built to unify Christianity to the degree possible so that it can have a positive, profound impact on society at large.

    I do not agree, with Michael K, that unification within Christianity must somehow mean the rise of fascism and that one should slavishly adopt Michael K’s views …he ignores the fact that moderates can and do rule. Christians are supposed to evangelize and spread the “Good News.” They are commanded to do that, so when Michael K objects — it does cast doubt on whether he is a Christian or a Zionist or somewhere in the twilight zone.

    Unity is a very positive thing–provided you unite on things that are agreed and agree to disagree on things you don’t..this is how consensus is built and how things get accomplished in the world.

  78. KathJuliane May 13, 2009 @ 10:25 am

    Some time after Alexander’s conquest, the Euphrates River changed course to about 10 miles east of the city of Babylon, and the irrigation systems declined from neglect. By the 2nd c. BC, Babylon proper was being used as a Parthian king’s game preserve. The residents and the enormous wealth of the city relocated about 60 miles north to Baghdad.

    The province of Babylonia, or Mesopotamia grew to be an autonomous Jewish province, which later served as a football between Rome and the Parthian Empire, and a chronic thorn in the side for the Caesars as the Jews had formed a Jerusalem-Babylonian-Alexandrian economic, commercial, trade and political power axis.

    Alexandria was a seaport city, so Alexandrian Jewry had a considerable monopoly on Mediterranean shipping. In general, the Hellenic Jews of Alexandrian Greco-Roman culture were more “pro-Roman”, and despised by the Pharisees, who were culturally Babylonian/Hellenic-Persian, Aramaic was the dominant tongue, and so “pro-Parthian”.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_Jewry
    “From the Babylonian period to the rise of the Islamic caliphate, the Jewish community of Babylon thrived as the center of Jewish learning. The Mongol invasion and Islamic discrimination in the Middle Ages led to its decline. Under the Ottoman Empire, the Jews of Iraq fared better. The community established modern schools in the second-half of the 19th century.

    The earliest accounts of the Jews exiled to Babylonia are furnished only by the scanty details of the Bible; certain not quite reliable sources seek to supply this deficiency from the realms of legend and tradition. Thus, the so-called “Small Chronicle” (Seder ‘Olam Zuṭṭa) endeavors to preserve historic continuity by providing a genealogy of the Princes of the Exile (”Reshe Galuta”) back to King Jeconiah; indeed, Jeconiah himself is made a Prince of the Exile.

    [Returnees that came back with Ezra and Nehemiah were called “sons of the exile”, were very wealthy, sophisticated, highly educated, and elitist. Scripture indicates that these Babylonian Jews displaced the indigenous Palestinian Jews from Jerusalem, and appear to have set themselves up as a super-caste, which finally morphed into Phariseeism and developed the Oral Torah.

    Rabbinic Judaism is credited by Jewish scholars to mark its origins to Babylon, while the peripheral tribes in Galilee, Samaria, rural Judea and a substantial portion of the Levites and the common priesthood adhered to Written Torah as being divinely inspired. The Talmud records that the Jerusalemites prided themselves on having a different dialect of Aramaic, which would have had a Chaldean base. Nehemiah as governor also records that these returnees exploited their own poorer, Palestinian kinsmen. The Talmud expresses pride in Babylonian Jewry’s racial purity over and above even that of pious and virtuous Palestinian Jewry with impeccible pedigrees.]

    The “Small Chronicle’s” statement, that Zerubbabel returned to Judea in the Greek period, can not, of course, be regarded as historical. Only this much can be considered as certain; viz., that the descendants of the Davidic house occupied an exalted position among their brethren in Babylonia, as, at that period, in Palestine likewise. At the period of the revolt of the Maccabees, these Judean descendants of the royal house had emigrated to Babylonia. [The Maccabee or Hasmonean Dynasty was of the Aaronic priestly clan, not of the Davidic house.]

    It was only with Alexander the Great’s campaign that accurate information concerning the Jews in the East reached the western world. Alexander’s army contained numerous Jews who refused, from religious scruples, to take part in the reconstruction of the destroyed Belus temple in Babylon. The accession of Seleucus Nicator, 312 B.C., to whose extensive empire Babylonia belonged, was accepted by the Jews and Syrians for many centuries as the commencement of a new era for reckoning time, called “minyan sheṭarot,” æra contractuum, or era of contracts, which era was also officially adopted by the Parthians.

    This so-called “Greek” era survived in the Orient long after it had been abolished in the West. Nicator’s foundation of a city, Seleucia, on the Tigris is mentioned by the Rabbis (Midr. The. ix. 8); while both the “Large” and the “Small Chronicle” contain references to him.

    The important victory which the Jews are said to have gained over the Galatians in Babylonia (II Macc. viii. 20) must have happened under Seleucus Callinicus or under Antiochus III. The last-named settled a large number of Babylonian Jews as colonists in his western dominions, with the view of checking certain revolutionary tendencies disturbing those lands.

    Mithridates (174-136) subjugated, about the year 160, the province of Babylonia, and thus the Jews for four centuries came under Parthian domination. Jewish sources contain no mention of Parthian influence; the very name “Parthian” does not occur, unless indeed “Parthian” is meant by “Persian,” which occurs now and then. [It is also thought that the root of “Pharisee” may have originally meant ‘Persian’ as well as ‘Purist’.]

    …In 40 B.C. the Jewish puppet-king, Hyrcanus II., fell into the hands of the Parthians, who, according to their custom, cut off his ears in order to render him unfit for rulership. The Jews of Babylonia, it seems, had the intention of founding a high-priesthood for the exiled Hyrcanus, which they would have made quite independent of Palestine.

    But the reverse was to come about: the Palestinians received a Babylonian, Ananel by name, as their high priest which indicates the importance enjoyed by the Jews of Babylonia. Still in religious matters the Babylonians, as indeed the whole diaspora, were in many regards dependent upon Palestine. They went on pilgrimages to Jerusalem for the festivals.

    [Hillel the Babylonian, and purported to be a Davidic prince, was a famous Rabbi in Jerusalem, and among the Pharisees his school, and that of Shammai which had a more zealot, nationalist foundation, were the two chief schools in Jerusalem in our Lord’s day. It was the school of Hillel that was to survive the downfall of Jerusalem, and become Rabbinic Judaism of the Palestinian and Babylonian Talmuds.]

    How free a hand the Parthians permitted the Jews is perhaps best illustrated by the rise of the little Jewish robber-state in Nehardea. Still more remarkable is the conversion of the king of Adiabene to Judaism. These instances show not only the tolerance, but the weakness of the Parthian kings. [Babylonian Jewry had virtually displaced the native Semitic Babylonians, Assyrians, etc. of Mesopotamia, which as an economic hub still controlled virtually all trade routes in Asia. They were enormously powerful and influential, and it is recorded in both Jewish and Persian histories that Jewish women married into the Persian and Parthian royal houses.]

    The Babylonian Jews wanted to fight in common cause with their Palestinian brethren against Vespasian; but it was not until the Romans waged war under Trajan against Parthia that they made their hatred felt; so that it was in a great measure owing to the revolt of the Babylonian Jews that the Romans did not become masters of Babylonia too.

    Philo speaks of the large number of Jews resident in that country, a population which was no doubt considerably swelled by new immigrants after the destruction of Jerusalem.

    Accustomed in Jerusalem from early times to look to the east for help, and aware, as the Roman procurator Petronius was, that the Jews of Babylon could render effectual assistance, Babylonia became with the fall of Jerusalem the very bulwark of Judaism.

    The collapse of the Bar Kochba revolt no doubt added to the number of Jewish refugees in Babylon. In the continuous struggles between the Parthians and the Romans, the Jews had every reason to hate the Romans, the destroyers of their sanctuary, and to side with the Parthians, their protectors. Probably it was recognition of services thus rendered by the Jews of Babylonia, and by the Davidic house especially, that induced the Parthian kings to elevate the princes of the Exile, who till then had been little more than mere collectors of revenue, to the dignity of real princes, called Resh Galuta.

    After the fall of Jerusalem, Babylon would become the focus of Judaism for more than a thousand years. The rabbi Abba Arika, afterward called simply Rab, was a key figure in maintaining Judaism after the destruction of Jerusalem. Rab left Palestine to return to his Babylonian home, the year of which has been accurately recorded (530 of the Seleucidan, or 219 of the common era), marks an epoch; for from it dates the beginning of a new movement in Babylonian Judaism—namely, the initiation of the dominant rôle which the Babylonian Academies played for several centuries.”

  79. apollonian May 13, 2009 @ 1:22 pm

    Keep Things Simple And Concrete For Best Information Of Dear People
    (Apollonian, 13 May 09)

    I see there continues excellent Christian dialectic here on Bro. Kapner’s neato blog. But I’d like to remind fellow Christians that ultimately we have only New Testament (NT) to rely upon for the real word, hence spirit of Christ who demonstrates most sublime reason, which reason is how God expects us to guide ourselves.

    And such brilliant reason and reasoning is what’s most and best demonstrated, I submit, by means of Christ’s expo at Gosp.s MARK 12:29-31 and MATT 22:37-9, (a) love, hence know and understand, God, and (b) do justice–very simple, eh?–what a gift fm dear Lord, Christ.

    And Christ, in most philosophical of all Gospels, JOHN, defines that great and lonely Human conundrum and struggle for TRUTH–as against sublimely organized Jew (Talmudic, not just Zionist) lies and conspiracy. Note then Christ thus establishes a tremendous hint for us: OBJECTIVITY (hence Aristotle), the necessary criterion of such TRUTH.

    Thus remember Talmudists are actually LEADERS of those conspiratorial subjectivists who, for thematic example, presently run the ultimate fraud, that of COUNTERFEITING the world’s money supplies (see RealityZone.com and TheMoneyMasters.com for expo/ref. on US Federal Reserve Bank [Fed] fraud), by which such Talmudists and subjectivists control and manipulate so much of EVERYTHING and everyone such and much as it’s possible.

    For never forget: (a) lies are deliberate subjectivistic substitutes for objective reality. (b) Lying is being deliberately subjectivistic, pretending to being objective. (c) And a liar is a deliberate subjectivist pretending to being objective.

    Thus greatest Christian ethic is HONESTY, the only appropriate mentality and virtue for TRUTH, the highest Christian value.

    How then do these satanic, Talmudic subjectivists try and succeed so well in over-throwing TRUTH?–by means of “moralism” (Pharisaism)–especially Pelagianism by which, for example, Honesty is overthrown by “good-evil” (subjectivism) conceit/presumption/fallacy/delusion and HERESY.

    Thus subjectivists tell us it’s okay to lie and commit fraud–like COUNTERFEITING, this counterfeiting fraud now the foundation of ZOG-MAMMON empire-of-lies where truth is treason and “hatred.”

    So what then is it we must do most and best of all as Christians?–it is to bring that liberating TRUTH (information) to people (JOHN 8:32).

    And now how can that information best be done?–thus we see how people presently fail to understand that basic Fed COUNTERFEITING fraud, the poor people confused by such ABSTRACTIONS as “inflation” which so few understand–and “usury” distraction which rather diverts attention to charging of interest which is irrelevant to much more destructive and pertinent counterfeiting.

    So comrades in Christ and truth, remember that a simple CONCRETE word, like “COUNTERFEITING,” is understandable EVEN BY CHILDREN, and so that’s how we must address our dear people–so they can learn to understand that necessary info which will save their and our lives.

    For do not doubt when and if US Dollar collapses many, many people are going to die, good comrades.

    And note then the next step in logic is thereupon so much EASIER–from counterfeiting to CONSPIRACY–everyone can and will understand it.

    So who, again, are we up against?–it isn’t difficult or ABSTRACT–we’re up against crass, stinking CRIMINALS and frauds (liars) who are running a giant COUNTERFEITING game/racket/scam against us and all the volk.

    Counterfeiting is what’s behind everything else. For that’s where they get all their practical, worldly power–counterfeited money, pure and simple–it’s NOT “rocket-science.”

    So that’s how we soldiers of Christ have to play things–by keeping things simple and CONCRETE for poor, dear people to understand. Don’t be abstract or so intellectual and profound that our fellows cannot follow or grasp–BE CONCRETE so even a child understands, again. “It’s counterfeiting, stupid.”

    CONCLUSION: We’re up against a gang of COUNTERFEITERS and crass criminals, that’s all. Then people will have that necessary information by which they and we can next figure out what to do. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonian

  80. Karen May 13, 2009 @ 1:34 pm

    Iranian TV: Swine Flu - A Zionist/American Conspiracy

    http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD235209

  81. Fr. John May 13, 2009 @ 1:42 pm

    “And this especially, (which will mean the death of the ‘Jewish’ state)…”

    From your mouth to God’s ears, as they say…

  82. Maria May 13, 2009 @ 2:10 pm

    How should Christians respond to Zionists?

    1. I’d like to see Stav expound on this:

    Zionism in particular, in the Orthodox Church, there was and is ALWAYS a very good awareness of what Zionism is, what Judaism is all about, and how we are to view these deeply misguided fellow human beings.

    Please explain..I’m not sure the Catholic Church does the best job here..

    As a boy in the Orthodox Church, in a family that practiced and was not merely part of the culture, I remember that I was always exposed to information on what Zionism is, and needless to say without the racism that as now so readily ascribed to criticizing Zionism. This has led to a non racist, correct view of this matter, which involves no hatred of the Jewish people or any other nation, but rather a conscious awareness of what is happening.

    And Appollonian expound on:

    So what then is it we must do most and best of all as Christians?–it is to bring that liberating TRUTH (information) to people (JOHN 8:32).

    How do you bring the liberating truth to a Zionist?

  83. Enya May 13, 2009 @ 2:28 pm

    Lynda, thank you for your inquiry and if you are interested in Truth, please go to www.bereanbeacon.org or remnantofgod.org, we have been deceived for a very long time.

    Peter was not present in Rome at the time the 1st Christain Church was started!!! Paul was!!

    The Church did not start listing Peter as the 1st Pope, until a few hundred years after Paul started the 1st Christain Church in Rome!!!

    Peter did not come to Rome until after Paul’s death.

    Bibles have been revised to suit dogmas!!!

  84. KathJuliane May 13, 2009 @ 4:11 pm

    Dear Father Joseph,

    Speaking nonsense, indeed. Such RCC formal ecclesiastical terms as “private revelation” and “worthy of belief” concerning “approved” apparitions means that such findings by Catholic hierarchy carries no dogmatic force of obligation on the ordinary Catholic believer, as that is in the realm of “human faith”. If this is true for Catholic believers under Papal authority, how much more so is it for Christians who are not members of the RCC?

    “67: Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private revelations”, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the magisterium of the Church, the ~sensus fidelium~ knows how to discern and welcome these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

    Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such revelations.” –Cathechism of the RCC, 1994.

    In the above context, “magisterium” is with a small “m”, therefore generically meaning “teaching authority of the entire Church to preach the Gospel to the world, and not meaning the formal “Magisterium” office as papally defined and decreed in the 19th century, and also spelled out in the Cathechism of the RCC.

    As the RCC defines itself as the “Post-Concillar Church”, meaning after the Seven Ecumenical Councils of the undivided Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church prior to the 11th century, which the Orthodox Church is dogmatically bound by and so remains the ancient and historical “Concillar Church”, thus far in the Cathecism the above statement is in in harmony with Orthodox “patristic mind of the Church” and the Apostolic “deposit of faith”.

    Such Post-Concillar dogmatic rulings on such matters as the office of the “Magisterium” and related “papal supremacy” and “infallibility” issues are not relevant to Orthodoxy, as this was unilaterally ruled in the 19th century by the Papacy, and not a matter that was ever enacted by the Seven Ecumenical Councils of the undivided Church and the Pentarchy prior to the 11th century, or unilaterally enacted by the RCC post-Schism.

    And since it is a matter of “human faith” individually and personally, the point still remains, where do you obtain your authority about your own personal belief in to keep pushing the “Fatima Consecration” on non-Catholics, especially 250 million Orthodox Christians?

    That there have been a number of historically approved apparitions believed to be Mary and authentic miracles, especially from the period of the undivided Church, and certainly do continue today in both east and west. But it still does not preclude that there can also be demonic imposters and spiritual counterfeits that have, and could deceive whole groups of people as well as individuals throughout the sometimes very painful history of the undivided Church.

  85. admin May 13, 2009 @ 4:12 pm

    Hi Everybody,

    I am on my 2nd day in NYC for Street Evangelism.

    Last nite in Times Sq the youth mobbed me and showed how hungry they are for Christ.

    Today I was in Wall St and in Times Sq, Everything is going great!

    Please keep me in your prayers… they’re working! Big time! +BN

  86. KathJuliane May 13, 2009 @ 4:35 pm

    Father Joseph, from your own unimpeachable RCC resources under Catholic discipline, including the Catholic University of Dayton, EWTN, the 1994 Cathechism of the Roman Catholic Church, and Pope Gregory XIV, clearly supports what this writer has presented.

    http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/resources/aprtable.html
    [RC] Church’s Approach

    “The Roman Catholic Church has prudently been cautious to approve, disapprove or condemn reported apparitions.” In general, studied apparitions are classed as “not worthy of belief,” “not contrary to the Faith,” or “worthy of belief.” The message of an approved apparition cannot have any content that is contrary to the teachings of the Church.

    Supernatural Character

    Prior to any classification, the local bishop appoints a committee to take testimony, investigate, study, and report its findings to the local bishop. On our Web page directory of Marian apparitions, we have two columns which pertain to the church’s rulings for each apparition that we include in our list. One column pertains to the “supernatural character” of the apparitions. The approval of an apparition’s supernatural character means that the case cannot be explained away due to an impediment in the visionary, nor as fraud, nor as a natural phenomenon, nor of demonic origin.

    The Mary Page’s Classification

    On our Web site’s apparition directory, the column titled “Approval of Supernatural Character” is marked either “yes,” “negative decision,” or “no decision” depending upon what action the local bishop has taken for the specific apparition. A “yes” denotes that the bishop has concluded the apparition’s character is supernatural. A “negative” decision denotes that there is some problem which the bishop has identified in the apparition and concluded that it does not have a supernatural character. A “no decision” is used to denote one of two possibilities.

    In one scenario, the bishop is either studying the case or he has studied the case, but the decision cannot be made until further analysis is completed. A second possibility, is that the Church has never begun to study the reported apparition.

    Faith Expression

    Our Web page directory for Marian apparition also has a column titled “Approval of faith expression (prayer, devotion) at site.” This column is marked with a “yes” for cases where the local bishop has decided to encourage prayer and devotion at the site of a Marian apparition. Decisions about “faith expression” are made before the supernatural character of an apparition is decided upon. If the bishop should ever rule that the specific apparition is not of supernatural character, then of course, there would no longer be any devotion that is approved at that site.

    Ecclesial Decisions

    If the Church makes a negative ruling about a particular apparition, we are not to believe in that apparition. If the bishop makes a positive ruling about an apparition, we are not bound to assent to the apparition, but we cannot berate the messages nor the apparition once the Church declares it valid. The reader will find that in the majority of cases, the Church has neither taken action, nor made a final decision.

    Statistical Results

    A statistical analysis of the Marian apparition directory reveals the following results. During the twentieth century, there have been 386 cases of Marian apparitions. The Church has made “no decision” about the supernatural character regarding 299 of the 386 cases. The Church has made a “negative decision” about the supernatural character in seventy-nine of the 386 cases.

    Out of the 386 apparitions, the Church has decided that “yes” there is a supernatural character only in eight cases: Fatima (Portugal), Beauraing (Belgium), Banneux (Belgium), Akita (Japan), Syracuse (Italy), Zeitoun (Egypt), Manila (Philippines) (according to some sources), and Betania (Venezuela).

    Local bishops have approved of the faith expression at the sites where these eight apparitions occurred. Besides the eight approved apparitions, there have been eleven (out of the 386 apparitions) which have not been approved with a “supernatural character,” but which have received a “yes” to indicate the local bishop’s “approval of faith expression (prayer and devotion) at the site.”

    http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/maryd7.htm
    “The [RC] Church does not require belief in any apparition or other private revelation. However, she does exercise her maternal judgment for the protection of the faithful in declaring some apparitions to be inauthentic, others to be “worthy of belief.”

    Investigations into alleged apparitions are rigorous. The three which follow have been judged worthy of belief, and devotions related to them have been encouraged by the truth. Each has miracles associated with it which are unexplainable by the best scientists in the world, as testimony to its authenticity.”

    Any degree of official hierarchial approval does not oblige the Roman Catholic faithful to accept a Marian revelation, since it never directly affects the public revelation contained in the deposit of faith. Authentic private revelation, therefore, is normally given the assent of “human faith” based on prudential discernment, but not “divine faith” appropriate for public revelation.”

    As Pope Benedict XIV stated:
    “Even though many of these revelations have been approved, we cannot and ought not give them the assent of divine faith, but only that of human faith, according to the dictates of prudence whenever these dictates enable us to decide that they are probable and worthy of pious credence.”

    Wise words indeed.

  87. Mariano May 13, 2009 @ 4:59 pm

    Presupposition 2. That Peter went to Rome and was the first bishop in Rome

    The Scripture is utterly silent about the Apostle Peter going to Rome. His visits to Samaria, Lydda, Joppa, Caesarea and Antioch were carefully recorded. But there is simply no mention made of his going to Rome, which is essential to establish the Roman Catholic position.

    Certainly the Holy Spirit would not have passed over an event so significant and essential. In his letter to the Romans the Apostle Paul offers no salutation to Peter, as he greets many in the Church at Rome.

    The same Apostle Paul, being at Rome in the reign of Emperor Nero, never once mentions Peter in any of his letters written from Rome to the churches and to Timothy, although he does remember very many others who were with him in the city. While these two Roman Catholic presuppositions are conjectural, they are not the fabric on which faith is based, which is the Written Word of the Lord. The second presupposition of the Roman Catholic Church is therefore a deception, pure and simple.

    Rest of the article readable at
    http://web.archive.org/web/20050410115029/www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/papacy2_claim_keys_peter.htm

  88. Michael K. May 13, 2009 @ 5:24 pm

    Dear Maria,

    Please understand that when I say-

    “Christians taking radical political power.”

    I mean it not in the sense you seem to, but in a different sense which connotes seizing power in a revolutionary sense, not in a conventional one.

    I want us Christians to unite, but I want it to occur as a Church, not as a State. Unity in the Church may lawfully move the state. However, Christian Zionism in all its forms seems to teach its people that Republics are Commie trash and need to be replaced with downwardly authoritative Theocracies. Do you not see this?

    And furthermore, Christian Zionism isn’t limited to just backwoods Protestant Covenanters or New Age Evangelical mega-churches. It seems to have some grip on the Catholic and Orthodox diaspora too.

    I find it unbelievable that all the economic turmoil that has been building since Reagan and Carter has to come to a boil on the shift of the first and only ‘black’ Jewish president of the United States. I find it unbelievable that this is any coincidence. People will associate all the bad stuff with his face.

    How perfect if you want to convince people that representative republics are Commie Jew Babylons, and that apes and mud-people have no business governing themselves. Yes, what we are being conditioned to call out for is a return to ‘conservative’ values like “The Divine Right of Kings,” and mystical knightly militarism, of course. Time to “kill ‘em all an let God sort ‘em out,” the Ranger motto. Barf.

  89. Joanne May 13, 2009 @ 8:18 pm

    @Dear Michael K.

    Agree and your comments are based on Truth.

    Watch unto Prayer is an excellent website. Well written articles. Easy for any Christian to understand and discern.

    Incredible how this website explains God’s plan and satan’s counterfeit duplication. What an eye opener!!

    Sincerely in Christ,

    Joanne

  90. KathJuliane May 13, 2009 @ 10:44 pm

    Greetings in the Lord Jesus, and please forgive me, a sinner and very cranky Christian.

    Setting aside our inter-Christian differences and good active, thinking ferment for the moment, this is worth reading for all Christians, simply to get a grasp of the depth of contempt for ALL Christians inherent in Rabbinic Judaism and within in Israhell, and the insatiable ego of “the Jewish Zionist Zealots”.

    Considering the stature and personage of the Pope, who as a world figure, does symbolize Christianity in the MSM, and certainly for the suffering Palestinian Christian minority stands for something, basically the Jews have told the Pope he has no business in the least degree having any kind of consideration for Palestinians and/or Christians.

    This article, after all of Pope Benedict’s public efforts at friendship, moderate-mindedness and reconciliation between “the Christian” and “the Jew”, only proves that no matter how hard someone tries not to be an “anti-semite”, that mental illness is still a Jewish disease; “the Talmudic Jew” is still a rude, crude racist/religious bigot, and “appeasement” means “my way or the highway, GTFOutta here, ya bum”. Zionism is spiritual insanity fueled by holocaustmania.

    How in the great heavens is it possible to attempt to reconcile in “peace and love” with these monstrous and murderous people who believe it a religious duty to hate, “never forget and never forgive”, to destroy and defile everything that is held sacred and cherished by others than the almighty Jewish obnoxes, enabled by apostate Christian Zionists?

    (And, Fr. Joseph, I do have considerable personal respect and love for the dignity of the Popes and the Catholic Christian faithful despite polemical differences and other doctrinal issues concerning Church order.)

    Courtesy of our Christian-Zionist acquaintences:

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=97876

    Rabbi to pope: Go split Rome
    Pontiff slammed for comments in support of Palestinian state
    Posted: May 12, 2009
    2:24 pm Eastern
    By Aaron Klein
    © 2009 WorldNetDaily

    JERUSALEM – If Pope Benedict XVI so fervently supports a Palestinian state – which would split sections of Israel – he also should divide Rome, charged the leader of a coalition of more than 350 Israeli rabbinic leaders and pulpit rabbis.

    “I was shocked to hear that the first thing the pope had to say when he landed in Israel was that the Holy Land must be divided to make room for a Palestinian state,” said Joseph Gerlitzky, rabbi of central Tel Aviv and chairman of the Rabbinical Congress for Peace, which includes some of Israel’s most prominent Jewish leaders.

    “I suggest that he divide Rome. The Holy Land was promised to the Jewish people and absolutely no human being on this earth has a right to relinquish even one inch of this land,” Gerlitzky stated.

    Gerlitzky made the remarks at a speech today commemorating the Jewish festive day of Lag Ba’Omer, which is about the mid-way point between Passover and the day on which the Jews were said to have received the Torah.

    In his opening comments after disembarking at Israel’s international airport yesterday, Benedict called for the creation of a Palestinian state with the hope that Israelis and Palestinians “may live in peace in a homeland of their own within secure and internationally recognized borders.”

    Gerlitzky’s comments were just a taste of the criticism directed at the pope from Israeli lawmakers and religious leaders here, some of whom were disappointed with segments of Benedict’s closely scrutinized visit to the Holy Land.

    The pontiff’s speech yesterday at Jerusalem’s famed Holocaust Memorial Museum has been slammed, largely for stopping short of an apology on behalf of the Catholic Church, which historians charge could have done more to save European Jews during the Holocaust. The pope’s speech did not once mention “Nazis” or “murder.”

    Benedict came under fire from the Jewish world earlier this year for lifting the excommunication of a bishop who had denied the Holocaust.
    Israeli newspapers today were filled with criticism.

    “One would have expected the Vatican’s cardinals to prepare a more intelligent text for their boss,” one columnist, Tom Segev, wrote.

    Knesset Speaker Reuven Rivlin said in a radio interview the Vatican and its German-born pope had “a lot to ask forgiveness from our people for.”

    “And he is also a German, whose country and people have asked forgiveness. But he himself comes and speaks to us like a historian, as an observer, as a man who expresses his opinion about things that should never happen, and he was – what can you do? – a part of them.”

    “If we let this go, in the end they’ll say, ‘the Jewish people can manage,’” Rivlin said.
    Rivlin said of the speech that “everything that we feared came to fruition.”

    “I came to the memorial not only to hear historical descriptions or about the established fact of the Holocaust. I came as a Jew, hoping to hear an apology and a request for forgiveness from those who caused our tragedy, and among them, the Germans and the church. But to my sadness, I did not hear any such thing,” he said.

    “The visit to Yad Vashem (Holocaust Museum) does not constitute an expression of regret as such,” Rvilin added. “The eyes of Jews across the world, and of the nation in Israel, were directed here, in anticipation of hearing honest communion – personal and determined – regarding the Holocaust of their people. And we heard nothing of the sort.”
    Holocaust Museum chairman Avner Shalev told the Jerusalem Post there was “certain restraint” in the pontiff’s speech, which he labeled a “missed opportunity.”

    “I did not expect an apology, but we expected more,” he said. “This is certainly no historic landmark.”

    Benedict began his speech stating, “I have come to stand in silence before the monument erected to honor the millions of Jews killed in the horrific tragedy of the Shoah.”

    He continued: “They lost their lives, but they will never lose their names. These are indelibly etched in the hearts of their loved ones, their surviving fellow prisoners, and all those determined never to allow such an atrocity to disgrace mankind again.

    “I reaffirm – like my predecessors – that the church is committed to praying and working tirelessly to ensure that hatred will never reign in the hearts of men again,” he said.
    “As we stand here in silence, their cry still echoes in our hearts. It is a cry raised against every act of injustice and violence. It is a perpetual reproach against the spilling of innocent blood,” he said.

    “I am deeply grateful to God and to you for the opportunity to stand here in silence: a silence to remember, a silence to pray, a silence to hope,” the pope concluded.
    The Vatican today defended the pope.

    Spokesman Rev. Federico Lombardi told reporters that Benedict had mentioned his German roots previously, specifically when visiting a synagogue in Cologne, Germany, in 2005 and at the Auschwitz death camp in Poland the following year.

    “He can’t mention everything every time he speaks,” Lombardi told reporters in Jerusalem.

  91. Hoff May 14, 2009 @ 2:03 am

    “Texe Marrs on Jeff Rense Feb 12 2009 pt 1/4″

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DPbCxditLk&feature=channel_page

  92. Hoff May 14, 2009 @ 2:20 am

    The pope and the jews - cartoon soooooo spot on.

    http://zionistgoldreport.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/cartoon_554262a.jpg?w=510&h=379

  93. jgalindes May 14, 2009 @ 2:56 am

    I believe that some in this thread will add Mel in their prayers.

    I guess he deserves our love and respect.

    http://www.kplr11.com/news/kplr-mel-gibson-st-louis-042309,0,6227038.story

  94. jgalindes May 14, 2009 @ 3:26 am

    And regarding the Pope and his visit to Israel,please read this article.

    http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2009/05/13/silent-as-death-catholic-church-muzzled-on-israeli-butchery-of-palestinians-with-bp-williamson-controversy/

    …”Although carefully avoiding a repeat of the disaster he wrought in Regensburg several years ago when he described Islam as an inherently violent religion, nevertheless he made sure to elucidate the fact that the Church stands firmly in Israel’s camp and will not use an ounce of her formidable voice in speak out against the injustices that have and continue to fall upon the real Semites in the region, meaning the innocent men, women and children in Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon, Iraq or elsewhere.

    In the meantime, he assiduously avoided visiting Gaza or talking about the recent purposeful carnage taking place there by Israel. No mention of the women and children deliberately incinerated with Phosphorus bombs or the gunning down of hands-held-high families as they exited their homes upon orders of the IDF…

  95. Fr. Joseph May 14, 2009 @ 7:24 am

    Fatima is a “Private” revelation. The people of the World don’t have to believe it.

    This is “Private”?
    http://www.todayscatholicworld.com/miracle-fatima.jpg

    This is “Private”?
    http://farm1.static.flickr.com/165/395241158_46479dc968_m.jpg

    Well then, let’s at least attempt to stay CONSISTENT in our religious beliefs and outlooks then, shall we?

    This is “Private” Revelation, right???

    http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/073LKX3rHd97/610x.jpg

    - Fr. Joseph

  96. apollonian May 14, 2009 @ 7:26 am

    “And Appollonian expound on:

    “So what then is it we must do most and best of all as Christians?–it is to bring that liberating TRUTH (information) to people (JOHN 8:32).

    “How do you bring the liberating truth to a Zionist?” -Maria, May 13, 2009 @ 2:10 pm

    * * * * *

    Proper Task Is Defense Of Christendom–NOT “Bringing Truth” To Liars And Anti-Christs
    (Apollonian, 14 May 09)

    “Maria,” I’m afraid u may well have some serious thinking to do about ur pre-conceptions or premises for ur rather strange thought as u express so problematically. But I’ll respond best I can to ur forthright query regarding “zionists.”

    “Think not I came to bring peace; rather I come to bring a sword” (Gosp. MATT 10:34). So u see, “Maria,” I’m not at all interested or concerned with bringing “truth” to zionists–my God-given purpose is in organizing and informing the people and Christian soldiers. I don’t care about zionists–except to removing them, permanently.

    Another thing I’d caution u about, comrade “Maria,” is regarding “racism” which is a magnificent, glorious virtue, that of LOYALTY to one’s people, culture, and ancestors. Note racism is specific subject of no less than 5th Commandment of original Ten, “Honor thy race (parentage).”

    For note we the people, not just Christians, are under intensive attack fm Judeo-conspirators (see TheNewAmerican.com and AugustReview.com for expo/ref. on CFR-Bilderberg conspiracy), NOT JUST “ZIONISTS,” which zionists are merely one part of large anti-Christ problem.

    Problem is Talmud–not merely zionism which is just one form/expression thereof.

    See RevisionistHistory.org, TruthTellers.org, and Come-and-hear.com for best Talmudic expo.

    Note then Talmud is ritualist murder/enslavement of gentiles, Talmudists the leaders of world’s subjectivists and anti-Christs.

    Specifically, it’s essential to see how Judeo-conspirators work–as by means of “good-cop, bad-cop” technique, “zionists” playing one of those parts (for different people).

    Thus in general, “zionists,” “Israel-firsters,” and “neo-cons” pretend to being “conservative”–like for FOX News, World Net Daily, and other “Judeo-Christian” (JC–see Whtt.org and TruthTellers.org for expo/ref.) hereticalists pretending to being “rightists.”

    The pretended “bad-cops” then (as for JCs, for example), are the CFR-Bilderberg, United Nations (UN), “leftists” who appeal to such as homosexuals and “minorities.”

    So the task is NOT to bringing truth to zionists at all, a gross waste of time/effort; zionists are avowed anti-Christs and must be dealt with and disposed of summarily as such.

    CONCLUSION: Proper task is to bringing truth to the dear gentile and Christian people who are targeted by zionists and co-conspirators as victims, and organizing the people best as possible/practicable for their defense against Judeo-conspirators–this is the urgent necessity.

    Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonian

  97. Fr. Joseph May 14, 2009 @ 7:30 am

    More “Private” revelation

    http://www.serfes.org/images/HolyFireFromTheGraveOfJesus.jpg

    Yet more “Private” revelation

    http://www.forward.com/workspace/assets/images/articles/holyfire-032108.jpg

    - Fr. Joseph

  98. Fr. Joseph May 14, 2009 @ 7:32 am

    More very, very “Private” revelation

    http://www.jerusalemshots.com/i/uploaded4/0907120015.jpg

    Yet more very, very, very “Private” revelation

    http://www.fatima.org/crusader/crintro/images/crintropg21.jpg

    - Fr. Joseph

  99. Fr. Joseph May 14, 2009 @ 7:34 am

    Everything not recorded in ‘The Bible’ is all entirely “Private” revelation, right? Well, what do you say folks?

    http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/073L7KX3rHd97/610x.jpg

    - Fr. Joseph

  100. Fr. Joseph May 14, 2009 @ 7:37 am

    Oh…Oh…I think I get it now…

    IF such Miraculous Things occur EAST of the Vistula River and NORTH of the Aegean Sea and WEST of the Ural Mountains, such Miraculous Things are of and from GOD Himself.

    BUT, if such things occur to the WEST of the Vistula River, anywheres near the Italian or Iberian Pennisula, then it must be from ‘The Devil’!

    - Fr. Joseph

  101. Fr. Joseph May 14, 2009 @ 7:49 am

    Vatican Prelates along with the Patriarchs of the Orthodox Church ought to REALLY give the following Words of our Lord some SERIOUS thought in light of what is going on in our contemporary World of 2009 Anno Domini,

    “Alas for you, Chorazin! Alas for you, Bethsaida! for if THE MIRACLES done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have REPENTED long ago in sackcloth and ashes. And still, I tell you that it will not go as hard on Judgement day with Tyre and Sidon as with you…For if THE MIRACLES done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have been standing yet. And still, I tell you that it will not go as hard with the land of Sodom on Judgement day as with you.” - Matthew 11:21-24

    PUBLIC MIRACLES are not, I repeat NOT, “private” revelation accordind to the Mind of God Incarnate Himself!

    - Fr. Joseph

  102. Fr. Joseph May 14, 2009 @ 8:38 am

    More “Private” revelation you don’t have to believe (at one’s own peril, however)

    “My dear children, I have lavished these Gifts upon you with Special Graces for twenty centuries, BUT WITH WHAT MISERABLE RESULTS!”
    God the Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ to Mother Eugenia back on July 1, 1932 at

    http://www.theworkofgod.org/Library/Trinity/Father/Message1.htm

    - Fr. Joseph

  103. Fr. Joseph May 14, 2009 @ 8:42 am

    More “Private” revelation you don’t have to believe (at one’s own peril, however).

    Eucharistic Miracles down through THE CENTURIES in the Western-Latin Church

    http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html

    - Fr. Joseph

  104. Fr. Joseph May 14, 2009 @ 8:44 am

    More “Private” revelation you don’t have to believe (at your own peril, however).

    The Most Holy Theotokos Apparitions at Zeitun, Egypt - if you DON’T ACCEPT her Fatima Apparitions, then why bother with her Zeitun Apparitions…right?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKmwj29zH_8

    - Fr. Joseph

  105. Fr. Joseph May 14, 2009 @ 8:46 am

    More “Private”Q revelation you don’t have to believe (at your own peril, however).

    The Most Holy Theotokos who appeared at Fatima as well as Zeitun relayed the following to a JAPANESE nun the following back on October 13, 1973

    “…if men do not repent and better themselves, the Father will inflict a terrible punishment on all Humanity.”
    on-line reference of this “Private” revelation here

    http://www.theworkofgod/aparitns/Akita.htm#Messages

    - Fr. Joseph

  106. Fr. Joseph May 14, 2009 @ 8:49 am

    More “Private” revelation you don’t have to believe (at your own peril, however).

    “When you have pushed MY MOTHER ASIDE, I tell you, you have pushed Me aside too. My Mother stands with Me. When you PUSH GOD ASIDE, then you shall suffer the consequences.” February 6, 1994 - on-line reference in the public domain at

    http://www.ourlovingmother.org/Messages_Monthly_1994_OurLovingMother.aspx

    - Fr. Joseph

  107. Fr. Joseph May 14, 2009 @ 8:52 am

    More “Private” revelation given to one Fr. Stephano Gobbi (a Western-Latin-Roman Catholic Church PRIEST) by the Mother of God, the Most Holy Theotokos who appeared to the people of the entire world as Our Lady of Fatima and Our Lady of Zeitun - 25 years worth of personal advise, instruction and “private” revelation give to the entire world through Fr. Gobbi’s book published by the Marian Movement of Priests.

    On line reference - order a copy for yourselves! It’s in the public domain and has a Bishop’s “Imprimatur”

    http://www.mmp-usa.net/main.html

    - Fr. Joseph

  108. Fr. Joseph May 14, 2009 @ 8:58 am

    Sorry about the typo - Our Lady of Akita’s WARNING to the entire Human Race back on October 13, 1973

    http://www.theworkofgod.org/aparitns/Akita.htm#Messages

    “My People PERISH for want of knowledge!”
    - Hosea 4:6

    I can’t help it if people want to DISREGARD as “rubbish” the Gifts of God the Holy Spirit which includes PROPHECY, Knowledge, Understanding and WISDOM!

    “Learn, my son, with how LITTLE WISDOM the World is governed.” - Pope Julius III

    Boy…did that Pope get THAT right!

    - Fr. Joseph

  109. Fr. Joseph May 14, 2009 @ 9:11 am

    Yet more “Private” revelation extracted by Priests of the Western-Latin Church via the Power of the Most Holy Theotokos, the Mother of God’s intercession for ALL OF US

    Warnings From Beyond to the Contemporary Church (Confessions of Hell) at

    http://www.tldm.org/News4/WarningsFromBeyond.1or3.htm

    - Fr. Joseph

  110. Fr. Joseph May 14, 2009 @ 9:17 am

    Everybody likes watching T.V. shows of all sorts.

    Here is an on-line video documentary entitled “Heaven’s Key To Peace” which explains to SIX BILLION PEOPLE on Planet Earth in this year 2009 Anno Domini that which GOD HIMSELF wants done BY the Patriarchs, Metropolitans, Archbishops and Bishops of HIS Christian Church here on earth.

    World Peace is a ‘Something’ that GOD HIMSELF can cause to flourish and flood across every last nation-country and human inhabited CONTINENT/LAND MASS of our contemporary World.

    Sure would be NICE to have ‘World Peace’ for a change, don’t you think? Then we would NOT have to listen to the Zionist, Masonic, Rosicrucian, Hermetic, Gnostic, Qabbalistist, Satanic, Luciferian GARBAGE spewed out all over people and into their minds and hearts day in and day out, year in and year out.

    Kinda gets awful SICK & TIRING to have to watch and listen to the SAME OLD ‘Popeye and Bluto’ cartoon 24/7/365, don’t you think?

    Heaven’s Key To Peace at
    http://www.heavenskeytopeace.com/

    - Fr. Joseph

  111. Maria May 14, 2009 @ 9:30 am

    @Michael K

    I never brought up Christian Zionism, that’s something you brought up on your own.

    I believe that the unity of the Christian Church has, in history, brought about lawful positive change. For one example, I referenced that the people of Russia and Poland are better off today as free market economies than they were before.

    No one, except you, is bringing up Radical Power and Christian Zionism and these descriptives: Commie Jew Babylons, apes, mud people, mystical knightly militarism, bad stuff, Ranger and Barf.

    These are your words. I haven’t heard them used in common vocabulary.

  112. Maria May 14, 2009 @ 9:36 am

    The Fallacy of the Straw Man

    There is an error in reasoning known as the Straw Man.

    If you feel you’ve been ripped off in a verbal encounter check for these steps.

    1) When the other person incompletely acknowledges what you have said
    2) Distorts your position
    3) Responds to the distortion

    You need to re-direct them back..

  113. apollonian May 14, 2009 @ 9:38 am

    “PUBLIC MIRACLES are not, I repeat NOT, “private” revelation accordind to the Mind of God Incarnate Himself!” - Fr. Joseph, May 14, 2009 @ 7:49 am

    * * * * *

    Christ’s TRUTH Doesn’t Need “Miracles”
    (Apollonian, 14 May 09)

    Fr. Joseph, here’s ur problem, comrade: No one should need such as u to pretend to speaking for God–God hardly needs u–don’t forget. A Christian is NOT A PHARISEE–which is what u sound like most of all.

    The OBVIOUS problem w. “miracles” is they’re subjectivistic occurrences–if they’re true at all–THEY’RE FOR CHILDREN and people who have difficulty with thinking.

    Adult human beings make use of reason which is quite sufficient and all a good, decent Christian needs, don’t forget. Talking about “miracles” is a waste of time–esp. for a serious blog for adult human beings like Bro. Kapner’s

    The entire problem w. present world is its addiction to SUBJECTIVISM and pathetic dependence upon absurd and brainless wished-for “miracles.” Humanity needs rather to rely upon the “right reason” of Cicero, only augmented then with that inspired example of Christ who instructed us most sufficiently with his magnificent rationalism, Christ assuring us that heeding to truth and hence implicit objective criterion will reward us quite well enough.

    CONCLUSION: In short, Fr. Joseph, pls note CHRIST’S TRUTH DOESN’T NEED MIRACLES, comrade–all we need is that basic Christian HONESTY–pls get a clue. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonian

  114. Maria May 14, 2009 @ 10:40 am

    Apollonian:

    Thanks for the succinct and direct response.

    Stav? where’s yours?

  115. jgalindes May 14, 2009 @ 12:10 pm

    Sincerely, without any intention of rude polemics, I understand that here we are all Christians of different denominations, its true, but EQUAL in front of GOD.

    Even Jews , with all its malignity deserves our love.

    New Nation is a web-site of white supremacists.

    …“racism” which is a magnificent, glorious virtue, that of LOYALTY to one’s people, culture, and ancestors”…

    Simple check New Nation and see which are the subjects of glorious racism.

    May be I’m a backward south american (a mongrel,you may say,Mr Apollonian) but miracles do perform an important sub-set of supernatural phenomena, manifestations of God.

  116. admin May 14, 2009 @ 12:34 pm

    DEAR FRIENDS OF OUR REAL ZIONIST NEWS FAMILY -

    I am now on my third day here in NYC conducting “STREET EVANGELISM.”

    I just got back from Wall Street (it is now 4 PM EST) and apart from a Jew spitting at the Cross (I rebuked him sharply) and another Jew shoving his umbrella in my face, the response was OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE. And this from everyone!

    Teenagers doing tours, businessmen, out of towners, people from France, Spain, England, and Japan all came up to me to talk with me and thank me for “the work I am doing.”

    Things are going SO WELL that I just booked with the Youth Hostel where I am staying another week in July 8-13, 2009. Please consider helping with this upcoming Street Evanelism trip and others to NYC on a REGULAR BASIS.

    Many now in Wall Street know me and said to me, (even policmen), “WELCOME BACK - BROTHER NATHANAEL!”

    I am off to Times Sq now, so PLEASE keep me in your prayers.

    +Brother Nathanael

  117. Stavros May 14, 2009 @ 2:18 pm

    Hi Maria,

    It has been a very busy day, sorry for my delay in responding.
    >>How should Christians respond to Zionists?

    I’ll try to respond not in the name of Orthodoxy, as I could not bare to represent it officially here in the statements below, because I do not think i am worthy to do so, although I am Orthodox. I would need to talk to my spiritual father about this before I could give you a totally official answer. However I will try to give my opinion below which regardless is saturated in Orthodox views.

    One important thing is this. Zionists, Jews, Greeks, Russians, Blacks, Whites, whatever, all people are our brothers. In Orthodoxy, all people are viewed as images of God. Thus, we must all wish the best possible for all of the people mentioned above, including Zionists. We can, and must pray for them, and this, as I will show below may be the most important thing we do for them, and us.

    I think that despite the very detailed and important historical analysis of Zionism in the context of this real material world, it is important, I think, for any Christian to be aware that this is primarily a spiritual matter. Yes, Zionism has worldly goals, which sometimes (or most of the time) interfere with the rest of humanity’s worldly goals and it is important to try and be aware and respond accordingly (in a fair and as much as possible non violent manner).

    However, for a Christian, the first consideration is that as mentioned in Scripture and of course confessed by Br Nathanael and seen around us today, the Zionists and anti-christian Jews, are exactly that, anti-Christ. This attitude against their fellow man, goes of course further to the point that any non-Jew is not equal to them and this is an essential thing to understand. By despising any non Jew, they are despising the image of God, because we are all images of God. Thus, by their self-worship and their hate of others, they essentially insult God. Thus, again it can be seen that we have to do with an issue that has spiritual implications.

    Since Christ is our Lord, and Christ is God, we obviously need to defend His name, but there is no need to defend Him in the sense of material protection. In fact, it is WE who need His protection, not the other way around. This is because as God, He is all-powerful. Thus, is it US who need help and guidance by the Lord, especially in these matters.

    If indeed, Zionism has infiltrated our Banks, our Governments, our Media , our Schools, our Medical institutions etc. etc. what, if anything can we do as mere individuals, or even as groups. It is a well known fact that in most “civilized” countries, you can’t even say that you personally believe certain things about the Jewish people, let alone actually change something that they have established for years.

    In my view, heavily in the context of Orthodoxy, it is First God who can help us, and only after that, we can take some actions to change things. Thus, the proper first response towards Zionism, is Prayer, Active participation in the Church and all that it has to offer, starting of course from the holy mysteries such as confessions, communion etc. Only after we establish a practical and real (although sometimes difficult) connection with Christ our Lord, can we effectively do some things to fight back Zionism.

    As you can get from the above, my main point is to say, that in order to fight anti-Christ, you need Christ. No amount of historical or scientific knowledge, or political activism or whatever else, can EVER respond accordingly to threats such as Zionism and any other spiritual threat.

    And this is our ONLY winning card, or to better phrase it, He, Jesus Christ is our only help.

    Off course, after all the above is accepted, then there are many things that can be done. One first important step is awareness. Zionists, and their helpers, LOVE to act in secret and LOVE to act in the name of others, or establish their values, under the guise of other values. For example, loss of privacy under the guise of Security. Or Fiat Currency under the guise of economic stability. These are off course lies, but this is what they do, they lie, just like their Father, Satan.

    Thus, again from the above, the first step that we can take as simple people, is to be aware and make others aware.

    It is only then, that one can respond with actions. I would recommend carefully trying to influence decisions makers who are in positions of power to take action to preserve a proper and free way of life for all people. Once must strive to preserve availability of truth, openness, freedom, love, respect etc. As long as we promote these values in a practical manner, we are already doing the exact opposite of what Zionism is trying to establish in order to reach its goals.

    In short, we, must upkeep in all ways possible freedom, truth and love. But it has to be done in the name of Jesus Christ.

    Stav

    PS a response to your previous message is comming.

  118. Stav May 14, 2009 @ 3:20 pm

    Hi Maria,

    I will try to respond briefly to your comments, although quite a bit out of topic. If you want to talk to me about this further, you could contact me via email, via Br Nathanael if you want. I would not want to clog up this message board with irrelevant material. This is also the reason why I will in many cases jump to conclusions and appear to come to conclusions out of nowhere…

    >>Thanks for your explanation..I do not think it is inappropriate for the Pope to comment on world affairs..

    Yes, as a matter of fact, I did not mean to say that the Pope , or anyone else should be stripped of their right to comment on things. However, it is different, to comment on things, and it is different to do such things as become too concerned with the worldly affairs to the point of getting near Theological corruption. I will not go through an explanation of this statement, although I know you may need that to fully understand it. My main point is here, that a bishop, cannot be “entangled” into politics, or other worldly affairs, in such a way that it is actually possible to change the meaning of what Christianity is.

    As an example I can mention the recent Ecological statements that are coming for some time now and then, from the catholic Church. In principle it is not bad to encourage greener ways of life, however, what happens for example when essentially what happens, one is also granting power to forces that only use this vehicle of ecology to obtain darker goals?

    Or what happens in the case where the Pope comments on contraception, while leaving the underlying issues of faith unmentioned? If one, for example, is intrigued by the political affairs of the Catholic Church, enough to join it or participate more in it, have they then joined for the right reason? Where does Jesus Christ come into all of this? What comes first, Jesus Christ of this Worldly, material earth?

    I do think the Catholic Church has done a great deal in Poland and Russia to end communism, which I think is positive, as well as work done in the Phillipines, Africa and many other countries to liberate populations seeking self sufficiency.

    Yes, some of these things have been done, however, as an Orthodox, I am VERY VERY concerned by the spiritual damage done by the false doctrines that also came in when Catholicism came. Granted, charity is important and some of the work there is very commendable. I am also sure that many many good people participated in the things you mentioned. But at the same time, in the context of Orthodoxy, I cannot help but wondering, what effect will the false doctrines have in these people’s lives, now that they are free?

    “I never hear the Orthodox church leaders commenting on world affairs..I wish they would because I’d like to know what they think.. Despite having second maternal cousins who belong to the Russian Orthodox Church….I don’t know a great deal about it, except from this website.”

    True, the Orthodox, do not do too much evangelizing, nor do they expose themselves too much in the world. But then again, this is partly by “design” if one can use this phrase in this case, and partly because of historical reasons. One of the most prominent historical reasons, is that at least for the last 200 years, there have not been too many rich Orthodox Churches who would be capable of running a world wide campaign of mission. The Orthodox, do not have Banks, belonging to the Church, nor centralized and controlled education or coordination.

    Orthodoxy, rooting from it original and pure doctrines, does not compare to Catholicism in this way. Even if one puts aside the doctrinal differences, you will see that it’s focus is simply different. The Orthodox, promote a personal connection with Christ, a spiritual process of betterment first.

    It does not focus, on politics, interfering with worldly affairs too much, except on a personal level, where a single particular soul is at stake. As a matter of fact, the only times when it came close to politics, in Byzantium and Russia, both times, it was hit by very very large blows essentially taking away this power from it. Some Orthodox believe this has a spiritual significance, perhaps even, an indication, a message. The Church is to be eternal and steady to its original faith. It’s core faith cannot, and should not, be flexible and so readily responsive to whatever world status exists.

    The “recipe for success”, is the same, it has not changed since the beginning of the Church.

    There is no need for an addendum or any keeping “up-to-date”, or flexibility where the Faith is concerned. To put it in other words, what can the Pope say to the world today that Paul has not already? The way is not meddle, don’t try to look cool, and likable. Tell the truth or tell them that what they are doing is wrong, and leave it at that. That was Jesus Christs way, and Paul way.

    There is no need to acquire the lingo of the times, or talk about the subjects that are trendy today, to appeal, because it is not about appeal. Christianity is about my and your soul and how we can get myself and yourself saved before we die. The answer is Christ will do that for us.

    “It does seem to me, though, that if you are of a nationality that is not Russian, Greek, Albanian, etc… and want to be an Orthodox Christian where do you go for plurality?”

    Yes this is a practical question. If you are living in the USA or the UK , Australia etc. there are now plenty of Churches with a mixed congregation. This had been a problem for a few years, but it is now much easier to find a Church where you can fit into.

    “Again, I do believe that is a clear advantage of the Catholic Church–the embracement of universality..”

    Universality, does not necessary mean that it is also correctly - so universal. True, the Catholic Church has a huge world-wide population and also is spread out quite widely.

    However, the Universality of the Church, should not refer to worldly expansion. In the Orthodox view, this universality without correct doctrine means nothing. In fact, it is correct doctrine that makes a faith automatically universal. Again a statement that probably required hours of explantations.

    “Something the Orthodox should know is that the Catholic Church, ultimately, is the faith of Jesus Christ..and people running any Church institution, Catholic, Orthodox and otherwise, are human beings themselves and all fall short of the glory of God except for Jesus Christ.”

    Just to give you a small idea of why such statements make no sense (by the selves) to an Orthodox: Psychologically speaking, politically speaking, and even doctrinally speaking, the Catholic Church is NOT ultimately about Jesus Christ. It is about Rome, and the Pope.

    If you do not believe me, then check out, why it separated it self, from the original Church.

    The reason was most definitely NOT Jesus Christ. Also, Orthodox see the Church as the body of Christ, the bride of Chirst. Thus, when you join the Church, you in a way marry Christ. So, the practicing, conscious Orthodox, know very well, that the Faith in Christ is most important.

    What I would say about this is that I doubt that the typical Catholic view and first concern is Christ. It is politics, whether in the Church or in the world and the Pope. Hence one Orthodox term for Catholicism is Papism.

    “Of course, that’s not a reason not to have structure because then nothing would be accomplished.”

    As I said above, it is not about structure, nor about organizing things, not about taking control as mere humans. The matter of the Church is spiritual first, and material second. The Church is the Body of Christ. The existence of the Church, is only there so we can let Jesus Christ work through tis body, on its body and to the rest of the world. This exactly also the different of Orthodoxy and Catholicism. Spirit vs, World.

    Let me give you one more example of how Catholicism is more about this world than spiritual matters. What does a Catholic monk or nun do? What takes the most time of his day? And conversely, what does an Orthodox monk or nun do? What does take his most time of the day?

    The answer will give you also a very clear insight on how Catholicism is about this, material world, and Orthodoxy is about the next.

    As for the rest of your comments, I generally agree. While appearing very hard line in my views above, these are my views and as a conscious Orthodox, I do have some very serious reason for not being Catholic, so I thought I’d present some of them very briefly. But in reality, this does not mean to say that I do not appreciate other Christians. Some denominations have a better understanding than others, as exactly do individuals, too by the way, whether Orthodox or not.

    It is absolutely clear, that Christians should stick together and stick to their faith, and try to learn as much as they can about it. Also they should pray more, learn about the Scriptures more, and most importantly, not let the Zionist agenda corrupt their communities/countries any further.

    “It does not matter if that Church is Catholic, Let the bells ring, let everybody hear them!” as Br. said on a much older radio show I heard. Soon enough if they get their way, all Christian expression they will try to silence. We need to resists now.

    Sorry for being so long again…

    Stav

  119. Fr. Joseph May 14, 2009 @ 4:48 pm

    Dear Apollonian,

    Perhaps you need a reminder…

    The Christian Faith IS a Public Miracle!

    Christ Jesus Himself PERFORMED Public Miracles!

    Christ Jesus’ Resurrection from the Dead was a Public Miracle.

    Pentecost, the Outpouring of CHRIST’S OWN Holy Spirit upon thousands of individuals meeting in Jerusalem was a Public Miracle!

    Creation itself - the earth under your feet, the air that you breathe, the sky above and all of its stars are a CONSTANT 24 hour a day, day in and day out Public Miracle for 6 billion people living on earth EVERY DAY!

    Your “subjective” view of and understanding of Christ Jesus’ PUBLIC Revelation to the entire world is to be questioned and NOT the Lord’s PUBLIC MIRACLES!

    - Fr. Joseph

  120. Fr. Joseph May 14, 2009 @ 4:52 pm

    Br. Nathanael,

    I hope you distributed those holy cards of St. Michael the Archangel to both the NYPD officers on Wall Street and the NYC youth.

    - Fr. Joseph

  121. Maria May 14, 2009 @ 6:08 pm

    Dear Stav:

    Thank you for this lengthy response. I found it to be very helpful and appreciate all the thought that went into it.

    It really does deepen my understanding of the Orthodox.

    –Maria

  122. Joanne May 14, 2009 @ 7:50 pm

    Hi Brother Nathanael,

    ZIONISM: OF GOD OR SATAN?

    MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, simply defined, is that portion of the Gentile Church which is controlled by the Synagogue of Satan. The Great Whore has been riding this Beast lo these many centuries, seducing multitudes with the Babylonish apparel of her princes, her mystical rites, idolatrous worship and her brotherhood of spiritual elites, whose false monasteries are fronts for homosexual and occult activity. After having exploited Christianity to establish a global kingdom, the Beast will eventually overthrow the Great Whore and remove the mask, revealing its Jewish identity. Until then, the Synagogue of Satan will continue to make use of the Mother of Harlots to obtain its immediate objective—reconquest and repossession of the Holy Land.

    The Zionist Movement and its precursor, Reform Judaism, have removed the Jews from observance of the Torah and substituted in its place the secular humanism that characterizes 95% of world Jewry today.

    Zionism does not constitute the fulfillment of God’s plan for the Jews but rebellion against it. This, in turn, will incur more of God’s wrath upon the Jews, according to Lubavitch Rabbi, Shulem Ben Shneersohn:

    “Should—Heaven forbid—the Zionists succeed in obtaining a country as they hope, they will defile and desecrate it with their abominations and their evil deeds and thus prolong—Heaven forbid—the length of the Exile.”

    It can be concluded that ultra-Orthodox Jewry is simply the religious extreme of the dialectic in professed, but not actual, opposition to secular Zionism. The dialectical process, which is designed to polarize the masses and destabilize the status quo in order to restructure the social order, will ultimately unite world Jewry in a Babylonian religious system based on Kabalism, which is the common denominator of Zionism and ultra-Orthodox Jewry.

    Psalm 119:91 says of the Lord, “…for all are thy servants”— which reveals that all men, even the wicked, are fulfilling the sovereign purposes of God whether they realize it or not. So the Zionists, who are funded by Rothschild money and think they are so brilliant as to outwit, not only the Christians, but God Himself, are in fact greatly opposing themselves (Acts 18:6) Likewise, the ultra-Orthodox Kabbalists.

    And so we are given to understand that God has not cast off His people forever, but a glorious day awaits the remnant of Israel when the Lord Jesus Christ will reveal Himself.

    When Jesus reveals himself to His brethren, it will be a family affair, and profoundly moving. The Biblical type for this reconciliation is the patriarch Joseph, who wept as he revealed his identity to his brethren…and hastened to graciously forgive them for their past treachery.

    “I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid… God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew… I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

    Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

    As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!” (Romans 11)

    May the Lord Jesus continually Bless everyone that writes into this website.

    take care - Sincerely Yours in Christ Jesus.
    Joanne

  123. Lynda May 14, 2009 @ 8:03 pm

    Dear Juan,

    Yes, Beneict’s mission to Israel is all that you say. And there will be worse in the dregs.

    This is a psy op that has been scripted for the global village. The script is entitled: Regnare Christum Nolumus. We Will Not Have This Christ to Reign. Benedict is playing his part well.

    The world and those who do not perceive this event according to the clear light of the Roman Church’s infallible Magisterial Truth will construe it according to their own lights.

    Roman Catholics will understand it according to:

    “We declare that if ever a Bishop, Archbishop, Patriarch or Primate, a Cardinal or a Legatee or even a sovereign pope, had before their elevation to the cardinalcy or pontificate deviated from the Catholic faith or fallen into some heresy, the promotion or elevation- even if it had taken place with the unanimous assent of all the cardinals - is invalid and null…All their words deeds and actions…are without value and have no authority or command over anyone.”

    Paul IV. Cum ex Apostolatus Officio. Feb 15, 1559 A.D, ex cathedra.

  124. Sara May 14, 2009 @ 10:51 pm

    Nice article. Bro.Nate’s article on Jones being a shill is true.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEqMu3UeVwM

  125. anonymous May 15, 2009 @ 12:46 am

    We have listened to your description of the Holocaust, and that is sad, and that is your narrative.

    But now you come here, and try to take our name, and take our narrative.

    Restore the original name of the site, or I won’t honor the Jewish holocaust history anymore.

    It’s a two-way street. How dare you come here, amongst us, and try to tell us how to talk, or what names, dialogues, or narratives to have?

    Who are you to take our narrative away?

    Restore the original name.

    I see that you are also busy trying to take over Europe, and that you think cutting animals’ throats with a long blade is humane–that’s insane, we saw Eugene Armstrong die that way, and somehow, it didn’t seem humane.

    I don’t care how nasty you are, or if you come after me, I expect you to come after me. You want to put all the strong Christian men on lists, so you can use your corrupt security contracts to run your little decapitation strategy, and try to dilute our cultural power, by damaging, harassing, or killing the best of us. You picked the wrong country, and you’re interfering with the wrong people.

    This is OUR NARRATIVE. OUR STORY, OUR NARRATIVE. Not yours to “modify” as per your custom. OUR WORDS. OUR NAME. OUR NARRATIVE.

    Brother N is a resident of the state of Colorado, and a US citizen, and as such, is protected by the US Constitution; under the 1st Amendment, free speech is permitted, as well as under common law, so anything to the contrary, including so-called “hate speech” laws, will not withstand Constitutional scrutiny and will be ruled unconstitutional.

    Trying to act, anticipatorily, by self-censoring, is an unwise course of action–whether shills send donations and act as “cool down” men or not. There’s always money to be made lying to people–but taking that from those particular sources defeats the stated purpose of this web site.

    Jewish lawyers, and lawyers of Jews, if you are harassing this formerly-Jewish Christian lay monastic, and threatening him, you can lose your state bar licenses by being in violation of Professional Rules of Responsibility for lawyers. Readers of this web site who suspect rogue lawyers, can report them to the respective state bars, whose contact information can be found in the local phone books.

    On the same token, disturbingly, any commentary at this web site is otherwise totally invalidated by the current name, which destroys all credibility, and makes all dialog dismissible.

    If you make such an agreement, you destroy your stated purpose, Brother N. Switch the name back, and let them sue you. There are many law firms in Colorado who will take this.

    Don’t embolden these jackals, who would steal our entire country, and then sell it back to us at 30 percent interest on a monthly installment plan, and who would take over the best East Coast universities, and then treat the true sons of those universities like the Plague for having personality characteristics that safeguard freedom and decentralize power.

    And now that you’ve changed the name, Brother N, we can’t have these dialogues, because the Jews in the security services in the United States, will use the mere presence of individuals here at this web site as indicative of hate activity, because of the name alone–it becomes a credibility issue.

    Website visitors, concerned Christians, talk about Real Jew News–”haters” talk about “zionists”, and everybody knows it. The term, “zionist” is all played out, tainted, and sullied, and it taints everybody here by association by using it.

    We cannot have it established that Jews can just come along, and force us to do a thing, can force us to give up a name, or else we are right back in Auschwitz, staring at that leering prison-camp guard. It demeans and dehumanizes to do such a thing. You need to stand up to these thugs, for the sake of the group, or, you are advancing their interests, not ours, no matter what you say from this point.

    To the international community: to the people in Ireland, the UK, New Zealand, Australia, Canada, who are coming under pressure from your governments; resist the machinations of these Jewish money-looters, soul-stealers, and narrative-thieves, who keep trying to re-frame and re-define us, who keep trying to re-define the spaces we operate in, and who keep trying to derail our thoughts, desires, and motivations, and our patterns of self-organization.

    We don’t need the Jews–they are parasites who have stolen the Ivy League, stolen our airports, have locked our own Christian children out of airports so they can’t learn to fly; have placed disgusting guards, police, and abusive boogiemen in the schools; have drenched us with a torrential downpour of non-stop, filth-ridden propaganda!

    And now, you want to tell me that I can’t talk about you, Jew, or that if I do, I have to do it in a venue crafted by your collective mental trickery, so as to destroy all credibility of our thoughts and words?

    And you want us to talk about your Holocaust for all these years?

    You go to hell! I want to go to medical school! Why can’t I go to college in the United States? Why can’t I even enter my own country? What purpose does a country serve, if it doesn’t even work; you’ve subverted it; and now you want a global government to come in and “fix” everything, by becoming an even worse tyranny?

    You take away everything that matters, and leave us with dust, and lies, and huge bills for money lending, while you try to bribe and buy-off people like Brother N, and send all of these paid shills here under false pretenses to encourage docile and acquiescent thinking among Christians, while you always plot to stab us in the back.

    Go, go to your Israel! Have your country! Stay out of ours! Stay away from our schools! Stay away from our airports! Stop trying to touch us and denigrate us–your games, cons, and routines have become tiresome, and we reject them, and we reject you, because your behavior is malicious.

    Stop telling people around the world that you are “securing” us, because you are securing nothing! And everybody knows it. You don’t police us; we are our own police, and we police you.

    It is not just a case of the foxes guarding the henhouse; it is a case of the foxes guarding the henhouse, and then breaking all the eggs, and then turning around and blaming the roosters.

    We’re tired of your destructive and manipulative behavior, and we want you out of the country.

    You don’t come here and define this venue, Jews–it’s ours, it’s our dialog, it’s “Real Jew News”.

    If you Jews can call yourselves doctors, then I am a doctor, too, and nobody’s going to keep me out of the Ivy League.

    We Christian men are being pushed out of everything in the United States; the country doesn’t work anymore, and the termite-Jews have eaten all the wood, except for the surface of the boards, and as they walk off, in a line, their digestive tracts filled with cellulose, when the house collapses, they are going to all look back in unison, and blame the 2×4’s.

    Let’s talk about the Jewish endowments to the Ivy League universities. Let’s talk about you ignoring me, and pushing us, systematically, out of the universities.

    Why are you Jews so obsessed with security, over Christian men? Why do you need to track us, and know our whereabouts at all times, unless you intend to come kill us at some point? You don’t track us for our health–you track us, because our minds are not compatible with your future plans for our women and children, and that bothers you; that there are people who are less susceptible to being brought into spheres of control that would make you more comfortable.

    By constricting the money supply, you turn the entire economy into a noose, while many of you Jews run off with looted money to foreign havens that welcome you with open arms, because they know they can just kick back a percentage of the looted funds, in exchange for compliance from United States investigators (if they even show up).

    Knock off the targeting, the lists, the Fair Game doctrine, we know what you’re doing, and we’re not going to stand for a privileged Gestapo class of any declension–pseudo-security, sanctioned, official, paramilitary, or otherwise.

    Go secure your own facilities, and stay the hell out of our national security.

    I swear to you all, I am going to be the best doctor the Ivy League has ever seen–and I think that one of my first patients will be Israel, for we cannot have mentally-ill, power-mad people trying to rule over us. Meglomania is a mental illness, and that targeting, list-making, checkpointing, and aggressive surveillance behavior is clearly indicative of severe psychiatric problems and deep-seated mental illness.

    Jewish people, you need to be responsible for your own lives! Stop trying to run ours! We run the United States security! Not you! You secure your own country!

    If you have a shred of decency or integrity left, stop interfering with our culture, and stop assassinating people for leading their own people.

    This is about the Ivy League, this is about national security. Stay away from the internal mechanisms of our security and universities.

    Stop subverting and diluting the essence of what we cherish in a free society. Stop, or we’re going to throw you out.

    Being a physician is a spiritual matter, and being a physician means speaking out against people like you, to dissuade you from introducing systems of abuse that relegate humanitarianism to a forgotten, back-seat existence.

    We, the sons of the Ivy League, are in the driver’s seat; humanitarianism is in the driver’s seat; we are prepared to absorb your hatred for the rest of our lives. We are also wary of the trap of you trying to get us to hate you, or to hate Israel, so as to rob us of spiritual energy or blessings. You can’t control us, unless you can succeed in forcing us to hate you, and that’s one of your greatest mental tricks.

    You need sophisticated weapons systems, so you can kill people, forcing those that survive to hate you, so that you can rob them a second time of their spiritual energy, against their wills, and without their consent.

    Anger is not hate. When you love people, you want to see them safe, strong, and well-educated. Only the dastardly and intellectually-bankrupt would find profit or satisfaction in driving the finest Christian men out of our finest universities.

    So go ahead and surveil me–put me on your lists–I’m a product of the Ivy League, and I was born to hold a syringe and scalpel, to be methodical, determined, and emotionless when necessary. You have made your lives and fortunes as professional harassers and liars, and I think that speaks for itself.

    Were you, commandos, analysts, and strategists, looking for our “nucleus”, our nerve-center of operations? Our nucleus is love itself, that exists in all people, when they do good to each other.

    It’s a rather evasive adversary; sometimes it can show up on MR scans, as heightened neural activity; the antithesis of docility; sometimes you see it in children’s eyes, and other times, its light can be beaten out of people, with enough determination–or shall I say, premeditation?

    As this battle progresses, the minds of those who are malicious will darken with reduced electrical activity, while those who love and forgive will grow stronger.

    Hate tends to shrink the brain, while love makes it grow, therefore, those who love, are the proper ones to administer society.

    A society given over to fear, and dominated by assassins, is uncivilized, and does not deserve existence.

    You don’t want people talking about the “Real Jew News”, you want to stomp it out of existence because you think that if people don’t see something for a while, then that thing, that dialog, that narrative, for all intents and purposes, ceases to exist. And that’s based on advertising theory and behaviorism. So you’re just using gimmicks to amplify your own significance, while severely biasing, distorting, or eliminating any authentic dialog.

    You have a tradition, of the Orthodox Rabbi’s wife not being touched–we feel the same way about ourselves–we don’t like strangers, your thugs and goons, trying to touch us in airports. Maybe if I was visiting Al Capone in Chicago, I could expect such treatment, but I wasn’t, I was doing a standard non-sterile transit in an international airport, between two nations who are allies.

    You like to videotape me being humiliated, yes?

    That is a Jewish pastime, to do such things–like the Jews having their beards trimmed in the street, by any thug coming along, while another thug takes photographs.

    Continuing on, you have missile-proof aircraft, and this technology will be an important defensive aspect to those of us who don’t want to interface with your thugocracy anymore.

    We do not attack–we prevent attacks. We strive to protect life and human values. You are the ones who attack, and you are the ones who perform the self-attack treachery, repeatedly.

    For those wanting clarification about terminology, the self-attack treachery that I refer to, is when a security-obsessed individual or group blows up their own airplane or their own building (even with their own people inside) and then blames someone else, typically an enemy.

    That process quickly triggers a polarizing sympathy response to those who attacked themselves, and condemnation against those falsely accused, which can be a pretty strategically profitable package, for a smaller country that can’t get results otherwise, or legitimately (i.e., such as through diplomacy).

    I would die, trying to save those Jews who we know that you other, militant Jews would kill, just to advance a ‘greater cause’–there can be no greater cause, the only ‘greater cause’ that you conceive is simply great tyranny through increased centralization of authoritarian government, which has never been necessary in the first place, no matter how big the population is.

    Cantons or states, administered through local, non-subverted councils, and populated by well-bred, well-raised, well-behaved, faithful, well-armed, intelligent people, readily withstand the tests of decentralization.

    All of these police and jails are like a big dollop of ice cream on a tyrant’s cake–those are the luxuries of a pustulating state that no longer fears the retributation of its righteously aggrieved citizens, and so hangs its concupiscence-distended stomach out for all to see in an extravagance of depravity.

    You militant Jews kill a few sheep to scare the others–even if those are Israeli “sheep”; but the premise is false, for frightening people into wide-spread compliance is only necessary under authoritarian regimes.

    And that brings us back to the mental illness of megalomaniacs, because only severely mental ill people are attracted to that much power and dominion over others. Even Russia, China, and India don’t have the degree or extent of centralization as the United States and Israel.

    What’s the point of controlling everything a person does? The point is CONTROLLING ITSELF, and that comes from mental illness.

    For the record, I am posting this to RealJewnews.com, not any “zionist”-type web site, I don’t recognize or support hate sites, and I don’t participate in that.

    I also wanted to report that everything about Jews is being censored at every level: Web, Usenet, as well as mainstream. The Jews just can’t stand the truth, they spend all day putting fresh plaster on an old, old facade of lies.

  126. sonne May 15, 2009 @ 1:44 am

    Search for the Book from Jacob Brafman KAHAL or the Kahal.

    It is all about jewish Life , their Secret Societies , Rituals and Behavior.

    Brafman is a Jew who had enough from the Kahal and lived under Zar who printed the Book and Jacob Brafman converted to Christ.

    It helps to understand even the Jews and their Deeds of today and this bad Stuff

  127. jgalindes May 15, 2009 @ 3:39 am

    Even with the enigmatic and somewhat confused intervention of “anonymous” (not that much I hope, as Br. Nathanael requires our name , surname and e-mail address to post here, isn’t it?) I feel that this threads migrate considerably from the central subject proposed by Br. Nathanael.

    To me particularly is healthy, I’m benefiting from the vast knowledge on Church history, theology, etc , that several participants display gracefully.

    And we have Fr.Joseph and Stavros conveying a certain ‘peace of the ordained’.

    Being Roman Catholic I detect an small amount of contempt coming from certain quarters, but till this point, I may say that I’m quite happy of exchanging (mostly quietly hearing you, in fact) ideas with all of you.

    Returning to the thread proposed by Br.Nathanael, I read it again today and was quite urged to comment on a website that Br. Nathanael researched, and this is debka.com.

    I particularly do not believe in any leeway this or any other US government could have regarding the will and purpose of Israel.

    I usually get a central belief of a gigantic , secular, certainly malignant plot to enslave humanity through the kabalistic jew.

    And have no confidence when something seems to drift too much from that plan.

    Debka.com has been denounced as a Mossad front by several well informed people and so I’ll take with a grain of salt whatever they write.

    I do not particularly believe that any action taken by USA will be against the secret strategy the “planners of the world “traced for Israel.

    I don’t believe in any “fracture” among the servile US officials, almost 100% in the jewish payroll.

    Obviously Netanyahu visit next week will certainly produce some difficult to digest results for the people involved (Iranians, Palestinians, Syrians, etc).

    For us Christians, there are not too many options left, besides pray and pray, in order that Jesus protect with his sacred hands all the potential innocents victims of whatever secret satanic decisions be taken in closed doors.

  128. Fr. John May 15, 2009 @ 4:58 am

    OK, I’ll put in my two cents. (Not that anyone is listening)

    Fr. Joseph- “Oh…Oh…I think I get it now…

    IF such Miraculous Things occur EAST of the Vistula River and NORTH of the Aegean Sea and WEST of the Ural Mountains, such Miraculous Things are of and from GOD Himself.
    BUT, if such things occur to the WEST of the Vistula River, anywheres near the Italian or Iberian Pennisula, then it must be from ‘The Devil’!”

    No, but a communion that self-anathematizes itself in 1054, and then acts as if she alone were the sum and substance of the ‘Truth’ is apt to err, and ‘has erred’ as the Anglican formularies put it so succinctly. Rome has erred, and continues to err. That’s all Orthodox commentators on this blog have ever said.

    JGalindes- “Sincerely, without any intention of rude polemics, I understand that here we are all Christians of different denominations, its true, but EQUAL in front of GOD.
    Even Jews , with all its malignity deserves our love.
    New Nation is a web-site of white supremacists.”

    No, God is not beholden to ‘love everyone.’ This is a false egalitarian, Unitarian/Universalist lie that has trickled down to the common man. Modern ‘X-tianity’ is more a social club, than a confession of faith. Holy Orthodoxy (of which the author of this site is a confessing member) has called the Jews, “Deicides.” And they continue to do so, even in light of the [false] ‘absolving of guilt’ by the Vatican. [Fr. Joseph, see PP. above]

    If you adhere to talmudism, you are an adherent of a FALSE racial supremacism, far worse than any ‘white supremacist’ label - GIVEN BY JEWS TO THEIR ENEMIES. New Nation News merely ‘calls a spade a spade,’to use and old expression. I am afraid you have never read St. Paul’s epistles, for therein he clearly points out that ’some are vessels unto destruction’ [Rom. 9:22]. Clearly, God does not ‘love’ everyone. He ‘loveth Mankind’, surely. But not all hominids ARE ‘mankind,’ if by that term we look at St. Paul and the Orthodox Church’s liturgical resources…

    Stavros- “One important thing is this. Zionists, Jews, Greeks, Russians, Blacks, Whites, whatever, all people are our brothers. In Orthodoxy, all people are viewed as images of God. Thus, we must all wish the best possible for all of the people mentioned above, including Zionists. We can, and must pray for them, and this, as I will show below may be the most important thing we do for them, and us.”

    I am afraid you are mistaken. In Orthodoxy, prayers are ONLY offered to/for OTHER Orthodox- and no one else. Unlike in Protestantism, or RC’ism (who have departed from the Faith so far as to pray for outright heretics and pagans- I’ve heard it in their ‘assemblies’, I’m not making this up), the Orthodox only pray for their own.

    The Liturgical norms in Orthodoxy, taking their cue from teh OT biblical norms, prays for “God’s Own,’ PURPOSEFULLY LEAVING THE UNREGENERATE out of the sanctifying circle of the Church’s prayers. Clearly, the older patristic mindset saw Europe as co-terminous with Christendom. This is an inconvenient Truth, but I challenge you to find ONE instance of ‘prayer for our brethren, the Turks [Muslims] in ANY GREEK liturgical resource, before 1960!!!

    No, as an RC once said (back when they at least had a remnant of the mindset that defined Christendom) “Europe is the Faith; the Faith, Europe.” This ‘Negro is my brother’ stuff comes DIRECTLY from the Zionist/Communist playbook, and can be traced back to Marx, and NOT St. Mark of Ephesus.

    Orthodoxia ki thanatos.

  129. Skip Baker May 15, 2009 @ 7:06 am

    The right to be wrong is vanishing.

    In 1969 I spent a week in Munich having fun and met a German girl when I was staying at a famous hotel there. I asked to be taken to Dachau because, being only 8 miles away, I wanted to see it.

    “We don’t need to waste our time seeing that” she said “it’s just propaganda.”

    I thought she was just “wrong” and put the matter in the back of my head and we went swimming with her friends. Back then one had “the right to be wrong.” Now since the Edomites have taken over the world, the “right to be wrong” is vanishing.

    It will go away totally when the Jewish Bankers, the 8th Beast of Revelation 17, pass their Hate Laws and demand that everybody worship their Babylonian religion or be killed by the Beast. Is America truly the New Jerusalem that some ministers are saying it is, and are the tribes that are here from the 12 tribes of true Israel, the ones that will fight the beast, and give up their lives because they “loved not their lives unto death?”

    Will Great Babylon fall by 2012? Are the 144,000, 12,000 from each tribe, now fighting the Beast on the Internet because they are “not defiled with women” and are “virgins” because they have not “fornicated” with the false religion of Christian Zionism? “And in their mouths was found no guile for they are without fault before the throne of God.”

    If my poor attempt at math is right the amount of time that the Mark of The Beast will last is only 22 days, if the “10 nations” give their power to the Beast for “one hour.” Anybody could make it for 22 days, without “buying or selling” especially if the Lord “cuts short” the “Time of Jacob’s Trouble.” The Mark is now upon us and ready to be installed.

    If we are all true Israel we are now fighting “the Beast” and this is the Battle of Armageddon” taking place on the Internet, because the Saints see that the Great River Euphrates has “dried up” and Babylon is about to fall. The 8th Beast is the Third one reborn, because it is Great Babylon, the second time around.

    The Babylonian religion carried back by the Scribes and Pharisees is here again just like it was before the time of Christ. The same spirit of “Mystery Babylon” that killed Christ is here again in its full power and glory, and no wonder John “wondered in great admiration” at the third Beast reborn. The Beast that “was” and “is not” but would rise again “out of the abyss and go to perdition.”

    At any rate the “right to be wrong” is long gone in Europe, Canada and Australia and only the US is left barely hanging on to fight the battle. Will the battle or Armageddon end in victory for the true Children of Israel here on the walls of the New Jerusalem?

    Skip

  130. apollonian May 15, 2009 @ 7:13 am

    Christianity Is Anti-Semitic–And Doesn’t Care About, And Doesn’t Need, “Miracles” For Its Truth
    (Apollonian, 15 May 09)

    Fr. Joseph, I suspected u might come back with a childish answer as u gave.

    As an adult with a functional mind, useful for the genuine information of serious fellow humans, u’d understand that all u do in ur given answer is REDUCE everything to “miracle”–which then becomes pretty meaningless and useless for serious information. “Everything is a ‘miracle.’”–okay, right–whatever u say.

    But I struggled with Christian msg as rationalist–as rationalist I still am. And I thought there was no evidence for God, much less Christ. But then I realized–also in all reason–that hey, just because there’s no evidence doesn’t mean there still isn’t God, hence Christ.

    Most of all, what u forget, Fr. Joseph, is that Christ had some practical things to tell us for use here on earth, and greatest thing, according to Gosp. JOHN is that THERE IS SUCH THING AS “TRUTH”–and that it was Christ’s purpose to bear witness to such truth (JOHN 18:37).

    Thus truth then necessarily requires OBJECTIVITY as criterion, and Christ affirms Aristotle (at least indirectly).

    And it is precisely this assurance of such TRUTH (and objectivity) that encourages us with confidence to press on with life’s great struggle and challenge against overwhelming conspiratorial lies of Jews (NOT just “zionists”) and their infernal accomplices.

    So humans don’t need “miracles” to understand TRUTH and Christ’s msg. Miracles are totally and absolutely irrelevant–and that’s another truth which rationalist and honest Christian can well and easily understand.

    And now let me inform of a very serious Christian TRUTH. Note the greatest Christian ETHIC, in honor of such truth, is HONESTY–not “love.” Following fm honesty is JUSTICE. And that JUSTICE is precisely why we MUST NOT “LOVE” Jews, but rather, being honest, treating them with JUSTICE they deserve.

    Remember Christian “love” can mean various things–I consider we only need be willing to be friendly–and this qualifies under the general heading of “love.”

    So in spirit of that Christian willingness to be friends, we consider Jews who by definition are Talmudists–see RevisionistHistory.org, TruthTellers.org, and Come-and-hear.com for best Talmudic expo/ref.

    And Christian honesty and justice require that we cannot and must not “love” Talmudic murderers of Christ, proud that they murdered Christ–for it’s simply impossible, disgusting even to contemplate, and a just and benevolent God WOULD NOT REQUIRE that we “love” such gross, filthy, and despicable murderers–which would actually constitute TORTURE.

    CONCLUSION: So that’s what I have to say about Christian Truth, miracles, and “love”–not to mention Jews, Talmudic enemies of God and man. Bro. Kapner needs to get a clue: Christianity is anti-semitic (anti-Talmud, as Gosp. MARK 7:1-13, and JOHN 8:44), and if u’re not anti-semitic, u ain’t no Christian, pilgrim. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonian

  131. Michael K. May 15, 2009 @ 7:37 am

    Dear jgalindes,

    Perhaps the ’secular’ phase of the NWO is a precursor to the ‘religious’ phase. There are indications this is so. If so, the great danger is that old religion such as we have known it will be done for.

    In a dialectic process, if one secretly wishes to establish his own religion as supreme, one will first undermine ALL religion with a deluge of pornographic secular ka-ka, doubting skeptics with megaphones, and editorials that God is dead if not outright criminal.

    Then, when the inevitable collapse of the social fabric occurs, the the emergency will threaten our existence, leading to a radical ‘democratic’ outcry for the re-establishment of ‘conservative’ religious guidance.

    This is the point in the dialectic where the ’synthesis’ occurs. Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis being the dialectical process. The “politics of the radical center” will demand a universal and total religious structure mixing all religious themes together, calling itself Christ.

    This is what C. S. Lewis, an Anglican Christian called TASHLAN, in his book “The Last Battle.” Here “The Inexorable, Invulnerable Tash”, an equivalent to Allah in Islam, is slyly combined with “Aslan” , who represents Christ.

    Secular Jew Babylon is a phase meant to bring about collapse and precipitate reaction, in my opinion. The actual outcome is likely to be Luciferic World Theocracy.

    By the way, if you can’t tell, I believe Christ saves all people of all races. Peace in Christ.

  132. Maria May 15, 2009 @ 8:09 am

    @kath Julianne

    “This article, after all of Pope Benedict’s public efforts at friendship, moderate-mindedness and reconciliation between “the Christian” and “the Jew”, only proves that no matter how hard someone tries not to be an “anti-semite”, that mental illness is still a Jewish disease; “the Talmudic Jew” is still a rude, crude racist/religious bigot, and “appeasement” means “my way or the highway, GTFOutta here, ya bum”. Zionism is spiritual insanity fueled by holocaustmania.”

    You got that right–

    How in the great heavens is it possible to attempt to reconcile in “peace and love” with these monstrous and murderous people who believe it a religious duty to hate, “never forget and never forgive”, to destroy and defile everything that is held sacred and cherished by others than the almighty Jewish obnoxes, enabled by apostate Christian Zionists?

    1. Stop funding Zionism
    2. Reform elections
    3. Christian unity

  133. Stav May 15, 2009 @ 8:38 am

    Hi jgalindes,

    Just a couple of things,

    I for one, do not feel contempt for Catholics. I do however feel differentiated due to some serious doctrinal differences and differences of attitude. Sometimes, I feel compelled to let this known. I am guessing that most Catholics do feel similar things about the Orthodox. If there were no differences at all, then there would be just one Church.

    In general however, we share (or should share) the same fight against Zionism.

    Also, forgive me, English is not my native language, I did not understand your phrase: ‘peace of the ordained’. Please explain.

    Stav

  134. jgalindes May 15, 2009 @ 11:21 am

    Dear Stav,

    I assume that you and Fr Joseph are priests.

    Am I right.

    English is not my first language either.

    I tried to convey empathy with your general statements in this threads.

    To tell you the truth I was not thinking on you when I wrote “feel contempt for Catholics”.

    One particular phrase of yours caught my attention:

    “One important thing is this. Zionists, Jews, Greeks, Russians, Blacks, Whites, whatever, all people are our brothers. In Orthodoxy, all people are viewed as images of God. Thus, we must all wish the best possible for all of the people mentioned above, including Zionists. We can, and must pray for them, and this, as I will show below may be the most important thing we do for them, and us.”…because you assured my inclusion!

    So hope its all clear now.

  135. jgalindes May 15, 2009 @ 12:01 pm

    Dear Michael K

    Yes,I agree with you,they will try to enforce an universal religion, one that is palatable to everybody, one with all the hidden kabalistic purposes and values.

    One in which Jesus Christ is not God, our redeemer, may be something like the “architect of the universe”…

    Look the subject matter of the thread carry the interesting title ‘Death of the jewish state?’.

    And I guess that in a given moment I had a clear glimpse of a certain split internal to the jews.

    And it was back in 1992 and 1994 when, according to my best knowledge, they bombed their own Embassy and Charity building (AMIA) in Buenos Aires, Argentina.

    The struggle between different ‘points of views’ regarding the future of the State of Israel as a secular or religious entity generated more than 100 deaths!.

    See, starting with the King David Hotel bombing, several bombings in Africa, Murray building in the States and who knows, twin towers in NY, all of them were apparently false flag operations with many similarities.

    Indicating much of the same perpetrator…

    So all this state of affairs might posibly be a continuation of the same ol split.

    Remenber during the unilateral attack (they call war) against the Palestineans, it was profusedly shown Rabbis instructing IDF soldiers to kill “AMALEK”.

    So you can see one side of the divide in action…

  136. jgalindes May 15, 2009 @ 12:06 pm

    Fr John
    May I ask if you are an Ortodox priest.

    I went through some old threads here and couldn’t find a clue.

  137. Michael K. May 15, 2009 @ 2:05 pm

    Dear RZN Christians,

    What follows is an excerpt from Rense.com which I believe lends credence to what I’ve been saying, namely that the Fourth Reich is already here, it has been here, and it may be known by the fruit which it bears. Furthermore, it is being used in what I identify as a leftwing Masonic way by Lyndon Larouche in an attempt to stir up revolution, which we have already endeavored to establish causes an even greater departure from Constitutional government than presently exists. So again, it‘s not only whether or not a fact is true, but to what USE IS IT BEING PUT? :

    See the whole article at :

    http://www.rense.com/general85/hitt.htm

    (LPAC)-What would you think about a scholarly article entitled: “What Are the Potential Cost Savings from Legalizing Physician-Assisted Suicide?” If you knew no more than the title, you might wonder if it was written by the grandaddy of British utilitarianism, Jeremy Bentham; or perhaps by LSD-pervert Aldous Huxley; or by Nazi doctor Karl Brandt.
    Good guesses… but wrong.
     
    This is the title of a 1998 paper co-authored by Ezekiel Emanuel, a leading adviser to Budget Director Peter Orszag and a member of President Obama’s elite 15-person Federal Coordinating Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research. The Council is charged by the Obama administration with preparing the list of which medical procedures will henceforth be permitted, and which not, with an eye to cutting $2 trillion from health care payments-to be handed over to the bankrupt hedge funds and banks which run the HMOs.

    Brandt, Goerring, and Hitler himself have nothing on these modern Nazis. Ezekiel Emanuel’s co-author of the mentioned paper, Margaret Battin-like Emanuel, a bio-ethicist-has written other papers with sick titles like “The Least Worst Death: Selective Refusal of Treatment”; “Terminal Sedation: Pulling the Sheet Over Our Eyes”; and “Assisted Suicide: Can We Learn From Germany?” Is this any different than Hitler’s doctor Karl Brandt’s defense of euthanasia at Nuremberg: “Death can mean deliverance. Death is life-just as much as birth. It was never meant to be murder.”
     
    And don’t forget that, among the means identified at Nuremberg as causing the “murder and ill-treatment of Civilian Populations” was the “inadequate provision of surgical and medical services” - exactly the policies being imposed on the U.S. today by Summers, Geithner, Orszag, and their British masters.”
     
    As Lyndon LaRouche stated unequivocally yesterday: “The Hitler program has been revived by the Obama administration.”
     
    “This is straight Nazi stuff,” LaRouche elaborated. “It’s not a quibble; it’s not an interpretation. This is a direct copy of the philosophy of the Nazis. You cannot duck that issue. This is Nazi stuff. And it’s explicit. We know all this stuff from Hermann Goering and so forth in the 1920s, and after that with their international connections, like certain Wall Street firms. We have been warned, and we act accordingly. People who condone this are criminals, because they either knew, or should have known, what they are doing. They either knew, or should have known.”
     
    “The point is people get hesitant, and they say: ‘In the meantime, what are we going to do?’ In the meantime? There is no meantime! Either we get these guys out now, or there’s no chance: mass death occurs. That’s what happened with Hitler. There were Jewish communities that also said: ‘Look, don’t fight it, it will go away.’ It’s the same thing today.”
     
    As for the Nazi behavioral economists, LaRouche said, “these guys have to go. Because either these guys are going to go, or the President is going to go. And the President has to think through that choice. Because the American people are not going to put up with this crap. And these guys are going to find that the American people are going to say to the President: ‘You get rid of those guys, or we get rid of you.’ ”
     

  138. Maria May 15, 2009 @ 2:46 pm

    There can be no universal religion combining Christians and Jews because Jews do not accept Jesus Christ.

    As we know, the only way for Jews to come together with Christians is to renounce Judiasm and Zionism and accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior and humbly ask for his forgivenss.

    The penalty is eternal damnation.

  139. Stav May 15, 2009 @ 2:57 pm

    Hi jgalindes,

    I am not a Priest, however I have spent some time reading and learning.

    Thanks for your comments.

    Stav

  140. Stav May 15, 2009 @ 3:19 pm

    Dear Fr John,

    >>I am afraid you are mistaken. In Orthodoxy, prayers are ONLY offered to/for OTHER Orthodox- and no one else. Unlike in Protestantism, or RC’ism (who have departed from the Faith so far as to pray for outright heretics and pagans- I’ve heard it in their ‘assemblies’, I’m not making this up), the Orthodox only pray for their own.

    As a matter of fact, this is not true. I would admit that the greatest by far focus is given to praying for fellow Orthodox, however your claim is incorrect.

    Regardless the are two aspects of prayer in any case, personal and public in the congregation. Let me post some examples:

    Direct quotes from the Divine Liturgy of St. Chrysostom (These are repeated several times through out several services):

    >>For our Country, our President, our Congress, and all in seats of authority, let us pray to the Lord.

    >>For this City, and for every city and land, and for those who live in them by faith, let us pray to the Lord.

    >>For seasonable weather, the abundance of the fruits of the earth and peaceful times, let us pray to the Lord.

    >>For those who are travelling by land, air and water, for the sick, the suffering, for prisoners and captives, and for their salvation, let us pray to the Lord.

    >>Let us the faithful pray for the Catechumens, that the Lord will have mercy on them.

    There are many more examples where prayer is done for the world and all people in the official services.

    Next, there is the matter of praying in a private manner. Orthodox are encouraged to pray for their family, friends, coworkers, government, enemies, etc. etc. regardless if they are Orthodox or not. In Greece, we have a great negative history with our neighboring Turkey. It is some of our greatest saints, like Saint Cosmas, and many others, who regularly prayed for their enemies, executioners and tortures, the Turks. Also let me remind you the example of Jesus Christ Himself, who even when on the Cross, was praying for his executioners.

    Thus, it is absurd to say that the Orthodox, don’t or should not pray for anyone else but the Orthodox. Lets not fall into that trap.

    To go back to my previously statement, it is NOT a mistake to pray even for the Zionists. Believe me, you just need to follow the example of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    This is off course a completely DIFFERENT matter to the co-worshiping or co-prayin with non Orthodox, which is absolutely forbidden.

    But again, there is no rule to pray FOR just about anything, your house, your animals, your children, the world, your job, your boss, you wife, etc. etc. etc.
    That is to say, by also giving the proper perspective to the essential instructed principle of prayer, as provided by example by Jesus Christ himself:

    “Thy will be done.”
    When we ask this of God, we are including EVERYRHTING and EVERYBODY to His will. That, we must believe includes the best possible for everybody, including non-Orthodox, Zionists, Pagans, Atheists, Muslims etc. etc.

    Stav

  141. Stav May 15, 2009 @ 3:49 pm

    Hi apollonian,

    Firstly can I ask, if you do not believe, then what does your pagan and religion based/derived nickname stand for?

    You criticized Fr. Joseph’s, logic, but what about yours?

    Firstly, I see your point, it is totally logical if you do not believe in Christ or anything spiritual, to think its OK (and possibly the efficient way to go) to hate your enemies. I cannot fault you for that logic. However this is of course based on your believed premise that there is no God. At least do a favor to your self and admit to your self that your current house of cards may collapse if your premise is proven wrong.

    However, can you please tell me with what exact logical process, do you consider anyone who is against Zionism, also to be an unconditional Jew hater/anti-semite? Can you provide some fool-proof logical deduction as to how you came to the conclusion that any Christian is such an anti-semite? Also, for that matter, please provide us with a logical and sensible explanation on why you consider criticism of Zionism as being anti-semitism, given the definition of the word semite?

    Given this kind of illogical approach, I would expect you to judge all mathematicians as incapable of producing well standing mathematics, because a sub-group of them has been working of failed theorems. But you will not do that. Your ill logic is consciously confined to the subject of “anti-semitism”. You really, do know , that using this kind of logic in any other case, would sound very insensible.

    As a second matter, you mention that you have not found any evidence of God. I have a couple of pointers for you, that may give you a starting point on the fact that there are things that superceed this universe. Perhaps your search for God was either limited or biased. On the other hand may be not, I am not claiming to know what you went through to decide your current position.

    Lastly, I would say to you the following on your comment that the ETHIC of Christianity is Honesty.

    The Ethos, of Christianity, is Christ. He is our compass and it is by His example we need to live (talking about us, Christians). Hes commandment was to love our neighbor, unconditionally. TO love our enemy unconditionally. To give is one asks us to give. I will remind you that the ONE single question asked to the sinners at the day of judgment, was focused on EXACTLY this matter. The sinners were asked, by Jesus Christ, that He needed clothing and they did not give it to Him, He needed food and they did not give it to Him.

    In other words, He is the the beginning, the center and the end of it all, and it matters how we face him, through our fellow human beings, who are all Images of God.

    In addition to the above, what is to spot you from starting to hate Christians, as your next nemesis, or Muslims, or Atheists, or whites, or blacks, or non-Americans, or Americans, if it suits your purposes? If you stick to your current logic, NOTHING. This is by definition a destructive behavior, one that Zionists would love for you to perpetuate. This is their way by the way. Some call it divide and conquer but I will simply call it incitement to violence. I do believe that your current stance is actually simply a facet of the same coin of Zionism. And if you want a proof of this last statement, read this: Your Atheism, has led you to worship your self and your own judgment as perfect, when n fact you have no proof of that. Guess what, this is EXACTLY what Zionists do also!

    Of course, since you believe in no God, this is something that you may not agree with. But if you do not believe, then do not try to tell us who do, what we are all about.

    The stance I take, is clear, the way is not evil. You cannot fight fire with fire. You cannot construct by destruction and finally, you cannot reach a logical position via the vehicle of ill logic.

    Zionism must be fought, but in the spirit of truth, and constructive actions.

    Stav

  142. KathJuliane May 15, 2009 @ 4:18 pm

    JGalindes- “Sincerely, without any intention of rude polemics, I understand that here we are all Christians of different denominations, its true, but EQUAL in front of GOD.
    Even Jews , with all its malignity deserves our love.
    New Nation is a web-site of white supremacists.”

    Response: Dear JGalindes, Greetings in our Lord Jesus, and may He bless you, and please pray for His mercy on me, a sinner, and poor example of a Christian.

    Fr. John has stated before that he is an Orthodox priest, and taking him at his word, beyond this it is unknown which canonical community he is ordained to, or who his bishop is, which of course he does is not required to disclose.

    I myself am a baptized convert into the Serbian Orthodox Church here in North America. I don’t presume to speak for my beloved and precious adoptive Serbs who are much better Christians than I, except to attempt to champion their cause in my adopted homeland of Serbia and Kosovo, the cradle of Orthodox Serbia, or for the Orthodox Church in any official capacity. Anything from me is my own responsibility, but I labor to speak from the Orthodox Christian worldview.

    Stavros, my overseas Greek kinsman by blood on my father’s side (my grandfather came from near Athens and grandmother from the Peloponnese) and Orthodox co-religionist, has stated the correct teaching of Christian faith as found in the Nicene Creed where the Son of God, “who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate”, and etc.

    Fr. John occasionally presents interesting opinions on certain things that are not generally the ancient viewpoints of the true heart and “patristic mind” of Orthodoxy.

    Fr. John wrote: “No, God is not beholden to ‘love everyone.’ This is a false egalitarian, Unitarian/Universalist lie that has trickled down to the common man.”

    Response: “You have heard [from the Law of Moses] that it was said ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I SAY to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain to the just and unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? Therefore you shall be perfect just as your Father in heaven is perfect”. Matthew 5:43-48

    [Here our Lord Jesus Christ changes this law. Being Christ our God, He can change His own law, and did so a number of times, calling Christians to a higher standard in the Law of Christ on the foundations of the Law of Moses. One of the Lord’s radical commands: to love our enemies as a true expression of the life in the Kingdom.

    Having freed us, if we struggle to live in imitation of Him, from hate, sadness, and anger, He offers the greatest possession of all—perfect love. That is a gift which can only be possessed by the one who, by the grace of God and the power of the Spirit, manifests God’s love for all. Such love calls us to bless, do good, and pray—even for our enemies. Love of neighbor is the sign of having become a true child of God.

    Love is not merely an emotion. It is a divine grace—an uncreated energy—which inflames the soul and unites it to God and to other people. This is the higher Orthodox Christian standard we are called to, dear Fr. John.]

  143. Stav May 15, 2009 @ 4:26 pm

    A small addition to the matter of praying for the non-Orthodox. It is important to note that in Orthodoxy, prayer is usually to follow specific rules and formats. Thus, one of these implied rules (perhaps even mentioned in some cannot I am not aware of) is not to incite scandal during praying with the congregation. Thus, specifically naming the names of non-Orthodox is not done in Services, but general prayers such as the ones I mentioned or the one quoted below are definitely present:

    >>Illumine with the light of grace all apostates from the Orthodox Faith, and those blinded by pernicious heresies, and draw them to Thyself, and unite them to Thy Holy, Apostolic, Catholic Church.

    In our private prayers, again, we should not be will full, but rather allow the will of God prevail. This is clearly important when it comes to prayers for our selves, but also anything else we pray for.

    To clarify on my previous message about praying for the non-Orthodox, it is in this spirit one can and should pray in person.

    Let me close this matter by quoting the following prayer, which shows the spirit which should encompass all our prayers to God:

    A Prayer for the Acceptance of God’s Will

    Lord, I do not know what to ask of You. You alone know what my real needs are. You love me more than I myself know how to love. Help me to see my real needs which are hidden from me. I am afraid to ask for either a cross or consolation. I can only wait on You. My heart is open to You. Visit me and help me for the sake of Your great mercy. Strike me and heal me, cast me down and raise me up. In silence I worship Your holy will and Your ways which are beyond my understanding. I offer myself as a sacrifice to You. I put all my trust in You. I want nothing more than to fulfill Your will. Teach me how to pray. Pray Yourself in me. Amen.
    (taken from: http://www.acrod.org/sn/sn2e.html and http://www.kurskroot.com/orthodox_prayers.html)

    Stav

  144. Lynda May 15, 2009 @ 4:37 pm

    Well spoken, KathJuliane. I am sure you speak for oxthodoxy on this one (as well as for the Catholics, the Reformed, Protestant and Evangelical)

    The “higher Orthodox Christian standard” I would say is the Christian standard as in:

    Our Lord’s Great Commission to his Apostles:
    “Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost”
    Gospel according to St Matthew 28:19

    I have attended a lot of Christian faith communities and I have never heard a non European Christian referred to as ‘a hominid.’

  145. Stav May 15, 2009 @ 4:44 pm

    Hi KathJuliane,

    I agree with your comments. In fact, theologically speaking, God in His trinity, IS love, He is this way as a Trinity, to be Love and he IS love because he is in this way. Please forgive my simplistic expression in the previous sentence I do not like to describe God in such ways. I am merely trying to rephrase the theology behind the Holy Trinity.

    So to conclude on that subject, that is also the whole point/meaning of the Trinity, which is perfect love, some much so, that it is beyond our understanding.

    To tell you the truth, I cannot see how God’s all encompassing Love is disputed by a Christian, when we see Jesus Christ on the Cross, forgiving and praying for the people who crucified him. And what about all the statements He made, and actions He took, that prove without a shadow of a doubt that it was and is His Love that drove and drives all his actions? And as you mention from the creed, he died for ALL of us, not just some of us, is that not the ultimate expression of love?

    It is important to note here, the practical aspect of this. EVERYONE is invited to the dinner (church), EVERYONE. Just that simple fact shows that He cares for ALL of us. What else is there that can possibly contradict this simple parable? He has set the table for ALL of us, period.

    There are countless other things one could mention about love and how it is expressed, implied and advised on us Christians, by Christ, the scriptures, tradition, by the example of our saints, in theological and practical ways etc. etc. But I think the above is enough to convince any one who can follow its logic.

    Why over-analyze and doubt such an obvious, simple and defining point of our faith? I cannot help but feel slightly suspicious about that.

    Stav

  146. Maria May 15, 2009 @ 5:18 pm

    “Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.” (Jeremiah 7:20)

    “But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched.” (Jeremiah 17:27)

    “And say to the forest of the south, Hear the word of the LORD; Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will kindle a fire in thee, and it shall devour every green tree in thee, and every dry tree: the flaming flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be burned therein.” (Ezekiel 20:47)

  147. jgalindes May 15, 2009 @ 5:28 pm

    Dear KathJuliane and Stav

    Of course you both are blessed Christians.

    I confess that, even having been educated in a Salesian school, I’m totally ignorant on Orthodox Church particularities.

    I’m reading patristic literature, because I felt that It will close a gap in my understanding.

    I live in a place, a large city in Brasil, travelled many times around the world always on business, and went exactly 22 times to the United States.

    Unfortunately, this place I live is almost thoroughly taken by pseudo-protestant sects.

    I guess you can’t imagine the kind of Christianism this people believe and practice.

    Almost anybody takes the ‘pastor’ title, opens a “church” (any garage for that sake…) and start ‘preaching’.

    Its even difficult to find a Catholic Church and when you find one, you see they are used to the “canned post-conciliar” liturgy.

    I’m not the kind of guy adept to polemics, so I’ll let both Mr Apollonian and Fr. John live with their preconceived ideas.

    Unfortunately I’ve been unable to post during the last two hours a reply to Fr John, always stoped by the anti-spam software.

    To finish I can hardly foresee any triumph in the struggle against the Jews, having a deeply divided Church.

    And we must always be aware of smart elements infiltrating this kind of site to divide us even more!

    May Christ Jesus protect you both.

  148. jgalindes May 15, 2009 @ 5:52 pm

    @ Fr John

    Ok, let’s start here.

    Br. Nathanael might have called the jews deicides and I agree with him, it would be nonsense negate this firm historical fact.

    I do not blindly follow Roman Catholic Dogma and plainly reject any absolving of guilt by the Vatican.

    I believe this is one of the many ‘genuflections’ performed by RCC at their on ‘count and risk’.

    Let’s us go back in time, to the time Europeans came to America and carried with them ‘the good news’.

    According to your way of thinking, then, Christianizing natives was wrong.

    But at that time there were not yet false Egalitarian/Unitarian/Universalist doctrines (communism, Zionism???, socialism ,etc).

    So, how can you explain the marvelous missionary work of the much demonized Jesuits,for example???.

    And, if love and compassion did not move the heart of the first missionaries,
    what else?.

    Observe that I’m not trying to interpret scripture to satisfy my argument.

    I’m quite sure it’s full of love for every single human being on the earth!

  149. jgalindes May 15, 2009 @ 5:54 pm

    @ Fr John

    continuation…

    Correct , Talmudism is one of the worse forms of racialism.

    According to the Jews they are even better than you, that show a deep white supremacism.

    To them you are an animal, exactly like me, correct?

    You see, one does not exclude the other.

    And both are equally dangerous to mankind(w/r to German racial practices during II world war).

    I’ll let to anybody watch for themselves what kind of website is New Nation.

    Hominids is a word used basically in the natural sciences to differentiate man from lower forms of human beings,it may even include certain apes.

    For sure the Gospel is not written for animals…

    And to finish I’ll not ask to Br. Nathanael to confirm that prayers in the Ortodox Church are just for Orthodox brethren.

    He knows perfectly well I’m a Catholic and I have received from him with much joy his prayers.

    Fr.John, which is your proposal to fight jews.? Please be clear and direct.

  150. KathJuliane May 15, 2009 @ 7:06 pm

    “I am afraid you are mistaken. In Orthodoxy, prayers are ONLY offered to/for OTHER Orthodox- and no one else. Unlike in Protestantism, or RC’ism (who have departed from the Faith so far as to pray for outright heretics and pagans- I’ve heard it in their ‘assemblies’, I’m not making this up), the Orthodox only pray for their own.”

    Response: Incorrect. In Orthodoxy, intercessory prayers ask Jesus Christ, our God, to “first of all remember Your Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church…to confirm and strengthen it, enlarge and multiply it, keep it in peace, and preserve it unconquerable by the gates of hell forever. Heal the schisms of the churchs, quench the ragings of the heathen, speedily undo and root out the growth of heresies, and bring them to naught by the power of Your Holy Spirit.”

    It says “first of all remember”, not “only just pay attention to” the Orthodox people.

    There are certainly numerous prayers in the canonized Divine Liturgies for the preservation of the suffering Orthodox Church, many with very ancient origins, but nowhere in Orthodoxy is prayer to God ever understood to be ONLY offered to/for OTHER Orthodox in the exclusive context you present.

    “Save, O Lord, and have mercy upon the old, the young, the needy, the orphans and the widows, and on ALL that are in sickness and in sorrow, in distress and affliction, in oppression and captivity, in prison and confinement.” [Please notice the transition to the next part of this ancient intercessory prayer from the general ALL of mankind, to the specific servants of Christ]. “More especially have mercy upon Your servants who are under persecution for Your sake and for the sake of the Orthodox Faith at the hands of heathen nations, of apostates and heretics: remember them, visit, strengthen, keep, and comfort them, and make haste to grant them, by your power, relief, freedom, and deliverance.”

    Following your own logic to its conclusion, then Orthodox are only supposed to extend love, charity, fellowship, and mercy to only other Orthodox, to the elitist exclusion of everyone else in the world, just as the Talmud propounds on the lips of its Rabbis. You further define “Orthodox” as being “European and White”.

    No, Orthodoxy is “Eastern and Color-blind”, being a Church that has many people of color throughout different cultures and nations. Our Lord Jesus Christ is concerned with only the “whiteness” of a person’s soul, that is, its measure of spiritual purity on Judgment Day. Mine’s not so good, how is yours?

    Sounds a little too “Jewish” the way you present it as some kind of justification for Christian exclusiveness, when there is no such thing, not even found in our most glorious Lord and Savior, Who is the Light of Israel to All Nations.

  151. Maria May 15, 2009 @ 8:07 pm

    I see recent posts struggling with distinctions about how to regard the Talmudists.

    Yes, all are invited to the table, but not all accept the invite. You cannot make someone choose to follow JesusChrist.

    Christianity is inclusive to those who are open to it..to those who are closed, i.e, the Talmudists, Christ has condemned…

    http://faithalone.org/news/y1990/90oct2.html

    “Both Matthew 10 and 11 mention a coming day of judgment for unbelievers. That judgment is called the Great White Throne Judgment. At that judgment books of the deeds of unbelievers will be opened (Rev 20:12). We are specifically told that all unbelievers will be “judged according to their works” (Rev 20:12). The reason for this judgment is not to determine whether these people get into the kingdom or not. According to John 3:18 unbelievers are “condemned already.” All at the Great White Throne will already be condemned and already know that. The purpose of the Great White Throne Judgment is, rather, to determine the appropriate degree of suffering for each unbeliever. The worse an unbeliever lives in this life, the worse hell will be for him.

    “Jesus said in John 8:24, “If you do not believe that I am He [the Messiah/Savior], you will die in your sins.” Unbelievers die in their sins and are judged accordingly.”

    “God is completely fair. While entrance to heaven is a free gift, rewards there will be proportional to the degree of one’s godliness. While entrance to hell is due to rejecting the free gift.”

    “Notice, too, that greater punishment is reserved for those who had greater light and rejected it. Those who saw Jesus and His disciples and the miracles they performed and rejected the Gospel are due greater judgment. So the judgment will take into account opportunity as well as actual performance. “

  152. Isabella May 15, 2009 @ 8:47 pm

    http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/05/15/the_days_of_pro_choice_republicans/?p1=Well_MostPop_

    “Lately, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has mused about the case that got away - the one she would have liked to argue before the court back when she was a women’s rights litigator.

    Susan Struck was an Air Force captain, a nurse, when she got pregnant in 1970. Her commanding officer said she had two choices: abortion or resignation. Struck picked a third choice: a lawsuit. Ginsburg, then an ACLU lawyer, argued that the regulation banning pregnant women from service was sex discrimination. She also argued that Struck’s right to bear or not bear a child was her personal choice. Government intervention was a violation of her liberty.

    The case was heading to the Supreme Court when Solicitor General Erwin Griswold - former head of Harvard Law School, where he treated female students with disdain - figured that he was going to lose. So the savvy solicitor advised the armed services to change the rules, and the case became moot.

    Today, it is mind-bending to think about how different the debate might have been if the first Supreme Court case arguing for the right to decide had been brought by a woman wanting to have a baby.”

    Yes, how would our society have been different if a case involving pregnancy discrimination came to the Supreme Court in 1973 instead of Roe vs. Wade?

    I envision that there could have been widespread accomodation for working women with children, flexible working hours, telecommuting, flexible work contracts, etc. some of which is present today. And a better overall value system that a child is not something to be gotten rid of, but something society needs to prepare for..

    Ellen Goodman, comes to a different conclusion:

    “Would we have better understood this reality: a government that can force a woman to have an abortion is the same government that can force a woman to continue the pregnancy?”

    The question Goodman poses, is an error in reasoning known as “The False Dilemna.”

    Susan Struck clearly wanted to have her child and she also wanted her job and the right thing to do was for the government to accomodate both.

  153. Lynda May 16, 2009 @ 12:46 am

    Well at the end of antipope Benedict’s junket to Israel, the Jewish state looks fairly robust to me.

    Once again we see why they are not the most kids at the block party - pigging out on the n.o. catholic church, I guess that would be fressing the n.o. and the ‘pope’, kvetching about their eternal suffering while their white phosphorus is still smouldering in Gaza and pontificating that any anti-Semitism (criticism of the Jews or Israel) is a sin against all humanity and G_d Almighty.

    As antipopes go, Benedict is not the worst by a long shot. His mission of abject humiliation and prostration to the Master Race and ‘divine gods on this planet’ may have bought precious time for the Church.

    He does have some fortitude that Benedict, sitting there with his tray table stowed, his seat in the upright position and restraining himself from using the barf bag.

  154. Stav May 16, 2009 @ 1:13 am

    Dear Maria,

    Just some expansion on what you said:

    >>Yes, all are invited to the table, but not all accept the invite. You cannot make someone choose to follow JesusChrist.

    Yes, true, there are many groups of people and individuals who choose not to “come to the table”. The main point of that was to say that Jesus has set the table for us all, thus he cares for us all.

    Zionists, Talmudists have this luciferian hatred towards Christ and they choose to do anything possible to stay away from the table, but also resort to vulgar characterisations of Him, His table and His followers. That is their own, eternal loss.

    However, once in a while, we have people like Br. Nathanael who are blessed with a homecoming unlike any other. These people are proof that God is there with open arms, for anyone who decides to follow Him, no matter their background. Something tells me that many more of them will join us! There are good people in all walks of life, and God will not leave them without help!

    Stav

  155. KathJuliane May 16, 2009 @ 1:41 am

    Greetings in our Lord Jesus, dear JGalinda,

    Apart from all the particular differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, there is a great difference in orientation in the two faiths in approaching Christ. The Orthodox experience of Christianity, while having many historical and apostolic traditional elements in common with Catholicism, has a very distinctive “feel”, simply a way of thinking and of doing things.

    Perhaps most significantly, is that Orthodoxy views theology less as an exercise in reason than as an attempt to express an ineffable mystery in worship, and to include worship in as much of everyday life as possible in the daily and weekly liturgical cycles.

    Orthodox theology indicates the way to the ineffable mystery of the Revelation of God Incarnate in the Person of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, and attempts to only to define dogmatically through the precise use of Holy Scripture pointing to this ineffible mystery, in order to precisely draw “a fence” around the inexplicable of Revealed Truth, and formulate the Symbol of Faith (Nicene Creed) in precise credal statements in order to root out heresy and errors. Then the Fathers labored to describe in higher thought what this ineffible mystery was apophatically, that is describing it by way of what it is not.

    More than anything, our “theology” is instructed through experiencing the rich wealth of the divine liturgies themselves, which are very ancient, and are rooted in the fabric of the worship and hymnography found in Scripture as was in the ancient Temple and Synagogue.

    Theology in the Catholic West seems to be largely a matter of precise definition and syllogistic deduction, highly philosophical and rationalistic in nature, relying on the Scholasticism of Catholic tradition. In the Orthodox East theology is largely a matter of living doxology which is entirely anchored in Scripture and Holy Tradition, which was bounded in its parameters by the labors of the Seven Ecumenical Councils; of bowing in reverent wonder before the ineffable; it is less concerned with philosophical precision than with experiencing the incomprehensible.

    The magnificent organization of the Roman Church also comes with a legalism that seems to pervade the Catholic experience, defining the ineffable by “making completely explicit” in clear-cut, black and white terms. How does one make completely explicit a vast ineffable mystery such as Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Crucifixion and His glorious Resurrection?

    In Orthodoxy, Revelation was delivered for once and for all through the Cross, but as limited, fallen and sinful humans, there is much that will continue to remain a profound mystery until the Last Day. Not because it is actually “hidden”, but because the human mind can’t grasp anything but the fringes of Divine Mystery in words and thoughts, and the heart and soul may experience things that cannot be expressed in words, or else expressed through sacred art, architecture, hymnography, and the chanted poetry of worship.

    Out of historical necessity during the collapse of the civil structure in the Western Roman Empire with the fifth century onslaught of the various invasions of the Barbarians (“foreign speakers” who did not speak Latin or Greek), civil administration and affairs of State devolved onto the shoulders of the western Churches, the Latin archbishops and bishops, and the Pope of Rome as the only surviving organized network of Roman institutions capable of functioning and assuming a political role, that were systematically literate, and had to deal extensively with Roman civil law and worldly concerns in the disorder of the rise of the petty states which eventually fused into the Frankish kingdoms.

    Eventually, the Latin law tradition came to be used for dogma, doctrines and theological expression as well. Latin, because it is a concrete, precise and direct language is superb for law, government, administration, planning, engineering and science, and military use, also, like English, does not have the nuances and subtle contexts of the Greek in expressing Greek thought, which itself had long centuries of formal development and discipline before the Christian era. In the early Church it was the Greek Fathers that set the pace in mapping out the theologies and dogmas of Faith.

    It was in the 5th century when the bi-lingual Latin Fathers, like Blessed Augustine and St. Jerome, were just catching up in their expressions of theological Latin thought in the West, when the barbarian invasions occured and the turmoil arrested the further development. The reason is pretty simple, as historical forces separated the East and West culturally, and the bi-lingual ability to read and write both languages in any part of the empire was lost.

    As a consequence, legalistic emphasis of the Catholic Church had a profound effect not only on its administrative style but also on its theological orientation. Salvation, for example, is explained in legal terms; in dying Christ paid the sentence that had been justly imposed on the human race as a result of sin—death and condemnation. Salvation is thus explained largely in forensic terms of expiation of debt and removal of a just sentence—legal categories.

    And honestly, to an Orthodox, this view is not found very satisfying. Why would a loving God require such a price? Was the Father really so angry and vengeful that He would require the death of His own Son in order to be simply appeased? No, not in the least. And like Paul said, the Law is necessary to expose sin, and we do need to humbly realize that we are in deep spiritual debt to God far over our fallen heads, that it is completely impossible to perfectly keep the Law, and stand condemned because of this fact, completely convicted. This is God’s justice, but what about His mercy?

    The price is metanoia-a change of mind, or repentence, turning towards Christ, assuming His yoke. God is swift to mercy that we sinners don’t deserve, and slow to the justice that we do.

    In the Orthodox view, to be saved is not to be freed from a sentence imposed by God, but to be transformed by Him, to be restored to what He meant us to be. Knowing how far we are fallen is knowing a lot. As a convert, when I learned the principle on which the whole Orthodox spiritual tradition is based: God became a man so that humankind through Christ could become divine. This process of divinization is known as theosis.

    To be sure, we human beings can never become God by nature or know His ineffable essence, as the only-begotten Son of God can know and declare that, but the human being was never meant to exist in separation from God, which is Original Sin. Salvation is meant to draw us back into communion with God.

    Only in being “energized” by grace, which the Orthodox know is not a created commodity but the very Presence of the Uncreated One conveyed to his creature, can human nature be what is truly meant to be. When it speaks of divinization, Orthodox theology is really speaking of true humanization, the restoration of mankind and creation to the state in which they were created, wearing garments of God’s own Uncreated Light, which will be fully accomplished on the Last Day. In that sense we are all meant to be “partakers of the divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4).

  156. Stav May 16, 2009 @ 2:49 am

    From the readings of today (New Calendar):

    The reading is from Acts of the Apostles 12:1-11

    ABOUT THAT TIME, Herod the king laid violent hands upon some who
    belonged to the church. He killed James the brother of John with the
    sword; and when he saw that it pleased the Jews, he proceeded to arrest
    Peter also.

    Remind you of anything that is happening in our times also?

    Stav

  157. Stav May 16, 2009 @ 2:51 am

    Hi All,

    Wow these seem relevant in the context of these discussions!

    Again, from the readings of the Orthodox Church for today (New Calendar)

    Gospel Reading

    The reading is from John 8:31-42

    The Lord said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you continue
    in my word, you are truly my disciples, and you will know the truth,
    and the truth will make you free.” They answered him, “We are
    descendants of Abraham, and have never been in bondage to any one. How is it
    that you say, ‘You will be made free’?”

    Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, every one who commits
    sin is a slave to sin. The slave does not continue in the house for
    ever; the son continues for ever. So if the Son makes you free, you
    will be free indeed. I know that you are descendants of Abraham; yet
    you seek to kill me, because my word finds no place in you. I speak
    of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard
    from your father.”

    They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If
    you were Abraham’s children, you would do what Abraham did, but now
    you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth which I heard
    from God; this is not what Abraham did. You do what your father did.”
    They said to him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one
    Father, even God.” Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you
    would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of
    my own accord, but he sent me.”

    Stav

  158. Stav May 16, 2009 @ 4:22 am

    Hi KathJuliane,

    Great Post.
    one thing i would like to add, is that despite the more spiritual approach of the Orthodox, it must be said that Orthodox Theology is far from lacking in logic and the presentation of its findings, in a logical manner. After all, the Greek Language , is one that has grown and in a reciprocal way assisted logical thinking, philosophy and eventually when the time was right, Theology.

    It is more that the spirit of Latin is of this world, material, rather than the Greek, which is more wide in its capability to describe non-material concepts and thus becomes more spiritual.
    It is amazing to see how language can affect the whole ethos of a people or institution, but its true, the differences between the Catholic and the Orthodox, closely match the differences of Latin vs Greek.

    Stav

  159. jgalindes May 16, 2009 @ 5:01 am

    Dear KathJuliane,

    Peace of the Lord Jesus be with you.

    I just read really fast your message and will come back later to read it again and digest your learned words.

    See,how important is to study not only theology buy also Church history.

    I really appreciate your continuing dedication and be sure you are helping this somewhat disoriented soul.

    I think that I wasted precious time studying the jews ,but I guess that it was necessary.

    I’ll make a confidence:

    I cann’t find peace of mind since I saw all the brutality,hate,inhuman behavior,filthness,and along series of etc,…the acts perpetrated against our Palestinean bethren.

    I ,that was perhaps without much reason a happy man,became dull and find it difficult even to smile.

    Not kidding what we saw just after Christmas was a very concrete act of the satanic dark forces that are over all of us.

    With regards,Juan

  160. Jim DeTexas May 16, 2009 @ 5:21 am

    ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
    Isabella May 15, 2009 @ 8:47 pm

    “Lately, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has mused about the case that got away - the one she would have liked to argue before the court back when she was a women’s rights litigator.

    Susan Struck clearly wanted to have her child and she also wanted her job and the right thing to do was for the government to accomodate both.
    ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤

    Pregnancy is a medical condition that renders a female unfit to continue military service. Motherhood renders a woman morally unfit to continue service outside the family home, as we can clearly see.

    Then there is this………

    Men Must Champion Feminine Women
    May 8, 2009

    A feminine woman has the effect of a sunrise on a man’s soul.

    In the words of novelist Alex Waugh, she draws a man “into a magic circle where everything is fresher, cleaner; where there is peace, warmth, comfort. She produces in him the desire to be his best.”

    Nothing on earth is so fine. On this continent, increasingly nothing is so rare.

    The Official State Gender Ideology, feminism, has decreed that femininity is a “stereotype” invented by men to oppress women.

    Feminism is no longer about equal opportunity for women. It is a thuggish, devious synthesis of Marxism and lesbianism used by ruling elites to undermine individuals and weaken society. It is to society what AIDS is to the body.

    The rest of the story here………

    http://www.henrymakow.com/051201.html

    I agree the argument would have been a lot different had it been “pregnancy discrimination” instead of Roe vs. Wade. However if Christians had of written the laws of the land instead of the Zionist how different they all would be.

  161. Maria May 16, 2009 @ 7:09 am

    Dear Stav:

    If you read Bro. N’s story, he reveals he was never like a Talmudist, he always questioned what he was being told, because he saw otherwise in Christianity.. Christianity is inclusive to all those who are open to it… and he certainly was! Christ does not expect us to take abuse from a Talmudist and you don’t see Bro. N doing that either!

    Ultimately, everyone makes their own choice, Bro. N made his and the Talmudist’ make theirs…

  162. Fr. Joseph May 16, 2009 @ 7:59 am

    Dear Apollonian,

    Throughout human history, the social function of the “Priest” has been and is to bring about an understanding, reconciliation and a common-union, a spiritual “communion” with a “God”.

    There have been and are any number of “false gods” and then there is the One and True God.

    There are “Priests” of any number and type that exist in any number of Occult, Hermetic and Esoteric sects and cults and there are “Priests” of Christ’s Church.

    You have the ability to throw anything at me in the form of words, arguments, distractions, insults, ad hominems that might come to your mind and from your heart but I still have a spiritual DUTY as well as a spiritual OBLIGATION-MANDATE from the One True God to “deal” with you with the talents and abilities that are MINE to utilize in order to bring about in you a 1) understanding of your One True God a 2) reconciliation with your One True God and a 3) common spiritual union between you and your One True God.

    So let me see what I can do with the ENTIRE WORLD watching me as I attempt to give you personalized and private “catechism” lessons.

    May the Holy Spirit of God Himself grant me the Divine Grace of the Spiritual Gift of COUNSEL so as to make these postings of mine to you vitally EFFECTIVE in your mind and heart.

    That inner spiritual change I’m working to bring about IN you is what is called in the mystical theology of the Eastern Church a ‘METANOIA’ in your most deepest core of your God-created being.

    - Fr. Joseph

  163. Fr. Joseph May 16, 2009 @ 8:10 am

    Dear Apollonian,

    Okay, so you wish to approach and deal with the Christian Church’s One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Faith in a purely “RATIONALISTIC” sense.

    Fine. Let’s do EXACTLY that then for your spiritual sake with an eye to assisting YOU obtaining the Eternal Blessed Life and Divine Gifts YOUR Heavenly Father wishes for YOU to have.

    ‘RATIONALISM’, in the form of philosophy, derives its ‘RATIONALISM’ from the Latin root word ‘RATIO’.

    Translating the Latin word ‘Ratio’ into contmeporary English obtains the current word ‘REASON’. So ‘RATIO’ means to dutifully employ human ‘REASON’!

    REASON consists of the EFFORT on the part of any man, woman or child to use their abiity to DISCERN the distinctions between the ontological nature of all manner of created things so as to make the personal effort in making a JUDGEMENT regarding those created things.

    And the ‘RATIO’, the ‘REASON’ for using DISCERNMENT coupled with JUDGEMENT in a personally DILIGENT way is so that the human being might employ WISDOM to his, her or their individual and collective actions and choices precisely BECAUSE OF the acknowledging in a very human RATIONAL way that all of us live, move and have our being in an ‘All’ that relentlessly operates under a CAUSE & EFFECT principle.

    Make bad choices, obtain bad results.
    Make good choices, obtain good results.

    Are you still with me, my dear CATECHISM Student Apollonian?

    I’ve had numerous catechism students in the past who DID NOT want to be in my ‘class’ nor did they really want to ‘learn’ and were much more PREOCCUPIED and SELF-SATISFIED with what they have already chosen as their ‘Primary Preoccupation’.

    - Fr. Joseph

  164. Fr. Joseph May 16, 2009 @ 8:15 am

    Dear Apollonian,

    Sooo….

    We as members of the Human Race make some sorts and types of an ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of a ‘God’ Who is Infinite in Divine Nature precisely on account of the RATIONALIZATION of the ontological experience of our own FINITE nature.

    We members of the Human Race DEDUCE via our inner processes of RATIONALIZATION that God is Eternal and that God is Forever Self-Propagating precisely on account of the RATIONALIZATION of the ontological experience of our need TO BE ‘propagated’ and the we MUST DO SOMETHING to ’sustain’ our life and existance and that we as individuals as well as entire communities and societies COME TO AN END at some point “in time” and that this conscious acknowledgement that we will DIE at some point in ‘time’ simply DOES NOT SIT WELL with us and within us.

    - Fr. Joseph

  165. Fr. Joseph May 16, 2009 @ 8:19 am

    Dear Apollonian,

    Soooo…

    Because of our FINITE human natures, we simply MUST accept the ontological fact and truth in ALL HONESTY to ourselves that ALL OF US have to “ask questions”.

    Having TO ASK ‘questions’ betrays to our selves and to each other that NONE OF US are ‘God’ - since God is Infinite in Divine Nature, and because God is Infinite in all things, that makes God “OMNISCIENT” to use the theological term, a word which means God “Knows ALL Things”.

    God KNOWS I’m writing this posting to you right now. He KNOWS what I’m relaying to you. He KNOWS how you are receiving this information RIGHT THIS VERY SECOND as you are reading these Priestly typed words of mine to you and FOR you.

    Are you still with me???

    - Fr. Joseph

  166. Fr. Joseph May 16, 2009 @ 8:27 am

    Dear Apollonian,

    So LIKE IT OR NOT, whether one is a Ph.D. in Church History, Theology, in matters of the Traditions and Teachings of either the Orthodox Church OR the Catholic Church, ALL OF US are “required” by Divine Will TO ASK QUESTIONS!

    Asking QUESTIONS with the HONEST admittance that none us KNOW ‘All Things’ is, at the very core of human spirituality, an act of HUMILITY!

    Asking QUESTIONS to obtain for oneself a TRUTHFUL ANSWER to that Question(s) is a vital spiritual act of being HUMBLE.

    And God LOVES “humble” people who recognize that they DON’T have all ‘The Answers’!

    Now with regards to the Human Spiritual Undertaking and “Science” of ASKING QUESTIONS in order to obtain a TRUTHFUL ANSWER, one must HUMBLY accept the ontological spiritual FACT that there are but only a FINITE NUMBER-TYPE of Questions any and all Human Beings can possible ASK!

    Those Questions are follows and ALL human questioning falls neatly and predictibly into 1 of 7 type-categories:

    1) Who?
    2) Where?
    3) When?
    4) How?
    5) Which?
    6) Where? and
    7) Why?

    - Fr. Joseph

  167. Fr. Joseph May 16, 2009 @ 8:36 am

    Dear Apollonian,

    So people the world over go on and on and on ASKING QUESTIONS all day long about ALL SORTS OF STUFF.

    But at the VERY CORE of our Human Natures, at the VERY CORE of our own personally experienced lived life WITH these Human Natures of ours are TWO SETS of Absolutely Critical, Serious, Sober and ETERNALLY VITAL Questions. And unless we get around to ASKING THEM so as to OBTAIN a Truthful Answer to them, we wind up living out our entire lifetimes as one very long series of years WASTED AWAY on every manner, sort and type of utterly FRIVOLOUS preoccupations.

    Those TWO SETS of Absolutely Vital Questions all of us MUST have the inner courage and fortitude TO ASK so as to obtain for our very selves are simply these:

    Where am I?
    When am I?
    How am I?
    Which am I?
    What am I?
    Who am I? and
    WHY AM I???

    in conjuction with and running tadem with

    Where is God?
    When is God?
    How is God?
    What is God?
    Which is God?
    Who is God? and
    WHY IS GOD?

    I think that’s enough. I don’t want to DROWN YOU in catechism ‘Information Overload’.

    Do you want for me to continue? Yes or no?

    - Fr. Joseph

  168. apollonian May 16, 2009 @ 8:47 am

    Best Christian Strategy Is Always Perfectly Rational
    (Apollonian, 16 May 09)

    My biggest problem for this site of Bro. Kapner’s is Bro. Kapner censors too much, but it’s his site, and that’s life in the big city (God’s will).

    “Stav,” I’m Christian, but since u don’t understand English I realize it’s useless talking to such as u–Bro. Kapner would censor me anyway for what I’d tell u. And I don’t think u really understand Christ whose msg was brilliant and really quite clear as I’ve already noted for this blog–I’m not going to go into it again. Christ essentially affirmed Aristotle–as even St. Thomas Aquinas acknowledged.

    Note then the problem of world is two-fold: (1) one, humans are sinners by nature (Greek TRAGEDY), and (2) Talmudists who take infernal advantage of this sinful nature–NOT just “zionists”–and our Christian apostolic task is to help our people figure out what to do, and this is what Bro. Kapner is good for, giving us pertinent news as he does. (I liked the old title much better, “Real Jew News.”)

    One good thing to remember is that life (socio-biology–see KevinMacDonald.net) and history are CYCLIC in accord w. “Decline of the West,” by Oswald Spengler.

    Thus Jew parasite disease-of-opportunity is in for big trouble after they’ve destroyed their host-victims–for then they will have to fight among themselves as we see ALREADY, the CFR-Bilderberg (see TheNewAmerican.com and AugustReview.com for expo/ref.) agents, Walt-Mearsheimer, putting “finger” on “The Israel Lobby.” “There is no honor among thieves.”

    Specifically then, problem is COUNTERFEITERS of US Federal Reserve Bank (Fed–see RealityZone.com and TheMoneyMasters.com for expo/ref.) who own and control everything, including practically ALL the establishment churches–not to mention politicians, judges, lawyers, bureaucrats, police, military, and public education–PRACTICALLY EVERYTHING in this ZOG-Mammon Empire-of-lies. For such is the incredible POWER of those who enjoy a monopoly for literal COUNTERFEITING the various peoples’ money.

    So we Christians and gentiles must fight back by means of TRUTH, REASON, and honesty–NOT stupid lies, mysticism, and childish wishful thinking and praying for idiotic “miracles.” Of course, if u’re stupid, then praying for miracles is probably only thing u can do.

    (a) Thus following the strategy of TRUTH, as I note, most essential thing to do is to INFORM people of center and source of Jew enemy power, again, that of COUNTERFEITING–that’s significance of the Fed monster.

    Note “counterfeiting” is a CONCRETE term which all people–EVEN CHILDREN–can understand. Using ABSTRACT terms like “capitalism,” “banking,” “inflation,” or “usury” is far less effective as even many smart people have difficulty understanding abstracts. Concretes, like “COUNTERFEITING,” are visualizable and directly tangible–and like I say, even children can understand.

    (b) The next thing to do is to inform the poor, deluded gentile dupes and suckers of “Judeo-Christianity” (JC–see Whtt.org and TruthTellers.org for expo/ref.) that Jews are ENEMIES of Christ, that Jews HATE Christ, and that Christ was foremost anti-semite (anti-Talmud, as Gosp. MARK 7:1-13, also JOHN 8:44). Pastor Carlson of Whtt.org gives a good example–we need more people doing what he does.

    (c) Finally, the best strictly (secular) political program to follow is that of Ron Paul (CampaignForLiberty.com) who understands the crucial nature of the Fed.

    Surely most important is INFORMATION and EDUCATION–specifically for this Fed COUNTERFEIT machine/operation which gives Jews and accomplices all their worldly, practical power.

    What is that basic common element among Jews and their gentile accomplices?–SUBJECTIVISM, by which they destroy TRUTH which NEEDS objectivity for its criterion.

    Next thing Judeo-conspirators use is MORALISM-Pharisaism by which they justify lies–esp. then “good-evil” Pelagianist delusion/fallacy/heresy, rampant in West since Rousseau, Eng. Utilitarianism, and especially Immanuel Kant–all these originating fm 17th cent.

    CONCLUSION: Who are we (patriots)?–we’re “resurrection” of those magnificent Christian soldiers led by St. Constantine the Great: “Think not I came to bring peace; rather, I come to bring a sword” (Gosp. MATT 10:34). Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonian

  169. Lynda May 16, 2009 @ 9:23 am

    If I am reading Br Nathanael’s post aright and Netanyahu perceives an American re-prioritizing of U.S. interests in the M.E. - i.e. fighting Israel’s wars. Then, I expect things are going to ‘happen’. I don’t think that the owners of America are going to permit their ZOG to depart the script without reassertion of their priorities.

    This week, the Catholic Church observes on the universal calendar The Day of Our Lord’s Ascension into Heaven (also the second Glorious Mystery of Our Lady’s Rosary). “By this means…”

    In the Ordo for the Ascension, the Sermon brings together several points of the Divine Liturgy to which the House of Faith should hold fast in times that will see more ‘regime’ change in temporal affairs.

    In Christ, the nature of mankind exalted above all creatures. “For on this wise they (the holy multitude of believers) perceived that no limit was set upon the uplifting of that nature short of the right hand of the Eternal Father. (..nec sublimitatibus modem suae provectionis habitura, nisi aeterni Patris recepta consessu)

    Original Sin becomes the “Felix Culpa” - the happy fault that won for us so great a salvation.

    In Christ our Head, we are acutally entering inot the heavenly mansions above.

    Through the unspeakable goodness of Christ, we have gained more than we ever lost by the envy of the devil (ampliora adepti per ineffabilem Christ gratiam, quam per diaboli amiseramus invidiam).

    With Christ our Head, those who believe are seated in power. This is not an abstraction. Although in these our sad times of “the hour of the power of darkness” when the power of antichrist is “given strength over the continual sacrifice and truth shall be cast down on the ground” (Dan 8:12), because of Our Lord’s Ascension, the corollarary to this is “…there is no difference in the sight of the God of heaven to deliver with a great multitude or with a small company; for success in war is not in the multitude of the army, but in the strength coming from heaven.” (Machabees III 17-18-19)

  170. Fr. John May 16, 2009 @ 9:39 am

    Stav- YOU stated:
    “Direct quotes from the Divine Liturgy of St. Chrysostom (These are repeated several times through out several services):

    >>For our Country, our President, our Congress, and all in seats of authority, let us pray to the Lord.

    >>For this City, and for every city and land, and for those who live in them by faith, let us pray to the Lord.

    >>For seasonable weather, the abundance of the fruits of the earth and peaceful times, let us pray to the Lord.

    >>For those who are travelling by land, air and water, for the sick, the suffering, for prisoners and captives, and for their salvation, let us pray to the Lord.

    >>Let us the faithful pray for the Catechumens, that the Lord will have mercy on them.

    There are many more examples where prayer is done for the world and all people in the official services.”

    Ah, but THIS liturgy was formed during Byzantium, when ALL of these offices WERE part of the Ecumene. That they are now said of the apostate offices of modern atheist regimes, masquerading as ‘democracies’ does not lessen by one iota my statement, that Orthodoxy does not pray FOR the heretic, the apostate, or the merely deluded.

    Rome and Protestantism DO- the removal of the ‘reproaches’ from Rome’s prayers removed the last inkling of that older patristic consensus, in the wake of Vatican II. As far as protestants, I have heard in the ‘prayers for the people’ prayers to such ‘luminaries’ as MLK, Bobby Kennedy, Mahatma Ghandi, etc. as if they were part of the panoply of saints- granted, this was either an UCC or an Episcopal church, but there you go.

  171. Fr. John May 16, 2009 @ 10:00 am

    “Stav”- ‘Also let me remind you the example of Jesus Christ Himself, who even when on the Cross, was praying for his executioners.Thus, it is absurd to say that the Orthodox, don’t or should not pray for anyone else but the Orthodox. Lets not fall into that trap.To go back to my previously statement, it is NOT a mistake to pray even for the Zionists. Believe me, you just need to follow the example of our Lord Jesus Christ.’

    ‘This is off course a completely DIFFERENT matter to the co-worshiping or co-prayin with non Orthodox, which is absolutely forbidden.’

    Funny- I believe it was an Orthodox saint that said, “”Live in peace not only with your friends, but also with your enemies;
    But only with your personal enemies, and not with the enemies of God.” - St. Theodosius of the Kiev Caves Lavra

    What are the Jews? Enemies of God. End of Story.
    You mention Greece, Stav. Modern Greece is not an ACTIVE Orthodox country, if this condemnation is true. “http://www.orthodoxchristianbooks.com/articles/223/ten-reasons-why-ecumenical-patriarchate-is-not-orthodox/’

    That would mean ANY liturgical resources that are post-1920’s (when this ecumenical mess started) are null and void. You can’t pick and choose. Either you are true to the faith of the fathers, or the ‘branch’ theory is true, for the Orthodox are just as ‘modernist’ as the most conservative Lutheran or Anglican, if this waffling over councils, decrees, etc. is allowed.

    Do you truly know your faith? You mention (Wrongly) the Biblical Account of Christ’s prayer for some. Well, Christ did NOT pray for the Jews on the Cross, who KNEW what they were doing- read the accounts in Luke- it is as clear as day!

    The ‘they’ in the phrase that follows, when He prayed for the Roman soldiers who did the ‘will of the Jews’, were innocent, and that was because ‘they know NOT what they are doing.’ Compare the previous verse [v. 33 of Luke, Chap. 23].

    Here, the ‘They’ mentioned in this verse directly preceding Christ’s prayer of forgiveness, are those who did the ACT of crucifixion- certainly you are not implying the Pharisees would have nailed Christ’s hands and feet- it would have ‘defiled them’ as they prepared for their specious Passover. No, it was not the Pharisees/Jews who are the ‘they’ in this verse, But the ROMANS, who DID do the dirty work the Jews were too proud to do.

    Next, compare the ‘they’ of the verse FOLLOWING Lk. 23:34. ‘And THEY parted his raiment’, etc. Again, is this the Jews, squabbling over the bloodied robe of their ‘King’ [compare John 19:15] This ‘they,’ too, is the ROMAN soldiers. The Jews’ sin remains, to this day, [ Matt. 27:25] as long as a Jew remains a Jew. Even Br. Nathanael has stated he agrees as much. Why is this ‘news’ to Orthodox? Have you never read the services for converts, and how the Jews have their own SPECIAL service, that asks FAR MORE than any other convert to Orthodoxy? Deicide is the reason why.

    No, the Zionists, and the Jews are accursed by God. St. John Chrysostom said as much 1700 years ago. “”The Jew will live under the yoke of slavery without end. God hates the Jews.”
    - Saint John Chrysostom: Six Homilies Against the Jews

  172. Fr. John May 16, 2009 @ 10:08 am

    Kath Juliane-”Fr. John occasionally presents interesting opinions on certain things that are not generally the ancient viewpoints of the true heart and “patristic mind” of Orthodoxy.”

    Actually, I try and see if more than two Orthodox authors state the same thing, and if these POV’s antedate the 1920’s on every point at which the modernists would have us believe that all is ’sweetness and light’ in the Brave New World of Multiculturalism.

    So, I beg to differ. EVERY POV I have articulated in the last five years I have studiously SOUGHT to corroborate via the Fathers (and not looking to RC sources specifically to keep away from the ‘contagion’ of RC thought), so that I am NOT ‘making it up as I go along.’

    When I am confronted by Laity and Romanists who blather the same POV’s I heard from liberal Protestants in their sermons, or warmed-over Thomism now even discredited by Rome herself, I wonder, “How is this Orthodox?” The same applies to the current discussion. We had all sorts of dispensationalists on, and people called them to task, yet even now Fr. Joseph continues to speak about Fatima, Beauraing, etc. which Orthodox view with distaste, and yet, when I speak of the Doctrines of Predestination and Election, which all Orthodox ‘officially’ adhere to, I get all this flak.

    For this is what this is- fear that God might NOT love all men, indiscriminately, like a whore does on the street corner. What is the meaning of the Virginal terminology in the OT between YHWH and Israel, and/or St. Paul and the Church and Christ in the NEw. That ONE spouse, (not many) is God’s Bride.

  173. Michael K. May 16, 2009 @ 10:55 am

    Dear Fr. John,

    Your logic is keen, but I find the paradoxes in describing the proper object of our prayers are indeed semantic. Take “Jew” for example. Probably intentionally, the word connotes race as well as religion. Well, a person so born is not choosing apostasy, heresy, or whatever other valid choices make one Christ’s avowed enemy. And it is due to the complexity of the human situation that we may pray for “Jews”, meaning those called Jews, but who haven’t made final spiritual decisions regarding their faith.

    However, this creates the logic paradox which we are wrestling with. Thus demonstrating the general inadequacy of our reasoning faculties to deal with the ten-thousand nuances of meaning in every name. The pursuit of perfect verbal formulae should take a back seat to the pursuit of right living, love and humility. This is the spiritual being placed above the material.

    Peace in Christ.

  174. Michael K. May 16, 2009 @ 11:05 am

    Dear Apollonian,

    You are thoroughly correct in your simple reasoning about COUNTRFEITING. This is the entry to the worm-hole, as it were, for the common speaker. Nevertheless, you know I know you and the fact that you have a lot of hatred, not just righteous anger.

    I appreciate your approach as regards simplicity, but I do feel you could learn from the others here yourself about the irrational but nonetheless real aspects of the spiritual Kingdom of God. This is not a material war, but a spiritual one. Ridding ourselves of Judaism is like fighting the ‘tar-baby.’ And the thing that we get on us is THEIR SENSE OF HATRED for others.

    As a brother in Christ, please listen and be careful. Not all things that appeal to reason are in fact true. “Let all men be liars, but let God be true.”

  175. apollonian May 16, 2009 @ 11:38 am

    Practical, Specific, CONCRETE Info Is What Is Most Critically Needed For Patriots And Christian Soldiers
    (Apollonian, 16 May 09)

    Father Joseph: I really need u to send me and Bro. Kapner money so we can continue and even enhance our extremely important missions.

    But aside fm, and in lieu of such funds, u must follow my instructions and advice given just above–especially for emphasis upon that COUNTERFEITING instrument/operation which is crux to practical earthly power of Judeo-conspirators.

    CONCLUSION: For that truthful and CONCRETE info about COUNTERFEITING is what will MOST and best inform our good comrades and people for the EXACT nature of our enemies’ otherwise invincible weapon which will only be effectively countered by way of INFO. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonian

  176. apollonian May 16, 2009 @ 11:51 am

    Mike K. Sins Grievously; Must Now Do Proper Penance
    (Apollonian, 16 May 09)

    Mike K.: I’m highly offended by ur crass absurdity, presumption, and Pharisaism, and I hereby require, as expiation for ur gross sinfulness, u send myself and Bro. Kapner significant funds in order we may continue our important missions. Now pls try to think more cogently and sin no more. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonian

  177. Michael K. May 16, 2009 @ 11:52 am

    Dear Above Mentioned,

    I would not presume to instruct either of you in reason or faith and be taken as an authority in either. But the thing which vexes me here is the way we treat the semantics of the power words like “Jew” and “Christian” and “Orthodox.” The concept of the paradox-as-inherent-in-nature.

    For Apollonion said brilliantly:

    “For never forget: (a) lies are deliberate subjectivistic substitutes for objective reality. (b) Lying is being deliberately subjectivistic, pretending to being objective. (c) And a liar is a deliberate subjectivist pretending to being objective.”

    And so to Apollonian, the rationalist, I ask did you ever read “Goedel-Esher-Bach”? It was where I learned about this problem. If I tell you in all seriousness that EVERYTHING I say to you is a lie, then you have two alternative meanings, both confusing:

    1.) I am telling you the truth, in which case I’m telling you a lie. In that case I’m lying , proving that I’m a liar and thus telling you the truth.

    2.) I’m lying, in which case I’m a liar, so it’s the truth I’m telling you.

    These unsatisfactory results shouldn’t happen in a perfect world.

    But this being the case, we will now note any number of holes in the fabric we once thought to be a seamless garment. Unfortunately, this is the case with Scriptural learning, and into this hole dives the Talmudic pragmatist, and returns with whatever he needs to justify doing whatever he lusts to do the most. Yes, with proper positioning, the Truth is made reasonably deducible as a childish fib, while Death gets celebrated as The Shining Truth.

    Perfect reasoning still deduces an error when started from untrue premises. Premises are shaky, at best, and paradoxes-as-inherent-in-nature are found within all of them. Look at the sun through a filter shade, and you will see black holes moving across its face. But I could reason easily that the sun in brilliantly illuminated uniformly across its face, and get the uneducated to vehemently agree.

    Peace-of-Mind-In Christ.

  178. Stav May 16, 2009 @ 12:01 pm

    Hi apollonian,

    I cannot help but feel that your latest post was an attempt to avoid answering my questions to you.

    >>“Stav,” I’m Christian, but since u don’t understand English I realize it’s useless talking to such as u–Bro. Kapner would censor me anyway for what I’d tell u. And I don’t think u really understand Christ whose msg was brilliant and really quite clear as I’ve already noted for this blog–I’m not going to go into it again. Christ essentially affirmed Aristotle–as even St. Thomas Aquinas acknowledged.

    Fair enough, If you say you are a Christian, who am I to disappoint you, but let me still believe that you are not really what you claim to be. At least not in the ways that matter.

    The funny thing is, while I read agreeable and things in your latest post, I did not see a logical and completely sensible answer to my question. Nor did I see any significant response to my arguments.

    My question was: What is your logical deduction which you used to arrive at the conclusion that any anti-Zionist is also anti-semetic?

    In addition to the above, I would like to mention this: You say that it is essentially stupid to expect miracles. As a Christian, which you claim you are, you must follow the Christ. Not just Jesus who is a man. Christ is the Son of God, the second person in the Holy Trinity. He is still among us, and he is still very much active in our lives. At least, this is what a Christ-ian should believe. In this light, why would it be foolish to expect miracles?

    Again, you claim to be Christian, but your ethos, at least, is Atheist. Your reasoning in your last post, is correct for the most part, but your premise is materialistic. Tell me, why do you think that Jesus Christ message is brilliant? Is it because finally God has come to the world in order to save our souls, or is it because you think he affirms, and express a “nice” and effective way of life in this world?

    If your answer is the second case or anything similar to it, then your premise and ethos is Atheist, even if you call your self a Christian.

    This is a practical matter, why criticize so harshly anything like
    >>stupid lies, mysticism, and childish wishful thinking and praying for idiotic “miracles.”

    You also suggest HONESTY TRUTH etc. as the way to go. Fine, I agree with you that this is definitely what should drive us, but to dismiss that God can be an even greater help than these, is NOT Christian not spiritual thinking. Its worldly and materialistic. You are essentially saying that we ,really , do not need God, we only need ourselves, and our Honesty and our truth.

    That, my friend is NOT Christian thinking. Its purely philosophical thinking. Admirable, but it will be ineffective.

    In addition, could of you give me some examples of what you mention as:

    >>stupid lies, mysticism, and childish wishful thinking and praying for idiotic “miracles.”

    And why is it so repulsive to you that one (in the context of believing in Christ and a personal God and saviour) can expect Him to actually provide some help to our predicament?

    Stav

  179. jgalindes May 16, 2009 @ 12:43 pm

    Dear KathJuliane,Stav,Fr Joseph,Linda

    I beg you,take a couple of minutes and visit the following web-site.Please advise me if I can obtain there subtance for my soul.

    http://www.thewhitechrist.wordpress.com/

    P.S.I’m not sure I do posses all the brain convolutions and cranial capacity needed to obtain salvation!!
    Have already ordered a visit with physicians to urgently run a CAT scan of my brain.

    Thanks a lot

  180. apollonian May 16, 2009 @ 1:01 pm

    “Stav” Must Achieve Glorious Inspiration–And Send Funds
    (Apollonian, 16 May 09)

    Stav: In the name of Christ, most blessed, I hereby enjoin u to cease ur babbling and send me and Bro. Kapner 1/4th of ur current income so we can continue our important missions of informing and inspiring fellow humans. Note if u fail to follow my instructions u may end up suffering a long time in Purgatorio. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonian

  181. KathJuliane May 16, 2009 @ 1:14 pm

    Greetings in the Lord Jesus from No Calif in Talmudistan. God bless you all, and may Christ reward you.

    What a busy site today. Just sat down.

    Appolonarian, what amazing insights you bring to our RZN family about character and personality.

    Suddenly, you and Brother Nathanael have become “partners”, and you are now claiming to be a part of his holy ministry to preach Christ and the Cross, and demanding funds for it. Astonishing. Me support Bro Nathanel? Certainly, yes. And you? I will send a donation on your behalf to a Christian charity doing work in Orthodox Serbia.

    Dear JGalindes,

    Re: White Christ website. Have been there, read that. Am always appreciative of things that test my faith and belief in our Lord Jesus Christ, and give me chances for prayers.

    The bottom line, however, is that I am confident that should Father John, as a Christian, ever come upon the “man lying half-dead by the roadside”, he would be the “Good Samaritan” regardless of the victim’s skin color, and not the priest or the Levite coming away from the temple that were so afraid of ritual defilement in case the man were dead if they checked to see if he was alive, that the priest and the Levite crossed over to the other side of the road.

  182. Maria May 16, 2009 @ 1:39 pm

    @Jim DeTexas

    Think of a bell curve with the role you described for women in the right tail and the abortion on demand crowd in the left tail.

    Hovering around the mean, is the majority of American women seeking to balance some combination of career and children, largely now, for economic reasons..this is the reality for most women and mainstream policy should reflect this demographic.

  183. apollonian May 16, 2009 @ 1:40 pm

    Presumption Is Not Pretty
    (Apollonian, 16 May 09)

    “KathJuliane”: Note I never, ever, in any way “claimed” to being “part” of Bro. Kapner’s ministry. I have my own operations, if u must know.

    CONCLUSION: For ur presumption, pls try to double ur current contributions, and sin a little less intensively, thank u very much. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonian

  184. Stav May 16, 2009 @ 3:30 pm

    Dear apollonian,

    Thank you for your clear conclusion.

    Stav

  185. Stav May 16, 2009 @ 4:00 pm

    Dear fr. John,

    Luke, 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

    After your analysis of the word “they”, you conclude that:
    >>No, it was not the Pharisees/Jews who are the ‘they’ in this verse, But the ROMANS, who DID do the dirty work the Jews were too proud to do.

    OK, lets assume that you are right. But He is doing something that we need to follow in practice if needed. We can pray for the non Orthodox, (pagan Romans in this particular case) as per His example.

    One last word about Orthodoxy in Greece. Yes, a vast majority of the population here, is secular, or in the least only culturally Orthodox. However the small percentage 5-10% who are Christians, are Orthodox. Our government, schools, churches, traditions are completely saturated into Orthodoxy. Local bank holidays and fasts are kept in most public and common institutions such as the army, etc. etc. Orthodox theology and principles are taught in School, and yes while most ignore it or get the grades only in order to get to the next grade, the Orthodox message is still coming through.

    We also have hundreds of Orthodox monasteries and a huge revitalization of all aspects of the Church here. Finally, We also have Mount Athos, where you can go and have a truly spiritual experience if you want, but most importantly, it is a cradle of what Orthodoxy is really about.

    I would say these few things I mentioned which come from a pool of much much more, makes Greece hardly anything else BUT Orthodox. I guess, one cannot understand this unless you visit here and actually look for Orthodoxy. It is everywhere, believe me.

    Stav

  186. Maria May 16, 2009 @ 4:55 pm

    @Apollonian

    “Thus Jew parasite disease-of-opportunity is in for big trouble after they’ve destroyed their host-victims–for then they will have to fight among themselves as we see ALREADY, the CFR-Bilderberg (see TheNewAmerican.com and AugustReview.com for expo/ref.) agents, Walt-Mearsheimer, putting “finger” on “The Israel Lobby.” “There is no honor among thieves.”

    Yes, Bernie Madoff is the perfect illustration, a wealthy Jew who stole from other Jews, including Jewish charities (how low could he go?–even Elie Wiesel said he was evil)

    It is highly suspected that there are many other Bernies out there, because where there is one rat, there are many more, as they don’t live alone.

    You never hear outcry from Jews when the crime is Jew on Christian, but it sure comes out when it’s Jew on Jew.

    There are, also, predictions that Israel will implode, as Christians depart for Egypt and Palestinians are denied, who will the Jews have left to exploit, but themselves?

  187. Maria May 16, 2009 @ 5:20 pm

    @Informer May 12, re: Michael K’s website

    and Hyam Saloman’s story:

    At http://www.ohr.org.il/ask/ask266.htm

    The comments regarding Haym Salomon and the Great Seal of the United States are not correct. The final seal was designed by Charles Thomson and approved by the Continental Congress on 20 June 1782.

    When Thomson submitted his design, he included his “Remarks and Explanation” which describes what each symbol represents. The “Remarks and Explanation” was approved by the Congress and not one symbol represents, or was intended to represent Israel. The 1st US Congress ratified the design in 1789.

    You need to correct this information and issue an apology on your site for not verifying the historical facts. You can verify what I have stated by getting a copy of “The Great Seal of the United States” published by the US State Department, which is the keeper of the Seal.

    R. H. Templeton

  188. admin May 16, 2009 @ 5:55 pm

    Dear Friends of Real Zionist News and Our Real Zionist News Family!

    I am STILL here in NYC and let me tell you, the response from EVERYONE has been way beyond my expectations.

    Last nite in Times Sq I was literally mobbed by the youth who are SO HUNGRY for Christ! I was also mobbed by the youth on their tours in Wall Street.

    Because all is GOING SO WELL and Brother Nathanael could possibly overtake the “Naked Cowboy” who comes out to Times Sq (He leaves when he sees me), I would like to come to NYC every month.

    So, PLEASE CONSIDER helping me with this URGENT MINISTRY to the youth of America and the youth and ALL peoples of the world!

    There is a DONATION FEATURE at the top and bottom of this article. OR - Donations may be safely sent to:
    Brother Nathanael Kapner; PO Box 547; Priest River ID; 83856.

    Many Thanks In Advance!

    Your +Brother In Christ, +Nathanael

  189. admin May 16, 2009 @ 6:01 pm

    THIS IS FROM PATRICK D. Who Had Trouble With The Anti-Spam:
    (Patrick introduced himself yesterday to me in Times Sq/8th Avenue!
    *************************************** *****************
    Hi Brother Nathanael:

    It was a pleasure to meet you yesterday on 8th ave. As promised, here’s a post for your readers.

    To begin, I am not Christian.

    I am also openly gay.

    Some may find that odd, but what I also am is an American, and anti-zionist. Zionists don’t discriminate; they take from, and screw over all of us equally.

    I respect the Christian beliefs of many of your readers, though I don’t share them.

    As Americans, we all have religious freedoms. To allow the zionists to silence Christians, or anti-zionist Jews, or anyone else for that matter - is unacceptable.

    The freedom to worship as one chooses is enshrined in the US Constitution - if not explicitly, implicity - by the separation of Church and State.

    Zionist control of the media, banking and legal fields is also repulsive to many of us. The whole idea of ‘hate crimes/speach’ is just the latest in the zionist desire for control.

    I am active in local politics, and some zionist-controlled lobbying groups approached many of us to support a special bill in NYS that would make gay-bashing at schools a hate crime - carrying extra penalties. I reject that idea.

    There are already laws on the books that protect students from physical and emotional harm. ALL students should be equally protected.

    The only bill I would support is stripping school district employees of their protections, and holding them personally accountable for student beatings.

    It’s not until some of these people loose their homes and life savings that they will ensure that all children can learn in a physically and emotionally safe environment.

    Needless to say, I guess I’m now a ’self-hating fag.’ Not at all. Just not buying the obvious bullshit that’s being peddled.

    As for the zionist plan to destroy world finance - we’re all living it daily.

    I would suggest an uprising - walk away from the banks, and gold and silver - and suggest bartering with pigs feet if we have to in order to stop this NWO nonsense.

    The problem is - if that happened today, tomorrow the zionists would be pig farmers. :( Thankfully, Europeans - who have had the holocaust thrown in their face from craddle to grave are becoming sick of this nonsense.

    Of course, the zionists will do everything possible to enslave people who have the audacity to rise up and say ENOUGH.

    So please, people - while I respect that many approach the zionist NWO from a Christian perspective - there are many of us who do not.

    In fact, many southern ‘Christians’ (so filled with hate, that I would hardly call them followers of Jesus) actually support zionist Irsrael, which I doubt I’ll ever understand why.

    If there is ever any hope of defeating the threat of a NWO and zionist control - it will take all of us to make it stop.

    ~PD

  190. admin May 16, 2009 @ 6:03 pm

    This Is From Ted Poernomo Who Also Had Trouble With The Anti Spam:
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I have not known about all of this, but I’ve heard of conspiracy theory, the Zionist and the Jews taking control.

    Not sure if this is really true. If really conspiracy then why you publish it for the world? There are conflict too.

    If Lehman is own by Jewish then why Lehman went bankrupt? What is the purpose of melting down Christians? In reality isn’t it the Moslems getting hit hard from the war of terrorism?

    If indeed the Jews who orchestrated the financial crisis, then don’t you think there are many Jews also getting hit hard since many of them working in the financial institution?

    The Jews has strong presence and influence in the West, but not in the East? Is Zionist works together with CIA to control world’s event?

    Very curious to know about the truth! I am Asian and thus have not much knowledge or exposure to Jews.

    Thanks!

    Ted

  191. Michael K. May 16, 2009 @ 6:18 pm

    Dear Maria and ‘Informer’,

    Frankly, if you want to see what “my” website says about The Great Seal of the United State, go here:

    http://watch.pair.com/mason.html#seal

    It doesn’t say anything about any Haym Saloman.

    ‘Informer’, where are you coming from? I honestly don’t see any reference. Please provide a link.

    Peace in Christ.

  192. jgalindes May 16, 2009 @ 6:35 pm

    Dear KathJuliane,

    Appreciate your reply.

    Juan

  193. Lynda May 16, 2009 @ 7:57 pm

    Dear Juan,

    Fr John waxes eloquent on the blogs because no posts appear in the comment section of his Blog: The White Christ unless they score at least 8-10 / 10 on the Obseqious and Servile Submission Scale.

    Preachy, Sanctimonious and Pharisaical all come to mind as ready descriptions of the White Christ Blog.

    The problem that the Catholic should have with the White Christ (as opposed to the novus ordo catholic) is that it is a mindwarp of heresies and errors which I do not ascribe to Orthodoxy but to the individual who identifies himself as Fr John. He uses clever semantics to make the very words of Our Lord to none effect.

    Take for example this statement: “orthodoxy dos not pray for the heretic, the apostate or the merely deluded”.

    What does Our Lord say. “I say to you, “Love your enemies: do good to those that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you.” Matt 5:44.

    Well who are the enemies and calumniators of the House of Faith? The Catholic Church enjoins the spiritual work of mercy of prayer for these people. Can’t they repent? Can’t they be converted? Can’t they become undeluded? Of course they can if people will pray and make sacrifices and reparations for them.

  194. KathJuliane May 16, 2009 @ 9:58 pm

    Dear Apollonian,

    Thank you for clarifying that you are NOT a part of our dear Bro. Nathanael’s holy ministry, but simply a new friend of the RZN family.

    Peace in our Lord Jesus Christ, “comrade”.

  195. Fr. John May 17, 2009 @ 6:26 am

    Thanks, Lynda. Since I don’t print all the overwhelmingly positive comments on my blog, and since I have barred your narrow phyletistic comments from it, you think all the world sees life as you do. Sorry, wrong-o.

    The point is many Orthodox have said if only THEIR clerics spoke as honestly from their altars as I do, they wouldn’t have to ask, ‘don’t publish my comment, but I agree with you.’ I don’t need your approbation, I serve Christ, and Him alone.

  196. Fr. John May 17, 2009 @ 6:40 am

    Kath Juliane- you state -”The bottom line, however, is that I am confident that should Father John, as a Christian, ever come upon the “man lying half-dead by the roadside”, he would be the “Good Samaritan” regardless of the victim’s skin color, and not the priest or the Levite coming away from the temple that were so afraid of ritual defilement in case the man were dead if they checked to see if he was alive, that the priest and the Levite crossed over to the other side of the road.”

    Ah, yes, when you can’t refute the theology, attack the messenger. From a woman who is as erudite as you appear to be on this post, I am astounded that you would resort to ‘ad hominem’ attacks.

    To compare my desire to clarify who is the “israel of God’ in this Zionist-infested era, with whether or not I would attend to a person in need, is ludicrous, if only to avoid having to deal with the ‘hard things of Scripture.’ Note, first of all, that the Samaritans and the Judeans were of the SAME RACIAL STOCK, and NOT two separate ‘races.’ You analogy falls apart at the very point you think you insult me, and Christ. For Christ came to ’save HIS PEOPLE from their sins.’ Do you realize that the very Eucharistic prayer said in EVERY Orthodox Church, when compared to the Universalist re-write in the non-Orthodox Churches, corroborates my view, and dismisses YOURS.

    Look at the comment about the cup- This cup is the blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for MANY, etc. (actually, in Greek, it is “THE MANY.”

    Now, compare the modernist variants, ‘THis cup is the blood of the New covenant, which is shed for ALL,” etc.

    Clearly, the first is Our Lord’s words, the second is the modernist Universalist POV. Which does YOUR church use, and then, why does it not preach that ‘limited salvation’ to those who are of that Faith. I find it amazing that you corroborate your ETHNIC solidarity with a fellow Byzantine (indulging in a form of ‘racial supremacism’/phyletism, if you will) and then accuse me of the same.

    Clearly, if we look at the Scriptural accounts of the Good Samaritan, and read it with the enlightenment that comes of knowing how Christ called the Pharisees ‘blind guides’ and ’sons of their Father, teh Devil’ [John 8:44] it was NOT because they were of the RACE of Israel, but because they were the first ‘Jewish supremacists’ and yet, according to Josephus, and St. John[ Rev. 2:8,9] they weren’t even Judeans, But IDUMEANS (Edomites)!

    If we read the Good Samaritan account properly, and inserted Scotsman, Englishman, and Irishman for the man beset upon, the Pharisee, and the Samaritan, we might see that modernist approaches to ‘universalizing’ the Scriptures is a sham, and/or the work of the “Judaizing heresy’ so very prevalent in the world today, making us believe that we are ‘all one race, the human race’ when THEY, themselves are the MOST ‘racist’ nation on Earth.

    Please, take out the log, before you attempt to impugn me with a splinter. May God grant you grace so to do.

  197. Fr. Joseph May 17, 2009 @ 6:47 am

    Dear jgalindes,

    You asked me for my opinion about the webpage ‘WhiteChrist’. Let me simply share with you some contemplative thoughts and insights of mine about the entire field of what is called “Religion”.

    Our acknowledgement of God our Creator and our acknowledgement of our utter and total dependence upon His Divine Providence and His Divine Will and His Supernatural Reason for our beinghood constitutes the very core essense of all forms, types and overt manifestations of AUTHENTIC Christian spirituality.

    What the Eternal God Himself revealed and taught remains eternally unchanged and unchangeable. Human beings the World over have but 1 of 3 simple options to chose from regarding Christ’s Own Divine Revelation of all manner of Divine Things -

    1) to ACCEPT what God Incarnate reveals
    2) to REJECT what God Incarnate reveals, or
    3) to ALTER what God Incarnate reveals to suite their own preferences, prejudices and passions.

    We ALL either accept God as He Is, reject God as He Is or we will attempt to change and alter God into what WE want Him to be.

    - Fr. Joseph

  198. Fr. Joseph May 17, 2009 @ 6:59 am

    Dear jgalindes,

    So, taking what you said rather “seriously” about your not having the mental abilities to grasp, digest, compare, discern and decide amongst the ga-zillion human opinions and assertions regarding ‘Religion Related’ issues and THAT causing you concerns about EVER obtaining ‘Salvation’, let me share the following with you in order to help bring some peace, focus, stability and strenght to you in your own personal-private spiritual sojourn back to take up your eternal place in your Father’s House.

    The process of what is biblically cited as “dying to the World” consists in RECOGNIZING human conventions and societal assertions of all sorts and types currently placed in the public domain’s limelight by “social engineers” of all sorts and types from the realms of politics, sciences, economics and yes, RELIGION! as but passing fades which attempt to modify and alter human behavior and human interrelatedness which is foreign and alien to the Divine Mind, Thought and Desires of a never-changing and non-changeable Divine Creator.

    In essense, the ‘World’ of people WITHOUT the Grace and Mind of Christ Jesus, God Incarnate, is one long continuous aggitating and asserting over and over again all in a vain attempt to RE-define Reality as it is and some sort of meaning and purpose to their lives and the way they are lived.

    We have a “Savior” Who can and does save us from DROWNING in a churning ocean-sea of mutually asserting and contradicting human opinions.

    Salvation comes to us by our asking for, seeking and accepting the many Divine Graces granted to us by THE LORD’s Own Holy Spirit.

    When God the Holy Spirit CONFIRMS to us and within us a perpetually unchanging Truth regarding Himself, ourselves and our lives, such inner Divine Confirmations of God the Holy Spirit in us leave an INDELIBLE effect on us that those of the ‘World’, with all of their specious arguments, cannot affect.

    - Fr. Joseph

  199. Fr. Joseph May 17, 2009 @ 7:08 am

    Dear jgalindes,

    We are ALL our brothers’ and sisters’ KEEPERS. Probably the single greatest THREAT to our individual and collective spiritual lives is the constant lure of PRIDE into our personal lives.

    What is PRIDE, either of human or elemental spirit in nature, other than a self-assertion on the part of the elemental or incarnate spiritual creature that he, she, they or ‘it’ are EXEMPT from the need to actively participate in and COOPERATE with the Divine Will of their Creator?

    If we simply make it a part of our own spiritual lives to say or assert to ourselves something like ‘God is ALWAYS right and I am very PRONE to making mistakes and errors in my LIMITED knowledge, understanding and wisdom - but nevertheless, let me (or us) continue on pushing on forward in our attempts TO RETURN to our Father in Heaven’s House.’

    With a kept hidden-secret desire and longing-prayer at the very core of our hearts and minds along these lines

    ‘And perhaps the Father will see me (or us) from the Far Distance, have Divine Pity on us and Secretly Help Us to this treacherous spiritual journey back to Him, forgiving us our errors, lapses in judgement, our ignorance of facts and truths, etc.’

    - Fr. Joseph

  200. Fr. John May 17, 2009 @ 9:25 am

    Michael K- “Your logic is keen, but I find the paradoxes in describing the proper object of our prayers are indeed semantic. Take “Jew” for example. Probably intentionally, the word connotes race as well as religion. Well, a person so born is not choosing apostasy, heresy, or whatever other valid choices make one Christ’s avowed enemy. And it is due to the complexity of the human situation that we may pray for “Jews”, meaning those called Jews, but who haven’t made final spiritual decisions regarding their faith.”

    You clearly know neither the Jews, their Talmud, or the racial supremacist theology they are inculcated with from their births. IF they abandon their ‘chosen people’ mantra, yes, they can have a place at the Altar [Heb. 13:10]. But even the author of Hebrews says until then, Nyet!

    Br. Nathanael is a case in point, in that he LEFT it all behind. Most of those Judaics who think they can be Americans, or Russians, and still be Jews, are just as deluded as those that think they can be Christians, and still be Jews. The Orthodox Church’s conversion service for Jews is clear- a total, complete break with both the religion and the Talmudic racism of a false ‘chosen people.’

    I believe the error I am seeing exhibited by so many on this post’s comments, to my clear articulation to the realities of Scripture and orthodox praxis for the last 1900 years is, that we have been trained to assume that European altruism is a feature of non-Europeans; this is the same error on a physical scale, as thinking that Satan can repent in Hell. For ‘can the leopard change his spots, etc.’ This, too is Holy Scripture. Love, to BE love, must have an OBJECT- it cannot de indiscriminate, unless you equate a whore’s ‘love’ with that of a chaste spouse.

    I grant, individual Talmudics can repent. But their repentance is so rare, so amazing to behold, I’d rather look for the ‘lost sheep of the house of Israel,’ (which do not include the former) than seek to find one of those whom Christ called, “Satan’s seed.” [John 8:44] Why are you all caviling at God’s word? This is astounding. God will save ALL those He has predestined to save, even without our active involvement. And, again, Love – even incarnate Love- must have ONE object, and one object alone; clearly, you all know that, (otherwise why be GREEK, RUSSIAN, SERBIAN, etc. Orthodox?) But when it comes to seeing that object in a national/cultural sphere, you willfully blind yourselves.

    I love my fellow man, my European neighbor far MORE than those who wish to destroy Europe, and America; and I feel my love is more ‘Christ-like’, simply because they ‘love’ their African brothers and sisters so much, that they want to isnre our genocide as Europeans, by the mindless importing of the third world…as well as their crime, their misdeeds, their disease, etc. Is this logic? Is this even ‘charity”? How can it be charity to condemn those who look LIKE you, to a death, all for the misguided altruism for those who do NOT look like you?

    And it seems disingenuous for an Orthodox laywoman to speak so, when Anglos who come to Orthodoxy in America, are almost pushed OUT the door by the “Ethnics,” because (they say, when confronted by this almost instinctual behavior) “…we are pushing you away, to make sure you REALLY want to be in here.’ Umm, yeah…. This is the NORM, that my wife and I have experienced, and our friends as well, in coming to all sorts of traditionalist Orthodoxy. They say it’s ‘love,’ hen in actuality, it is the grossest kind of phyletism at work.

    Pot calling kettle, come in kettle….

  201. Michael K. May 17, 2009 @ 10:26 am

    Dear Fr. John,

    Yes to discriminate love, no to vague universalism. I agree with you.

    I have little experience with “Ethnics”, since I live in coastal Maine, the most Anglo place in the United States. But I have traveled to Europe and New York City. I feel ethnic tension comes most when people are not in Christ together. Natural tendencies do separate us otherwise.

    I don’t think I’ll send money for the conversion of Africa, though, when there are Christian children who go to bed hungry in Maine.

  202. KathJuliane May 17, 2009 @ 11:18 am

    Greetings in the Lord, Father John.

    I sincerely meant it when I wrote that I was confident that you would be the “Good Samaritan” to the half-dead man by the road, regardless of skin color, out of compassion which our Jesus Christ calls us to. Although I don’t know you personally, I usually find that under disciplined, gruff and stiff exteriors there is usually a heart of gold, or at least silver.

    My comment was intended as a compliment. “I am confident” that your faith in Christ ultimately rises above worldly concerns, and that you, by His grace, would, given the same situation as the Good Samaritan, be moved in you heart and in good conscience, to help the “half-dead man” regardless of skin-color, or religion, or a half-dead stupid drunk, or an auto accident, or a crime victim or whatever, and simply do the right thing.

    If it came off as an “ad hominum” then forgive me for poor writing style that may have led you to perceive it as one, or the fact that plain text is dry and doesn’t always convey the intended attitude behind it, and can be misinterpreted as to author’s intent.

    But, I assure you, what I wrote was far from an ad hominum in intent.

  203. jgalindes May 17, 2009 @ 11:39 am

    Dear Lynda,

    Many thanks for your comments.You do helped a lot.

    May God protect you and those you love.

    Juan

  204. Stav May 17, 2009 @ 11:41 am

    Fr. John,

    You say:
    >>Look at the comment about the cup- This cup is the blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for MANY, etc. (actually, in Greek, it is “THE MANY.”

    How did you arrive at this? The original Greek says:

    28τουτο γαρ εστιν το αιμα μου της διαθηκης το περι πολλων εκχυννομενον εις αφεσιν αμαρτιων

    It actually says: το περι πολλων (to peri polon) which literally means: “the[blood] about many” which can be translated more adequately and freely to: “for many” rather than “the many”. I note here that “peri” also means “around” and “for”. Thus, one could also translate it directly to: “the[blood] for many”.

    The reason that “for many” is a more appropriate translation that “the many”, because the word “peri”, makes the word “polon” less specific, by adding a sense of limited relevance by the use of the word “peri”.

    If Jesus Christ would want to say “the many”, he would specifically say “διά των πολλών” (dia ton polon) which the obvious and specific way to say “the many”. In fact if it is NOT put in this way, then the word noun is non-specific, and thus it must be translated in a more generalized way such as “for many”.

    Please also note that you say “the many” which denotes that in the Greek according to you, the word many is preceded by an article. But the appropriate article for the word “polon” in Greek is “ton”. If you look at the original, this article is missing, thus the translation is definitely not “THE MANY.

    Regardless, look at the previous line to 28:

    27και λαβων ποτηριον [και] ευχαριστησας εδωκεν αυτοις λεγων πιετε εξ αυτου παντες

    “kai lavon potirion [kai] efxaristisas edoken aftis legon piete ex aftou PANTES”

    “Pantes” means ALL. The is no alternate translation.

    And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

    There, is another literal reference to ALL, will you refute that one also?

    You also say:

    >>If we read the Good Samaritan account properly, and inserted Scotsman, Englishman, and Irishman for the man beset upon, the Pharisee, and the Samaritan, we might see that modernist approaches to….etc.

    What is it with you trying to deconstruct and project even the simple passages and parables to complex and misleading conglomerate theories?

    These parables are DESIGNED to be understood even by Children and anyone else, regardless of education, ability to read, write, extrapolate, analyze etc. etc.

    The simple meaning is, love and help your fellow man, if presented with the opportunity, regardless of what he is. How can you even attempt to change the meaning of this parable?

    Don’t try to present me with elaborate knowledge. It really, really is irrelevant in this case. Again, when a small Child barely able to talk, is told this story, even they, IMMEDIATELY understand the lesson of this story. Why can’t (or won’t) you?

    That was my final post on this. Anybody can judge what I am saying and make up their own minds. I will not comment if you post anything on this particular subject. At least, not anytime soon.

    Stav

  205. jgalindes May 17, 2009 @ 11:46 am

    Dear Fr Joseph,

    Always so much conforting to receive your learned words.

    Thanks a lot.

    Juan

    P.S. I was kidding, last time I measured IQ (two years ago) was a mere 135. I think not that bad for an ageing mestizo (55 years old).

  206. Stav May 17, 2009 @ 11:50 am

    Fr. John,

    I said that I was not going to post on this, but I think this one doesbnot count as I just remembered one more reason why “to peri polon” can be translated to “for many” rather than “for the many”:

    The word “for” in English” is glossically “equal” to the word “peri”. This is because the letter f and p can be equaled based on their sound. Thus, peri = feri and also it is common in this case to ignore vowels. Thus finally we get peri=feri=fr
    and
    for=fr

    It is quite obvious that the words peri and for in this context have the same ancient root.

    Thus, under this light the translation of “for many” is much more accurate that “for the many”. Period. Note that the article “to” in “to peri polon” in the Greek refers to the Blood and not the many, due to its gender.

    Stav

  207. Michael K. May 17, 2009 @ 12:27 pm

    Dear Fr. John,

    My question to you is whether, given your indications above that the British Empire existed and acted according to God’s mandate, whether or not you believe that “The Divine Right Of Kings” is a fundamental Orthodox Christian doctrine?

    Given that:

    The Merovingian dynasty still maintains its legitimacy and will one day openly assert the divine right of their nobility to rule the world as an angelic race of demi-gods, whose ancestors were the fallen angels.

    “The all-important element of the Divine Right is that it comes from God, or ‘the gods’, alternately. And who were these gods? Authors such as Zecharia Sitchin, Sir Laurence Gardner and Nicholas de Vere are authoritatively convinced that kingship was created by an advanced race of beings called the Annunaki, also called the Nephilim in the Old Testament.

    These were the ones who created the human race and interbred with a portion of it to create the kingly caste which until this day has still maintained control over the Earth. These celestial creatures have been variously identified with Dragons, Elves, Fairies, Gnomes, Leprechauns, Sprites, Nymphs, Pixies, Angels, Demons, Devils, Witches, Giants, Vampires, Werewolves, and just about every mythical being you can imagine. Some, like Gardner and Sitchin, claim that they come from another planet. Others, like de Vere, say that they’re multi-dimensional, or that they’re from the Hollow Earth.” (“The Biological Basis of Elitism and Divine Right Rule”

    And please reflect upon the “Christian” imperative of the British Empire in the light that:

    After the Merovingian dynasty was deposed by the Roman Church in 800 AD, their demonic bloodline was preserved by the “Imperial and Royal Dragon Court” which conspired to regain control of the Holy Roman Empire through infiltration of Church and State.  Their insignia was the dragon in the form of a circle and a red cross—the Rosy Cross of the Prieuré de Sion, the Knights Templar and the Rosicrucians.

    “When the Imperial and Royal Dragon Court was reconstituted by King Sigismund in 1408 as the Societas Draconis, it was based upon an ancient bloodline tradition which Sigismund assumed that he had inherited from his presumed Egyptian and Scythian ancestors through the Pictish, Dragon Princess Maelasanu of Northumbria and the Ancient and Original Angevin Royal House of Vere of Anjou, the Imperial Dukes of Angiers. This line had descended through the Tuatha de Danaan (the Dragon Kings of Anu) on the one hand, and the Egyptian Dragon Dynasty of Sobek on the other. The latter strain included the bloodline of the Davidic House of Judah who married into the descent of the Merovingian Kings of the Franks…

    “In 1408 (when Britain was in her Plantagenet era), the Dragon Court was formally reconstituted as a sovereign body at a time of wars and general political turmoil… The founding document…stated that members of the Court might wear the insignia of a dragon incurved into a circle, with a red cross—the very emblem of the original Rosicrucis which had identified the Grail succession from before 3000 B.C.” (Genesis of the Grail Kings)

    And further consider this:

    If the Nephilim, aka the Anunnaki, are planning to return during the Tribulation period to “sire a new race of ‘kingly’ beings for this world,” is it possible that these antediluvian gods, the demons who originally sired the Merovingian race, are the mysterious “beast that rises out of the sea” in Revelation 13?

    “And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?” (Rev. 13:1-4)

    The Necronomicon by Abdul Alhazred, “a mad poet of Sanaa, in Yemen,” is a “Book of Dead Names” about the ancient demi-gods of Atlantis who were drowned in the Great Deluge. This original Necronomicon disclosed that, just as Vampires rise from their graves to avenge their deaths, so shall the Nephilim require their human offspring to avenge their deaths and to call them forth from the Underworld.

    “For as Abdul writes of The Necronomicon ‘civilizations were destroyed because of the knowledge contained in this book.’ This is the deed that must be avenged, the memory of which slumbers in the blood of their human offspring – just as they slumber beneath the Earth, waiting for the day that the stars will be right again, and their descendants will perform the rites which will bring them up from the depths to reclaim their kingdom, and the Age of the Gods will begin anew: The New Atlantis, the New Jerusalem, the New World Order.” (“Dead But Dreaming: The Great Old Ones of Lovecraftian Legend Reinterpreted as Sumerian/Atlantean Kings”)

    What then of the racial bias towards our people’s presumed superiority when it is plainly revealed that our lines are superior due to exactly the things that make us separate from God?

  208. Michael K. May 17, 2009 @ 12:40 pm

    Dear RZN Christians,

    In reference to the above mentioned literary creation, TASHLAN of C.S. Lewis’ “The Last Battle,” a false God combining aspects of both Christ and the devil, could it not be possible that TASHLAN IS HERE RIGHT NOW IN THE FORM OF ‘CHRISTIAN ZIONISM’ ?

    This oil/water mix of Talmudism and Christianity fits very well into the mold of Lewis’ prophetic story…it is impossible to see how the two fit together. And yet it has been elevated to the level of a guiding principle in many local Christian congregations. How fearful the possible meaning.

    Pray for Christ to give us strength to face what is coming.

  209. apollonian May 17, 2009 @ 1:19 pm

    “Genocide” Of Middle Class Is Immediate Prospect Of Anti-Christ Conspirators, Counterfeiters
    (Apollonian, 17 May 09)

    Christian comrades: I think it’s now important to consider immediate general sociologic trends in order to be able to best plan activities of patriots and soldiers of God. Imminent is GENOCIDE of present middle class.

    In general Christian patriots must continue to EMPHASIZE COUNTERFEIT conspiracy (see RealityZone.com and TheMoneyMasters.com for expo/ref.) as specific nature of crux engine of anti-Christ ZOG-Mammon empire-of-lies wherein truth is treason. Counterfeiters now own and control establishment “Christian” churches, etc.

    This COUNTERFEITING is specific engine for present Orwellian “perpetual war for perp. peace,” as in Iraq/Afgan, which wars have now essentially bankrupted USA; isn’t that lovely?

    Counterfeiting is what these topmost criminals do, and they’re able to do it in midst of a CYCLICALLY (according to “Decline of the West,” by Oswald Spengler) degenerate culture of HUBRIS, founded in lies, specifically then SUBJECTIVISM (mysticism), and a moralism-Pharisaism which overthrows HONESTY, esp. in favor of “good-evil” Pelagian heresy, esp. regarding racism which is held out as being “evil.” (Note racism is actually virtue of LOYALTY, esp. as it is governed in reason.)

    Thus presently we have a US Congress which is bought by and beholden to counterfeiter Judeo-conspirators (see TheNewAmerican.com and AugustReview.com), now committed to a TWO TRILLION dollar gov. budget deficit–guaranteed and deliberately primed to trigger a heavy, horrendous, catastrophic INFLATION–if not outright hyper-inflation, hence the GENOCIDE, as it were, of present MIDDLE CLASS–this is what’s on the menu as we speak.

    The good development is States’ rights movement in general, and now, just a few days ago, state of Montana and effective “nullification” of Federal Gun-Control laws which are patently un-Constitutional.

    So note there’s un-questionably hope for Christian revival of US Constitution and republic as rational, humane Christian folks in all reason and objectivity are active.

    Christian patriots only need help the patriot process emphasizing Christian-inspired REASON, objectivity, and the COUNTERFEIT nature of outward practical aspect and face of Talmudic-led subjectivism and hereticalist Pelagianism behind anti-racists, anti-whites, and anti-Christ–including homosexuals.

    Note then Talmudists (Jews) are leaders of world subjectivism, hence Pharisaism and Pelagianism–as gentile subjectivists tend to be far more isolated and individualistic, hence ineffective.

    Greatest WEAK-POINT to large Judeo-conspiracy is “Judeo-Christian” (JC–see Whtt.org and TruthTellers.org for expo/ref.) hereticalists who are primary “enablers” of Talmudists, homosexuals probably coming second, these homos even well-infiltrated among JCs.

    CONCLUSION: Greatest specific info to be emphasized, once again, is that basic practical source of subjectivist, anti-Christ, Talmudic power is COUNTERFEITING–which even children can understand, never forget. Once people consciously note that COUNTERFEIT nature, “conspiracy” is easy connection, easily grasped. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonian

  210. Stav May 17, 2009 @ 2:38 pm

    Apollonian,

    Other than exposing the COUNTERFEIT conspiracy, which is I think the core and basis of any effective attempt to succeed , what else can we do in your opinion to change things for the better?

    Information gives us understanding, but unlike theoretical subjects, this one is very real and affecting everybody. Thus any actions that we may derive by being informed, will need to be applied, in order to be effective.

    Thus, what can we do to changes things? How do we proceed in the most effective way possible?

    Also, from your signature, you say honest elections, and death to the Fed.

    Now, about the Fed, there are people who ignored it, and applied their own economic vehicle, whether it was the liberty dollar or some other method. It seems to me though that the one enforcing the Fed. must be stopped, as the Fed. by it self cannot enforce its own plans.

    It is also other parts of the government that help perpetuate the situation, the media and other establishments such as academically based economists. They do this by implying that having real money is either illegal and in-effective, or simply try to appeal to peoples uncontrolled emotions by scaremongering.

    Thus, simply destroying the Fed on its own will not be enough.

    About the honest elections part of your signature, how do you feel that objective matters such as unconditional liberty, Truth, real valuable currency, Honesty, should be left to the majority, rather than the sensible?

    It is my conviction that even the established “value” which is the republic, has been molded into an institution which is also COUNTERFEIT and a fake one, promoted heavily by Zionism. It implies that what the majority believes is also correct, and even worse, that any opinion has the same weight and thus need not be supported by logical argument, but by vote only.

    And yes, arguments are heard obviously in republics/”democracies”, but it is the vote that counts, not the argument. Even a child can see that appointed people of different parties may argue, but for the most part, the vast majority will still follow their party’s agenda by voting uniformly, regardless of the sometimes seemingly endless arguments. The same seem to occur with general elections.

    I think that the current “democracies” are unbelievably ineffective and with the current intellectual and spiritual status of the majority, it (democracy) almost invariably serves the goals of the Talmudists.

    How do you see honest elections work for the betterment of the world? Perhaps you can elaborate on what you mean by honest elections. Do you think that there may be a better type of government which still uses elections but in a better way?

    To tell you the truth, all the people coming into this board, generally bring in a similar idea , expressed in different words, which is that people firstly need to be informed and spread the word. But after that what? I tell you this question haunts me and it is not easy to answer.

    For example, how does one REALLY and EFFECTIVELY (I mean with clearly detectable and visible cause and effect) fight the developing hyperinflation? HOW? To tell you the truth I do not see how. I know that we need to expose, emphasize etc. etc. but how does one actually change things?

    Also, there is the question on how much one needs to be informed before they take action. If I know about the Fed., the fake money, the fake wars, the fake threats, the fake history, the fake this and the fake that, and who is behind it and I am convinced to a reasonable level, then what?

    CONCLUSIONS:
    1) I am not sure simply ending the Fed is enough. We need to diminish the power of reestablishing anything similar and not just on paper.

    2)If one is convinced and has adequate proof of who and why and how is atacking us then what actions should be taken?

    3) At which point should or main focus change over from learning to acting? At what point can we say that we have enough info to start changing things?

    4) Elections based on our current demographics, will be ineffective even if they become honest. The most honest thing an ignorant voter can do is to NOT vote. But that’s not going to happen. If you do not know who the government is composed of, nor have spent any time to find out, then why do you expect your vote to be taken seriously?

    PS. And by the way, I do still think a very nice, FAT DRIPPING helping of VERY SUBJECTIVE mysticism, wishful thinking and trusting God has a GREAT role to play in all of this in a very effective way that will surprise us all. But that’s my own personal dementia I suppose. No need for anyone to take it on board if they don’t want to. But they are welcome to it!

    Stav

  211. jgalindes May 17, 2009 @ 3:12 pm

    Dear Stav,

    I will intrude myself , you didn’t ask to me, please excuse me, I feel a compulsory need to help.

    Please check this youtube channel:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/arsalbuchi

    Adrian Salbuchi is an excelent analyst and is really trying to help all us.

    He is Argentinean like me and you will not be disappointed. There are clips in English and Spanish.

    The advantage is that we Argentineans were used during the last 35 years as “lab. rats”
    by the monstrous jewish bankers and they collected psy-ops info, regarding the impact of severe financial cataclysmics and plain robbery on the ´population exactly like the one been practiced on you, guys.

    Unfortunately they succeeded and today we are a potentially rich but completely destroyed country.

    Just one example:

    After the last dissaster of 2001/2002 ,Mr.Eduardo Epstein (a jew) became the owner of the largest “latifundio” on behalf of Mr Bronfman (a jew) (Seagram/Sony,WJC,etc).

    Regarding my question of yesterday, do not bother to reply, I just checked your “greek translation” argument.

    Juan

  212. jgalindes May 17, 2009 @ 3:18 pm

    Stav,
    The last two clips (two days ago) are:

    Wold Government:Accept or resist,

    Part I
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf8046ffXok&feature=related

    Part II.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvR8GNAYpNs&feature=email

  213. Lynda May 17, 2009 @ 3:57 pm

    Dear Fr John

    It is commendable that you do not need or seek human approbation, serving Christ and him alone.

    When you serve Christ in the truth of His own Person, I will be happy to review your Webblog and I anticipate that my view will change to one of appreciation and approbation.

    It does not follow that I will be on the same page as your legion of current admirers.

  214. Lynda May 17, 2009 @ 4:01 pm

    Dear Father John,

    It would be good for you to know that the Roman Rite (canonized at Trent) consecrates the Chalice with the following words:

    Hic est Enim Calix Sanguinis Mei, Novi et Aeterni Testamenti: Mysterium Fidei: Qui Pro Vobis et Pro Multis Effundetur in Remissionem Peccatorum

    This is the Chalice of my Blood, of the New and Everlasting Covenant, a Mystery of Faith. It shall be shed for you and for many others, so that sins may be forgiven.

  215. Lynda May 17, 2009 @ 4:06 pm

    Dear Fr John,

    Obviously you have huge issues (not all of them theological) with the Roman Catholic Church. Argue then with the Roman Catholic Church as a proper heretic.

    Do not pick on the novus ordo. That is arguing the straw man.

    The Council of Trent (infallibly) expounds the Mysterium Fidei with regard to the ‘pro multis’

    The additional words for you and for many, are taken, some from Matthew, some from Luke, but were joined together by the Catholic Church under the guidance of the Spirit of God. They serve to declare the fruit and advantage of His Passion. For if we look to its value, we must confess that the Redeemer shed His blood for the salvation of all; but if we look to the fruit which mankind have received from it, we shall easily find that it pertains not unto all, but to many of the human race.”

  216. Lynda May 17, 2009 @ 4:14 pm

    Dear Father John,

    For your edification, the Council of Trent continues:

    “When therefore our Lord said: ‘For you’ He meant either those who were present, of or those chosen from among the elect of the Old Covenant sucha s were with the exception of Judas, the disciples with whom He was speaking. When He added, ‘And for many’ He wished to be understood to mean the remainder of the elect from among the circumsion or the Gentiles.

    With reason, therefore, wer the words for all not used, as in this place the fruits of the Passion are alone spoken of, and to the elect only did His Passion bring the fruit of salvation. And this is the pruport of the Apostle when he says: ‘Christ was offered once to exhaust the sins of many; and also of the words of our Lord in Hohn: I pray for them; I pray not for the world,but for them whom thous hast given me, because they are thine.”

    The novus ordo change of the canonized rite in order to use the anathematized ‘for all’ is an alteration of the Mysterium Fidei itself in self in the service of teaching an heretical doctrine of universal salvation. (Also under the anathema)

  217. Stav May 17, 2009 @ 4:18 pm

    Hi Juan,

    I am sorry I missed your question.
    I will check out these videos,

    Thanks,
    Stav

  218. Michael K. May 17, 2009 @ 6:32 pm

    Dear Stav,

    I would like to hear Apollonian’s answers myself, because I take stock in what he is saying here. However, I feel compelled to relate to you how I have thus far dealt with this question of what to do.

    My life is as a self-sufficient farmer and jack-of-all-trades. So I can say that those two things are going to give the best near-term solutions to the question of how to survive the fall.

    You see, my family is ‘middle class’, but thirty years ago, things happened which left us poor. However, we continue to exist. This means I’ve had all this time to ponder what a stranded middle-class person should do.

    Man obtains real wealth from the environment. His tools are the leverage he has over the natural world. If you don’t have tools, go buy some as an investment, as long as you know how to use them. The skills one needs are varied, as are the tools, but the aim should be to be able to maintain and reproduce the things you rely on to give you an advantage over nature.

    Shelter that is portable yet durable is a need that one has from day one, in the world where rapid change sets in. Shelter is the ultimate tool; it let’s you sleep warm and dry and out of the way of insects. I would see to it that I had such shelter as a reserve, and as a way to move to an area where I could grow food cheaply and in relative liberty.

    Farming and gardening skills and tools are uppermost, after self maintenance. This is the only way anyone stays free long. Owning the food, having it stored, and growing more are the basis of economic and hence political freedom.

    Guns; well they are the tools that one needs to fight animals without dying of one’s wounds. Animals will always find your food interesting.

    But, from my own experience, you need to get back to the land, get off of the ‘control grid’, and establish credibility with you neighbors as a hard worker so that you get included in local economic life. Nobody who works has time for anyone who doesn’t.

    Sitting in a sterile city full of desperate people is a bad position to face the “Genocide of the Middle Class.” The country has room, and there is a way to trade upon middle class specialty skills out there, too. But they really only can be considered supplemental value over the essential task of creating the material means of existence.

    I hope this is encouraging or in some way helpful. Peace.

  219. Fr. Joseph May 17, 2009 @ 8:44 pm

    Each one of us has our personal and unique talents and abilities - and our God and Divine Father in Heaven expects each and every one of us TO USE those talents and abilities for the sake of others.

    So let me share with all of you a contemplative insight granted to me here at my hermitage as an ordained Priest in His Church’s Monastic Brotherhood. If possible, I would have liked for it to help and bless our entire Human Race.

    At some point “in time” long, long ago, our God, Creator and the Author of Life decided by His Own Divine Free Will to create ALL that is seen and unseen - and all of us members of the Human Race ENJOY totally and absolutely “free of charge” possessing and living these lives of ours in this “All” not of our designing, creating and sustaining.

    And at some point “in time” past, our same God, Creator and Divine Father in Heaven decided by an Act, a Movement within His Own Divine Being to grant all of us HIS DIVINE FORGIVENESS for our rebellion against our All-good God and all of our ABUSE of every conceivable type and form we may have wrought upon each other and His Creation.

    Let us, therefore, come to the most complete and absolute STOP of our spinning minds and emotions for but several minutes today in order to simply dwell upon what GOD HIMSELF has done for all of us members of the Human Race of 2009 Anno Domini -

    He has granted us His Divine FORGIVENESS so that each and every last one of us can RETURN to Him in a spiritual communion in being constantly MINDFUL of Him and His Ineffable Divine Kindness and Mercy towards ALL OF US, His spiritual children here in this royally fouled up ‘World’ of ours, the year now being 2009 Anno Domini.

    - Fr. Joseph

  220. Fr. Joseph May 17, 2009 @ 9:01 pm

    It is that entirely Divine Choice and Divine Act on the part of our God and Father in Heaven TO GRANT US HIS DIVINE FORGIVENESS which forms and constitutes the very core-essense of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic CHRISTIAN Faith.

    In His becoming Incarnate in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary who conceived the Eternally Begotten Divine Son of God the Father by the Divine Power of God the Holy Spirit, as a Sinless Human Being filled with the Divine Graces and Divine Life of the Eternal God, the Holy Spirit, He alone was capable of perfectly obeying and fulfilling the Eternal Will of God our Father and His Father in Heaven.

    By His Perfect Obedience to fulfilling the Divine Will of God, He could lay down His Life in perfect filial obedience to our Father in Heaven - laying down His Life to the point of enduring a Crucifixion on a Roman Cross thus having to endure in His Total Divine Innocence the entire range of spiritual manifestations of the effects of EVIL and SIN in which the Human Race was hopelessly buried and mired.

    God Incarnate thus properly initiates for all of Mankind the Perfect Sacrifice of Total Filial Love and Obedience to our God and Father in Heaven in bequeathing to ALL generations of human beings the Offering of His Body and His Blood to His and our Divine Father in Heaven SO THAT all of our sins can be FORGIVEN.

    And that His Body and His Blood would obtain the FOR MANY the Divine forgiveness of our sins.

    That’s what the Church’s MASS, the Church’s varied DIVINE LITURGIES is all about - a spiritual reason to offer up our GRATITUDE to God for His Divine Choice by His Own Divine FREE WILL to extend to us members of the Human Race His Divine Forgiveness of our sins, our willfully chosen ABUSE of these God-given natures of ours and the God-given natures He has granted to others.

    - Fr. Joseph

  221. Fr. Joseph May 17, 2009 @ 9:06 pm

    So, GO TO MASS! GO to the Divine Liturgies!

    Go to the Christian Church’s Divine Sacrament of Confession-Reconciliation!

    Obtain God’s Graces of His Holy Spirit via the Christian Church’s Divine Sacrament of Confirmation, of Chrismation!

    Get yourselves BAPTIZED in the Christian Church’s Divine Sacrament of Baptism!

    Avail yourselves of God’s Own Divine Forgiveness for ALL the wrong and all of the abuses you have done and caused others which has contributed to this World of ours being so royally fouled up!

    Give God the Father of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ REASON to extend to the entire Human Race some more TIME, some more MERCY, some more amounts and type of Divine Grace SO THAT God’s Divine, Holy and All-good Divine Will can really and truly become MADE MANIFEST to all the nations of peoples all across this royally fouled up World of ours!

    - Fr. Joseph

  222. jgalindes May 18, 2009 @ 3:14 am

    Dear Father Joseph,

    Thanks for these wonderful words.

    This is the Church I always heard about.

    Given the time zone difference I’m reading at 7:00 and will certainly illuminate my day.

    With deep respect

    Juan

  223. jgalindes May 18, 2009 @ 3:28 am

    And I read that the American Administration is changing its mind regarding the fatidic “State of Israel”.

    Tell you what, if all this is not another big deception it surely will allow to all us to see God working promisses on humanity.

    Asking them the acknowledge nuclear arsenal, sign NPT, cut blank check, force a Palestinean State (not bantustans) and not allowing any surprise attack on Iran, altogether, if really put in practice, will clearly show a tremendous miracle.

    And do you know which 1s the miracle’s root.

    Your economic ruin, that is forcing the really bad guys in Washington to change attitudes, the polls that Mr.Obama ordered showed 78% of american jews against the continuation of Israel policies.

    Me thinks they are really afraid, that the people arrive to the conclusion that them are behind all this calamity.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/5335620/Obama-to-warn-Israels-PM-Benjamin-Netanyahu-No-more-blank-cheques.html

  224. apollonian May 18, 2009 @ 7:40 am

    Proper Christian Strategy: Reading Reality And Calculating Cyclic Phase Of Things Historical
    (Apollonian, 18 May 09)

    Remember we live under general conditions of Greek TRAGEDY–humans are naturally sinful, always have been and always will be, and life sucks–so don’t get ur hopes up too high in first place.

    Subjectivism should be kept to oneself; Father Joseph, u talk way too much. If u can’t give objective info; just refrain fm cluttering up Bro. Kapner’s blog, I suggest. Also, try to send more funds to Bro. Kapner and myself.

    Greatest problem is the false “objectivity” that’s offered–the conspiratorial Jew lies which so often and so much rule the world. Of course gentiles lie too, but Jews are most Talmudically and sublimely organized, never forget.

    Thus God’s creation is objective, and by means of careful study, we observe TRUTH–when we’re smartest and wisest. One of MOST BASIC truths we observe is the CYCLIC nature of reality, history, and socio-biology, all in accord with “Decline of the West,” by Oswald Spengler. For note day is cyclic as is month and year, for examples.

    Thus one of the greatest occurrances in all human history was that magnificent Jew Expulsion instituted by St. Constantine the Great (and indeed, that’s why we made him “Saint”); Jews have been making gradual, cyclic, comeback ever since, and our present task is to emulate St. Constantine.

    Thus our present strategy must simply relate with conditions as they existed back then, during late Roman times–applied now for today. Christians getting out to preaching person-to-person is absolutely INVINCIBLE–we just need for more of this to be done by heroes and saints–Bro. Kapner is good example. Pastor Carlson at Whtt.org is another magnificent example.

    My own saintly and God-ordained purpose is to blog dialectically on internet, long as it continues to exist.

    Our present situation can much be compared with the Roman empire’s famous “Third Century Crisis,” according to historian, Mike Grant, which Roman peril was saved by magnificent Christian saints, soldiers, and heroes, led by St. Constantine, again.

    But remember, as history is CYCLIC, things will inevitably degenerate no matter how great our prospective victory and success–such is TRAGIC, sinful human nature, unfortunately, once again.

    For human beings insist upon lying to themselves and pretending to Godly-type “free will” (HUBRIS); Jews are merely the parasitic leaders who act in sublime collective manner which gives them greatest advantage–a most powerful CRIMINAL gang, literally, dignified with a religion and even “Holy” writing–like the Talmud, for instance, a sublime war-strategy they use so brilliantly.

    Problem for Jew parasites is THEY’VE SUCCEEDED, the gentile host now being reduced–which threatens Jew parasite disease-of-opportunity who must now fall-out w. one another–as we see is happening ALREADY, CFR-Bilderberg (see TheNewAmerican.com and AugustReview.com for expo/ref.) agents, Walt-Mearsheimer putting “finger” on “The Israel Lobby.”

    Hence therefore best thing for us Christian heroes and soldiers to do presently is consider and observe like scientists this latest historical CYCLE which has seen the triumph of Judeo-conspirators behind the Federal Reserve Bank (Fed) COUNTERFEIT (again always ck RealityZone.com and TheMoneyMasters.com for best expo/ref. on Fed) fraud which is so far so invincible, which has bought and corrupted EVERYTHING–INCLUDING present Christian establishments, esp. the Roman “Vatican,” “evangelicals,” etc.

    Thus subjectivism (lying) has most notably affected ethics in these “modern” times, since J.J. Rousseau, and instituted rationalist-styled neo-Pelagian (”good-evil” delusion/fallacy) heresy–especially modeled after Immanuel Kant which quickly led to Hegelian absolute state, then of course, Marxism, which revolutionized such as American achievement which featured Constitutional republic founded on individual freedom.

    Hence then we patriots and Christian soldiers must simply reverse this modernist neo-Pelagianism ethical trend, restoring primacy of HONESTY in honor of Truth. Task is simple in concept.

    But we must feature a RATIONALIST Christianity–NOT MYSTICISM (subjectivism) which is the enemy, the problem–that’s why Father Joseph is so counter-productive, even though he hasn’t the wit to see it.

    Note again GLARING WEAK-POINT for Judeo-conspirators, the “Judeo-Christian” (JC–see Whtt.org and TruthTellers.org for expo/ref.) hereticalists who imagine Christ was Jew, hence Talmudist–this then is obvious delusion upon which poor JC goons, dupes, suckers, and morons must be enlightened and dis-abused.

    Our specific task then is to start with this GLARING weak-point for Judeo-conspirators, the JCs, informing JCs of obvious truth that Christ was foremost anti-semite (anti-Talmud, as Gosp. MARK 7:1-13, and JOHN 8:44).

    For what do Jew criminal conspirators rely upon, for practical purposes (aside fm the abstract lying they do regarding neo-Pelagianism)?–COUNTERFEITING, pure and simple–it took a long time for them to get it going so successfully as it is now. Thus Jew masterminds simply own and control EVERYTHING–and I mean EVERYTHING.

    CONCLUSION: So again, don’t forget to send much-need funds for Bro. Kapner. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonian

  225. Fr. Joseph May 18, 2009 @ 9:01 am

    Dear jgalindes,

    While you might be “down there” living amongst the people of Argentina while I live “up here” amongst the people of the United States of America - the ontological FACT remains, we ALL live on this planet earth of our Creator God’s Making amongst ALL the peoples of this planet earth to whom He has granted existance, life and being.

    Cain answered God Who asked him where was Abel after Cain murdered his brother Abel:

    “Am I my brother’s keeper?”

    All of us ARE called to watch out for each other. I believe it is in the non-canonical ‘gnostic’ Gospel of Thomas this saying of the Lord Jesus if found:

    “Watch out for your brother like the pupils of your eyes.”

    We take great care in AVOIDING becoming blinded and blind since we rely so almost totally exclusively on our physical sense of SIGHT to be about our daily living the human life routines.

    If we do NOT watch out for each other as “brothers” of the Same Divine Father in Heaven Who sent us His Only Eternally Begotten Son to be our Divine Savior for all of Mankind, we aren’t being much of a “human” human being.

    - Fr. Joseph

  226. Fr. Joseph May 18, 2009 @ 9:17 am

    The single greatest overlooked fact, the only thing one needs to understand about politics and governance in these United States of America is that its leaders and its people are in open opposition to God’s Christ to our World and His Divine Teachings and His Divine Commandments. And these United States of America, its leaders and its people will remain being so UNTIL earnestly humbled by Christ Jesus, God Incarnate Himself.

    People and World Leaders simply do not learn from past history.

    God pronounced His Expressed Will to a stubborn Pharoah, and Pharoah and his people were made to suffer. Exodus 6:1

    God pronounced His Expressed Will to a hubris filled King Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 4:25-30.

    God pronounced His Expressed Will to a hubris filled King Belshazzar in Daniel 5:1-6:1.

    God Incarnate pronounced His Expressed Will to the people of His Time living within Jerusalem. Matthew 23:37-39. Josephus in his record of the ‘Jewish Wars’ describes the HORRORS that befall the people of Jerusalem while undergoing the seige of ten Roman legions.

    Secular U.S. social critics/commentators have published many a fine book describing WHAT these United States of America have become. Take C. Wright Mill’s words from the chapter entitled ‘The Higher Immorality’ in his book ‘The Power Elite’:

    “Commanders of power unequaled in human history, they have succeeded within the American system of ORGANIZED IRRESPONSIBILITY.” - see on-line refererence
    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Book_Excerpts/HigherImmorality_PE.html

    - Fr. Joseph

  227. Fr. Joseph May 18, 2009 @ 9:33 am

    So what can one soul possibly DO when the so-called “democratic ruling majority” have made the Fiat of their State superior to the Fiat of God, whether the self described “democratic ruling majority” is enthroned here in the USA or any other nation-state in our contemporary World?

    Their manifold types of “Fiat of the State” does not RE-DEFINE Reality as it is. For all of their supposed “powers”, not a single one of them can pass wind on command. Not one of them can burp on command. Not one of them can hiccup on command. And not one of them can even so manage to REGULATE their own God-given physical body’s temperature!

    Yet, by gosh by golly, when it comes to passing every manner of ‘Fiat of the State’ while they all scurry and hide BEING the undifferientated mass-identity of their particular corporate body or organization so as TO AVOID personal moral and ethical responsibility to the PEOPLE of their own country and to the PEOPLE of other nations and states all across the World, they actually believe they have ‘power’!

    God expressed HIS Divine Will to ‘World Leaders’ down through the centuries. To Pharoah. To Kings. To Ruling Elite of ancient cities such as Jerusalem.

    And God has already expressed His Divine Will and Intentions to the ‘World Leaders’ of our own day and age.

    Take, for example, the following Messages of February 6 and 13, 1994 here:

    http://www.ourlovingmother.org/Messages_Monthly_1994_OurLovingMother.aspx

    This Message makes is as Divinely “Clear As A Bell” for these corrupt and utterly IMMORAL United States of America. From March 6 and 9, 1991:

    http://www.ourlovingmother.org/Messages_TenCommandments.aspx#five

    One can only WARN hubris filled, self-seeking, lying, deceiving, indifferent and utterly irresponsible LEADERS of the USA as well as nation-states throughout the entire World they ALL had better ’stop everything’ so as to consider what it is that GOD wants done down here on earth only so many times before one succumbs to the inner conclusion

    “What’s The Use? They do not listen and there is NOTHING ELSE I can do about all of this!”

    - Fr. Joseph

  228. jgalindes May 18, 2009 @ 10:29 am

    Apollonian said:

    “Subjectivism should be kept to oneself; Father Joseph, u talk way too much. If u can’t give objective info; just refrain fm cluttering up Bro. Kapner’s blog, I suggest.”

    “…But we must feature a RATIONALIST Christianity–NOT MYSTICISM (subjectivism) which is the enemy, the problem–that’s why Father Joseph is so counter-productive, even though he hasn’t the wit to see it….”

    “…Christ was foremost anti-semite…”

    Look father Joseph,I disagree completely with this poor guy.

    I felt that I have to let this clearly stated.

    Remaining silent would be equivalent to ratify whatever he said.

    Please check the following lik comments,close to the end…:
    http://thecaucasianliteraryreview.blogspot.com/2009/04/finally-stranger.html

  229. Isabella May 18, 2009 @ 11:41 am

    Father John makes some excellent points:

    1. Racial supremacy is inculcated into Jews at birth.

    2.That Christian effort spent on Talmudics is not worth it, compared to other pursuits, since Talmudic repentance is rare. How many Christians want to give up their own lives holding a life-time vigil for a Talmudist, who refers to them with expletives?

    3. If they want to be saved as Christians, Talmudists must leave the Talmud completely behind– a total break with the chosen people myth.

    3. Conversion of Bro. N is unlike that of the Talmudist’ case. When you read Bro N’s history, he, personally, did not identify with the Talmud and confronted it with the truth, pretty much on his own..because the evidence of Jesus Christ is out there, if you just acknowledge it.

    4. Stop funding Zionism

  230. KathJuliane May 18, 2009 @ 11:52 am

    God bless you, JGalindes.

    Thinking that you may be interested in where Orthodox parishes may be in South America to study patristics and find additional sources, here is the website of my beautiful Serb bishop, Maxim of the SOC Western Diocese.

    The Eastern Diocese links lists addresses of several SOC parishes and missions in Argentina and one in Brazil. There are also other links with the other Orthodox Churches in collegial communion with each other, which may list any communities of their respective territories in SA.

    http://www.serborth.org/bishopwest.html

    your sister in Jesus Christ, KathJ

  231. jgalindes May 18, 2009 @ 12:19 pm

    Dear KathJuliane
    Again,thanks for your helpful advise.

    Will check web-site.

    Juan

  232. KathJuliane May 18, 2009 @ 12:39 pm

    My dear brother JGalindes,

    As Stav pointed out earlier, the OC has a more simple organizational structure, and remained “concillar and collegial”, while the RCC evolved in the 9-12 centuries into the Papal monarchy as the centralized “post-concillar” Church.

    We Eastern Churches have no designated hierarchal office of the Magisterium, per se, which is also partitioned, it seems, into further offices. Our internal church life flows much differently in a less structured concept called in Greek, ‘Syndiakonia’. The RZN family on dear Bro Nathanael’s site, whether Christian or not, operates along this same dynamic principle.

    And, the “Eastern Christian” paradigm and that of the “Western Christian” can seem to be talking about the same thing, yet the historical, traditional and perceptual contexts might be literally worlds apart.

    Let’s take the OC liturgical titles “The holy foremost-of-the-Apostles Peter” and “The holy foremost-of-the-Apostles Paul”. The hymns for their Feast speak of Sts Peter and Paul as the leaders (koryphaioi), and chiefs of the Apostles. They are, without a doubt, the foremost in the ranks of the Apostles. In the western mind “Peter and Paul” have certain connotations, while the eastern mind understands them differently as models of humble service in imitation of Jesus.

    The koryphaioi were leaders of the chorus in ancient Greek tragedy. They set the pattern for the singing, and also for the dance movements and gestures of the chorus. Before Sophocles, there were twelve members of the chorus, and Sts Peter and Paul were the koryphaioi of the twelve Apostles, as they set the pattern by their lives for the planting of the churches in the great commission. It was not too unusual for a bishop to figuratively address another bishop in their epistles to each other as “the Peter of your flock” in the sense that he was a koryphai like Peter in imitation of Christ, but in “the west”, say ‘Peter’ and we think ‘Pope’.

    As I’ve studied so far, the Magisterium is the official “teaching authority, of the Roman Catholic Church”. The word is derived from L. magisterium, which originally meant the office of a president, chief, director, superintendent, etc, but it also has a dictatorial implication. It also meant though more rarely, the office of tutor or instructor of youth, tutorship, guardianship, or teaching, instruction, advice. In terms of Orthodox life, ‘magisterium’ would be closer to the second sense of the word.

    As the Magisterium, this authority is embodied in the episcopacy of the RCC, which is the aggregation of the current bishops of the church, led by the Bishop of Rome (the Pope), who has authority over the bishops, individually and as a body, as well as over each and every Catholic directly. According to RC doctrine, the Magisterium is able to teach or interpret the truths of the Faith, and it does so either non-infallibly or infallibly. I also understand that there is a further type of formalized division of some sort as to theologians and the episcopacy itself.

    So, as I understand the ecclesiastical lines of teaching authority in the lines of discipline of the RCC found in the Catechism, the task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him. In terms of “teacher” and “the taught”, the “teacher” is the episcopate under the supreme rule of the Pope, while “the taught” are the laity.

    Bishop Kallistos beautifully describes the essence of the Greek concept of “Syndiakonia” in Christian community between the episcopal hierarchy and the laity as bilateral “fellow-laborers”, “co-teachers”, “with mutual service” in mutual obedience and submission within Orthodox life. The ordained “orders” of bishops, priests, and deacons come from the laity, and they remain within the life of the laity, and not above it. The bishops are the final authority on matters in terms of accountability, but not the sole “dictatorial” authority, as with the unilateral principal of the more formal RCC office of the “Magisterium” which is unilateral, teaching from the top down.

    Syndiakonia incorporates the experience of the bishops and clergy living WITHIN their flocks, not as a hierarchy distinctly set apart within Church discipline. Should I have a question or a problem that could ultimately only be resolved at the level of the Patriarchate in Serbia, the process would be just two steps: my bishop to my patriarch.

    Syndiakonia is hierarchically “authoritative”, while Magisterium is “authoritarian” in orientation.

    Syndiakonia Defined

    From a lecture by Bishop Kallistos, “How Christian is Our Understanding of Church Authority?” delivered at the Orientale Lumen V Conference, June 2001

    “The power to discern between truth and falsehood is not the monopoly of any particular hierarch or order within the Church. It is the power given to all the baptized, to the royal priesthood in its totality. So here, in the sacrament of Chrismation, our personal Pentecost, we have the basis of what is known as the sensus fidelum – the general conscience of the Church. It is not just a diffused feeling. It is a sacramental power.

    The Holy Spirit does not only speak through the hierarchy. The Holy Spirit speaks through all the people of God. It may sometimes be lay people who save the church from heresy when the bishops fall away. This is well-put by a Latin Father of the fourth century, Saint Paulinus of Nola. “Let us hang upon the lips of all the faithful, for the Spirit of God breathe upon every one of them.” We listen to all the faithful. It may often be not a Patriarch or a Pope who speaks the truth but a lay person.

    Our Lord Jesus said: “When the Spirit of Truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth”. The “you” there doesn’t mean the Pope of Rome, the Patriarch of Constantinople, the bishops, the professional theologians. “You” means every baptized and chrismated member of the Church.

    If we are to have a right understanding of the collegiality of bishops, the meaning of “synod” and of the place of primacy in the Church, we must never forget that the Holy Spirit is poured out on the total people of God. We must never forget the sensus fidelium, the general conscience of the Church.

    So there isn’t within the Church a one-way power structure. There is a mutuality, co-responsibility, communion. The truth enlarges through the communion between the bishop and the people. Communion is the highest authority in the Church.

    Here we recall Christ’s words the exousia – “power” means “diakonia” – service. “I am among you as one who serve,” says Christ. So the bishop is the servant of his flock. That must surely mean, among other things, that he needs to listen to them. As Saint Gregory the Theologian says, “Even bishops have to learn.”

  233. Fr. Joseph May 18, 2009 @ 1:29 pm

    Dear Juan,

    I’ve been doing Christian apologetics work for a about 25 years now. When it comes to the Internet, you ARE going to have to deal with people of all sorts and types.

    I’ve had to deal with satanists, witches, warlocks, New Age types of every sort and type. Vehemently anti-Pope and anti-Catholic Church bible fundamentalists from every imaginable corner of the world. You have to deal with the atheists, the anarchists, the nihilists, Christ-haters of every type and sort imaginable.

    So while it might deflate Apollonian’s opinion of himself and cause him a certain amount of disappointment that his rhetoric, words, thoughts and comments towards me is very much like yet another “slight breeze” blown onto me. It comes and it goes.

    After 25 years worth of this sort of stuff, one can’t help but find oneself being clad in very “thick skin”.

    Apollonian shoots himself in the foot regarding Christianity and Mysticism. For in order for ANY person alive on planet earth to come to putting on the Mind of Christ, ya simply MUST have a “mystical experience” of the Unseen Spiritual Graces of God the Holy Spirit.

    Such mystical experiences include having one’s mind opened to an abiding and penetrating UNDERSTANDING of what it is that God desires to do and what God desires to get done and for what Reason.

    There is no point in attempt to explain to Apollonian that the Gifts of God the Holy Spirit are ‘MYSTICAL’ in nature. Being enlightened and ‘Confirmed’ with Knowledge, Understand and Wisdom regarding Divine Things IS a ‘mystical experience’.

    Subordinated to the Seven Spiritual Gifts of God the Holy Spirit are the various Charismatic Gifts such as “prophecy” and the working of “miracles”.

    The Church has had its PROPHETS since the time of Pentecost. And the Church as seen MIRACLES WORKERS. Case in point - St. Vincent Ferrer. St. Anthony the Wonder Worker.

    Apollonian attempts to promote his brand, his version of the Christian Faith based on human limitations and weakness which is very prone to being affected by and influenced by unseen elemental spirits who are NOT affiliated with or concerned for the Divine Mission of Christ’s Church here on earth.

    - Fr. Joseph

  234. jgalindes May 18, 2009 @ 2:07 pm

    Dear KathJuliane,

    Starting to understand structural differences between RCC and OC.

    I really appreciate your effort and dedication in teaching this your very simple brother in Jesus.

    Note that I’m very limited in religious matters, dedicated my life to the understanding of the physical world, where you “invent” a model, try it in a laboratory and hopefuly prove it with some kind of limited experiment.

    As you may recognize, the world of spiritual knowledge is far removed from mine, or perhaps I was removed that much from it…

    So,at this point do not be dissapointed with my rather simplistic inquires.

    Juan

  235. jgalindes May 18, 2009 @ 2:50 pm

    Dear Father Joseph,

    I was completely unaware of the existence of Scripture twisting /warping by people that declare themselves christians.

    Internet can be a mine-field for people without a clear understanding of the “enemy’s work”.

    I’m quite sure that my problem with the Talmudists is precisely that piece of crap in either version.

    Not actualy any racial difference.

    With regards,your friend,
    Juan

  236. Hoff May 18, 2009 @ 3:19 pm

    Just another day in The Killing Field of Jewistan.

    http://www.thestate.com/166/story/788844.html

  237. Stav May 18, 2009 @ 3:44 pm

    Hi All,

    A general mix of subjects in this post, directly out of topic but indirectly very much in the spirit of this whole thread.

    Perhaps one thing that will make the Orthodox position a bit more clear (and ONLY for the ones who are actually interested in this), as far as mysticism goes and as far as where understanding comes into all of this, is this:

    The most prominent and more used Orthodox Prayer, used and taught, especially within the monastic environment is:

    “Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy upon me a sinner.”

    It is prayed by monks and lay people, and is also evolved by many into what we call the prayer of the heart. This prayer takes so much analysis that take books to fill. However in the context of my introduction, this prayer teaches that really, we leave it all to the mercy of Christ. It teaches that He can give us understanding, He can gives us hope, He can give us everything we need. It also teaches us to FOCUS on HIM, rather than anything else.

    And that, if understood and God willing experienced, is the core of Orthodoxy, in the practical sense.

    Putting rationalism, control by ourselves and the idea that we can make a difference simply by “applying a good strategy” as a first objective and Jesus Christ only as some secondary objective to attain, or worse simply as an example to follow now and then, is a mentality that displays a profound lack of Faith.

    And that, is exactly the difference between Orthodoxy and the RCC AND rationalists, who have convinced themselves that they are Christian simply because they find agreeable things in Christianity.

    Did not Jesus say that if one has even a little FAITH they can move mountains? He did not say, if one has sense or rational thought that they can move mountains.

    And thus these are the two great advantages of Faith:

    1) It requires NO mental intellectual power,
    2) It can be practiced by ALL.

    As far as mysticism goes, let me mention here the case of our Greek Elders, Fr. Profyrios, Father Paisios and others who have all just passed away just a few years ago. The sheer quantity of people, who run in the thousands, will and have testified, that these people, while simple, in their ways, did not only perform miracles in a very “MYSTICAL” way, but their legacy overpowers even the most doubtful, in this country. Thousands of people, visiting them unannounced were greeted by name, were told specific INSTRUCTIONS on what to do to solve a material or spiritual problem and a lot more. These people had two things in common:

    1) They had relentless faith,
    and
    2) They practiced the Lord’s prayer (mentioned above), also relentlessly.

    Their advise when asked several times, about rationalism was not necessarily negative and not dismissive of it, but rather, to be EXTREMELY careful as pure rational thought can bring very easily a spiritual loss of sight.

    The ancient Greeks said:
    “A healthy mind in a heathy body”

    Implied, Orthodoxy also adds to this the following:
    “A healthy mind in a healthy soul”
    This means that without a proper and clear view of Jesus Christ GOD ALLMIGHTY AND THE CREATOR OF ALL in our minds, any attempts at pure rationalism will not be sufficient for any purpose.

    One last comment about “Christian Rationalism” and ignoring anything mystical:
    What if any, usefulness, can several non material aspects and premises of Christianity and other religions have for a Rationalist?

    For example, what about the existence of the soul? Rationally, and in the absence of any personal spiritual experience that implies its existence in a very personal and undeniable way, the soul does not exist.

    But if the soul is accepted as non-existing by someone, then can then they call themselves also Christian?

    Th reverse is also true, if one accepts Christianity, then are they not also accepting a good many number of things that actually are either miraculous or at leas mystical? And if they accept the existence of these, then what about our own immediate and in close proximity world, who is to say that miracles are not happening or at least that their possibility is there?

    What is not true however, is that it makes sense that one can claim to be Christian, but then, at the same time, completely disregard and/or refute the mystical, physically impossible, spiritual and non-rational aspects of it. And even if they claim the do claim such a claim, it is still a false one.

    Example: How does a Purely Rationalist Christian deal with the Apocalypse? Since they claim that mystical experiences should be ignored or even that they do not exist, then they must reject this book from the New Testament. But if they do not, then are they really pure rationalists?

    I love logic and consider my self to be a logical thinker, and I do not reject rationalism. But I do believe at the same time, that rationalism should live within the complete sum of our experiences, including the mystical ones. Thus, it is then able to deal with them in a rational way. It actually IRRATIONAL to reject mystical experiences, on the premise that they cannot be quantified logically.

    But then, this is the tactic of anyone who has already predetermined a few agreeable (to them) premises, and only then attempt to support them by fake rationalism. And it is fake, because it refuses to look at all evidence, including mystical evidence. This tactic, apparently, also includes purposefully ignoring or simply making caricatures of non supporting arguments and people. Finally, this same tactic also includes shamelessly never giving any logical arguments against unsupporting of their own, whilst at the same time, constantly implying and claiming to be (unlike anyone else) completely RATIONAL!!!

    Stav

  238. Stav May 18, 2009 @ 4:24 pm

    Dear appolonian,

    It is irrational and subjective (as defined by you) to say:

    >>My own saintly and God-ordained purpose is to blog dialectically on internet, long as it continues to exist.

    And it is irrational to say that, because you do not commence in dialogue, as it is now very apparent that you do not respond to arguments, you only present your own.

    Your message about having to be more rational, avoid blatant lying, sin less, be aware of the Fed and how this control of valueless currency and other details I agree with and try to expose whenever and where ever I am.

    Fake Fiat money, is the crown achievement of Zionism, at least as far as its time span and almost global application goes. The European Bank and its currency, (the euro) is also exactly the same now, NOT ONE European citizen I know, and I have asked many many people, know who, what, how or why they prints euros or what their secured value is (it has none).

    I wish, that you actually engaged in more of a dialogue, as I am sure we can all learn from EACH OTHER, surely there is something you can possibly learn from us too, not just us from you.

    Try, “for the sake of an argument” to see what Other or I are trying to say here and see if it is anything that you may get something from. While I admire and understand your frustration at seeing so many people being completely irrational and unscientific in their ways, it is important that we encourage the development of a more honest approach, that can deal with any eventuality, even mystical experiences which, I assure you occur.

    Mystical experiences and or knowledge of them is not the root of the problem, nor the enemy. Jesus Christ became man, preached to people and revealed to us that He is the Son of God, sacrificed Himself and resurrected from the dead. His work in this world, was purely mystical and so was the work of the first who perpetuated his story. Their driving force was pure, irrational faith and the end result is Christianity.

    The difference between some irrationally fueled evil practice and a good one, is not the irrationality of it all, but rather the purpose and intention.

    Conversely, there are plenty of evil practices, which are fueled by pure rationalism. Such are for example, the Fiat Money and Banking practices that you bring up in almost any of your posts.

    If you are convinced that you deserve to create all the money in the world, and have people give you pure value for it in return, and discover that you can perpetuate this by bringing on debt ot top of other debt, then why not establish it as a world wide standard? It IS the purely rational rational desire to survive at the expense of others that fuels and enables Zionists and Talmudists to enslave us, not mysticism. Their plans, and practices, while based on false premises, are empowered via rationalism.

    Finally, humans can NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, claim to be completely truthful and rational, given the fact that no human has a complete knowledge of everything. Thus, at some point during their logical deductions, if we assume that they are all logical, they have incorporated false facts into their theories. This, by definition, includes you.

    Thus, even if it is true that pure rational Christianity is the solution, your solution is not applicable, as there is no such thing as a human with perfectly true rationalism. In fact, as you have so many times claimed, it is quite much worse than that, as most people, again according to you, lack rationality.

    Thus, it is clear that it is not subjectivity on its own, nor rationalism, that cause the problems in this world, they are not the enemy. What causes the problems, is INTENTION. If you INTEND to do good, you will do your best to do it. If you INTEND to do evil, you will do your best to do evil.

    Lets argue about all of this, let me give you an opportunity to fulfill you purpose to be truly dialectical (i.e. commence in bidirectional dialogue), by giving you this collection of arguments.

    Stav

  239. Fr. Joseph May 18, 2009 @ 4:50 pm

    Dear Juan,

    So you’ve been devoted to the study and understanding of God’s physical Creation. Are you a professional scientist or engineer of some sorts? If so, you are in GOOD religious-spiritual company! See?

    http://www.catholicbook.com/AgredaCD/MyCatholicFaith/mcfc914a.htm

    If you of any of the truly ‘objective’ scientific fields, you’ll enjoy reading Prof. Odoardo Linoli’s professional and objectively scientific report on his findings of the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano, Italy which occured in the 8th century AD and is still with us ’til this day!

    http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

    - Fr. Joseph

  240. Fr. Joseph May 18, 2009 @ 4:57 pm

    Dear Juan,

    Sorry about the typo error. Catholic Scientists:

    http://www.catholicbook.com/AgredaCD/MyCatholicFaith/mcfc014a.htm

    Anyways, I can highly recommend this book by Archbishop Luis Martinez entitled “True Devotion to the Holy Spirit” as a great help in your own personal spiritual life.

    http://www.amazon.com/True-Devotion-Holy-Spirit-Martinez/dp/1928832059

    - Fr. Joseph

  241. KathJuliane May 18, 2009 @ 6:08 pm

    God bless you Joanne—

    Excellent insights. Please forgive taking so long in this response for you, which I hope you may find worthy of study, and maybe other staunch Biblical Christians find valuable as well.

    Some comments on Romans 9-11, which is often used as a tool to justify Zionism by apostate Judaizing Christians, who single quotes and verses out of the context of the New Testament, following doctrines that are less than 2-3 centuries old and were never propounded seriously in any Christian country before about 1700-1800.

    Chapter 11 that you’ve quoted from deals with the “destiny” of Israel and Gentiles, but two things are important to keep track of, like the timeframe when this was written, and that it is a doctrinal letter on the Christian Faith, and not “prophetic”. Paul was speaking in terms of the spiritual history of old Israel in terms of destiny up until Jesus the Messiah came forth.

    Going back to chapter 9, this discussion of Israel in the theological sense abruptly arises from what might seem an unrelated topic, but this is an epistle written by Paul “the Christian” to a young Christian community about 55 CE, as a response to spiritual questions about situations as they were occurring 2,000 years ago in the pagan Roman Empire, when the great events of the Gospel were very fresh.

    Not only within living memory, but most of the 83 Apostles were still alive along with numerous early disciples of Jesus, and thousands of witnesses that converted after the Crucifixion, like “myriads” of the temple priests, as did James the Just, the step-brother of Jesus.

    Miracles abounded everywhere at the prayers of the Christians. Paul was writing in real time, as the disasters were hitting the empire, Pagans and Jews persecuting the churches, supernatural signs appearing over the temple that even pagan writers observed, and conditions were escalating in and around Jerusalem in Zealot robber band violence and numerous civil disturbances, all expressing the buildup of God’s wrath.

    The second thing is: this is Paul’s most important doctrinal epistle outlining the Faith, by a Christian for the early Christians. In nearly all of his epistles he was often dealing with blended communities of the circumcised and uncircumcised, with a variety of issues going on, the worst of which was pride in being a “chosen”, and Judaizing. As a doctrinal epistle, all of the Epistle to the Roman church must be read from beginning to end as a seamless whole.

    “Judean and Gentile”. In Romans and Galatians, Paul deals extensively with the relation of the Old Covenant to belief in Christ, and how uncircumcised “Pagans” can be full members of the New Covenant by grace through faith, just AS natural Israelites (“the Jews”) were also required to come into the New Covenant by grace through faith and baptism, and not given the automatic birthright as kinsmen. While most of Paul’s epistles correct doctrinal or moral problems, Romans proclaims the faith more logically, completely and systematically, and he argues his case like a lawyer.

    In the early chapters of Romans 1-8, Paul expounds the gospel of God’s righteousness for the salvation of all who believe in Christ, both Jews and Pagans. Paul gives assurance to believers in Jesus Christ that God’s love for Christians will see them through every distress and can never be overpowered or withdrawn (Romans 8:14-39). At this point, some theologians FAIL to make this connection in the abrupt shift of topic to Israel (“the Jews”), notably those Dispensationalists who hold that Romans 9-11 is merely a “parenthesis” in an argument that jumps from Chapter 8 directly to Chapter 12. Instead, Romans 9-11 deals with Israel’s “mystery of iniquity”.

    Here is the background: An accusation was circulating in the first century that God had not kept His promises to Israel—that Israel had been unjustly abandoned by God in favor of idol-worshipping Gentiles. Although many Judeans believed in Christ, the majority adhered to their former leaders and traditions of Pharisaic Judaism instead of submitting to the authority of the Apostles, bishops and presbyters, challenging their authority and introducing false teachings, and was clinging to their racial exclusivity, even after baptism.

    Meanwhile, increasing numbers of pagans were becoming Christians, and the circumcised believers were defecting from the apostolic communities, especially the Roman church, which was originally composed of member converts from the powerful Roman Jewry.

    Paul is answering some burning questions from the Roman circumcised and uncircumcised believers about a grave faith issue—that by rejecting the Gospel and the tragedy of the apostasy of Israel with her many advantages over Pagans, makes it appear that God’s promises have failed.

    Paul vindicates God’s holy name and faithfulness to Israel, in response to questions like: “If God is as powerful and faithful as you portray Him, then why, as more and more Pagans accept the Gospel, are more and more of the Judeans rejecting and opposing it? Didn’t God say repeatedly in the Scripture how much He loves Israel—with an everlasting love’ (Jeremiah 31:2)? If God’s love for the Judeans is everlasting, how can it be that despite centuries of experience with God Himself and despite having God’s Word with its Messianic promises, so many of the Judeans individually and the Judean nation as an entity are refusing this love expressed through His Messiah?”

    Therefore, it is because an uncircumcised believer just coming into the Church, seeing the response of most Judeans to the Gospel, might doubt God’s faithfulness to His own promises or His capacity to fulfill them and thus call into question God Himself, that Paul is compelled at precisely this point in the letter to deal at length with the paradox of massive, hard-hearted unbelief of Israel.

  242. jgalindes May 18, 2009 @ 6:49 pm

    Dear Father Joseph,

    Yep, I’ve been in the electronics engineering field for more than 30 years.

    I’ll check right now both links.

    Father, I’ll like to direct your attention to a good argentinean priest, the late Father Julio Meinvielle, may be you have heard about him.

    He was the greatest Theologian and philosopher of my country, a prolific author and his books are certainly translated into Italian and French.

    He entertained a long philosophical struggle with Maritain .

    His books at least those I’m aware of are:

    1-Concepcion católica de la economia

    2-Concepcion católica de la politica

    3-De la cábala al progresismo
    (Influsso dello gnosticismo ebraico in ambiente cristiano( in Italian))

    4-El comunismo en la revolución anticristiana

    5-El Judio en el misterio de la historia

    6-Iglesia y mundo moderno

    7-LA COSMOVISIÓN DE TEILHARD DE CHARDIN

    8-LA DESCRISTIANIZACIÓN Y JUDAIZACIÓN DEL MUNDO

    9-LA SINARQUIA-El Gobierno Mundial

    10-Los tres pueblos bíblicos en su lucha por la dominación del mundo

    11-Qué saldrá de la España que sangra-De la justa y santa guerra de España

    12-DE LAMENNAIS A MARITAIN

    He started his literary work in the 30’s.

    With regards, Juan

  243. Nicolae May 18, 2009 @ 8:11 pm

    Man charged over ‘anti-Semitic’ YouTube video

    Associated Press

    Thursday, 14 May 2009

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    Police have charged a man who allegedly posted a video on YouTube with inciting racism under a so-far untested Australian state law, officials said today. A newspaper report said the video targeted Jews.

    The 38-year-old man from the west coast city of Perth could become the first person convicted under Western Australia state’s racial vilification laws enacted four years ago.

    The laws were introduced in response to a series of violent attacks by white supremacists around Perth. The only person previously charged under the law was a 16-year-old Aboriginal girl, but a magistrate said the case involved petty name-calling and dismissed it.

    State police spokeswoman Susan Usher said the suspect will appear in court next Tuesday charged with “conduct likely to incite animosity or racist harassment.” He cannot be identified under Australian law until his first court appearance.

    If convicted, he faces a possible maximum penalty of 14 years in prison plus a fine of 24,000 Australian dollars ($18,000).

    Detectives acting on a tip arrested the man at his home yesterday. He was released on bail, Usher said.

    The video shot at locations around Perth “contained content that was targeting a specific religion including threats to harm specific persons,” Usher said.

    Commissioner Karl O’Callaghan said police had contacted YouTube about having the video removed.

    “We have been working with them to pull the video down and they have been fairly cooperative in the past,” O’Callaghan told reporters.

    Police have not specified the religion. But the Perth-based newspaper The West Australian said Jews were targeted.

    The newspaper said the 10-minute video showed the man saying to the camera “your days are numbered” and “I will put you in the camps with the rest of them.”

    He is also shown taunting a Jewish man outside a shopping centre and calling him a “racist, homicidal maniac,” the newspaper said.

    Also yesterday, an Australian who has denied the Holocaust occurred was sentenced to three months in prison in a different state for defying an order to stop publishing anti-Semitic material on his Web site.

    The man, Fredrick Toben, remains free pending an appeal in the Federal Court in South Australia.

    Toben last year avoided prosecution in Germany on a Holocaust denying charge when a British court ruled against extraditing him. In 1999, Toben was convicted in Germany on a similar charge and served seven months in prison.

  244. Fr. Joseph May 18, 2009 @ 10:23 pm

    Dear Juan,

    While I am not at all fluent in Spanish, I do recall some of my two years worth of high school Spanish and can make out the Fr. Meinvielle’s subject matter in his books. With regards to contemporary geopolitical and socio-religious matters, looks to me as if Fr. Meinvielle had the vision of what was coming “down the ‘pike”.

    While this is the first time I’ve heard of Fr. Meinvielle, I trust his works on Catholic principles of politics and social economic justice echo the Church’s teachings in those matters.

    The gnostic infusion into the pycho-spiritual life blood of the Human Race via both Communism and Cabbalism, the de-Christianized and the re-Judiazing of the World ought to be readily apparent to virtually anybody who has any sense to religious and spiritual movements in our World today.

    Surely, it’s just common “horse sense” that those who control the purse strings and the very economic life of entire nations work to diligently IMPOSE their own particular political agendas on the masses of Humanity via that nation’s political parties, the IMF, any number of transnational corporations, etc. And it is folly to think that these same individuals have no intention of forcing their particular religious-spiritual beliefs on the mases of Humanity as well!

    The Masonic, Rosicrucian, Hermetic-Occult and Qabbalist International Alliance of 1931 is running geopolitical circles around the Catholic Church and her Divine Mandate and Divine Mission to the nations and peoples of our World.

    The Fatima Collegial Consecration was (and still is) God’s Own Remedy-Response to this global satanic psycho-spiritual-temporal assault against the Church and Humanity.

    And that don’t look like its going to happen given that our Catholic Church’s Hierarchy has been infiltrated by the satanists.

    Looks grim for all of us. But perhaps our God and Father in Heaven will cause some sort of another ‘Miracle’ to occur so that all might not be lost.

    Only time and our endurance will tell.

    - Fr. Joseph

  245. jgalindes May 19, 2009 @ 2:30 am

    Dear Father Joseph,

    Have checked both links.
    In fact in my very modest life as a practical user of the Universal physical Laws of God,I never hesitated in recognizing in the beauty of natural laws the hands of The Designer.

    While many prefer to explain things starting from a caotical universe I do prefer to think in an always present order permeating nature.

    Caos being a subset of order not the contrary.

    Regarding the book by Fr.Matínez I’ll buy it asap.It’s precisely the subject that intuitively I always felt a certain lack of understanding and reading book contents I realize that addresses exactly what I need.

    And how important it is for my salvation!

    Father,follows a link to some of Meinvielle books in Spanish:

    http://www.nacionalismocatolico.com/

    (Meinvielle was taken as an spiritual guide by many in the nationalistic movements ,specially in th 40’s and 50’s,because of his books on the “jewish problem”).An was stigmatized with the epithet “anti-semite”.

    He really was a visionary of sorts.

    Probably based in scripture,felt the coming age of the world government,and the process of spiritual degradation under development in the Church well before II Vatican Council ,specially by the works of certain Theologians (Maritain,TEILHARD DE CHARDIN,et.al)

    Have a good and profitable day,Father!

    Juan
    .

  246. Joanne May 19, 2009 @ 5:24 am

    Dear KathJuliane:

    Are you suggesting that the Bible, God’s Holy word was Null and Void up to the 1700s?

    God’s word is to be taken seriously and literally for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter 1:21

    False teachers must be denounced because Zionists will try and exploit the masses with their deceptive words.

    There are many false prophects in our midst even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies.

    Read Revelation: the prophecies are written for the Tribulation period, following the Rapture. A warning to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this book (Revelation), God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book (Revelation) and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

    God’s word is Truth.

    Joanne

  247. apollonian May 19, 2009 @ 7:31 am

    “Apollonian attempts to promote his brand, his version of the Christian Faith based on human limitations and weakness which is very prone to being affected by and influenced by unseen elemental spirits who are NOT affiliated with or concerned for the Divine Mission of Christ’s Church here on earth.” - Fr. Joseph, May 18, 2009 @ 1:29 pm

    * * * * *

    Dialectic: “Stav” Must Repent–And Send Much-Needed Funds To True Saints (Like Me And Bro. Kapner)
    (Apollonian, 19 May 09)

    As so often, problem is where/how to begin for this (or any) installment/round of dialectic. We need a common reference in order to make any sense–hence we need OBJECTIVE reference, and the whole problem then is “bearing witness to truth” in accord w. Christ, (Gsop. JOHN 18:37). Thus “truth” has NO MEANING–without that objective reality which must be necessary reference/criterion.

    Thus as human REASON IS MERELY METHOD, we ponder the sublimity of Christian message for MOTIVATION, which motivation is not necessarily provided merely by method of reason, but which is surely understandable thereto.

    So those who respect truth (hence Christ–JOHN 14:6) must respect OBJECTIVITY, for again, there is no truth WITHOUT objectivity, necessary criterion. Anyone who demands we accept mysticism is demanding we take their word founded upon–NOTHING.

    The worst enemies of God and man are mystics and subjectivists who indulge thereby in gross HUBRIS.

    Thus “Stav,” don’t doubt for a second I take seriously the nature and importance of proper dialectic with such un-Godly person as u–I am very careful to make sure NOT TO DIGNIFY ur mysticism and un-Godliness. For mysticism and subjectivity are basis, grounds, and premises FOR LIES, LYING, AND LIARS. U should take due note.

    Again, mysticism and subjectivism are mere setting-up for lies, lying, and liars.

    If u respect God and Christ, and thus us human creatures of God, u must respect our nature as rational beings who ONLY know and understand by means of God-given reason–for that’s our nature as God created us, how God meant for us to interact and treat one another and to know reality.

    There’s only one kind of knowledge which God expects of us, and that’s by means of method of reason–that’s all God demands of us, REASON.

    And “faith” is a buzz-word, unfortunately, which properly only means LOYALTY–that’s all. There is no other proper manner of mental functioning than REASON–that’s how God made us and meant for us to achieve knowledge. “Truth” making us “free” (JOHN 8:32) is that provided by means of REASON, PERIOD.

    And “Stav,” u lie about Talmudists who pretend to reason, as Talmudists are NOTORIOUS hysterics and obsessive, murdering psychopaths, infamous for their FANATICISM and insanity–though it is an infernally-inspired and very methodical (ritualistic) insanity–a very purposeful insanity, devilishly guided and manipulated by Judaic/Pharisaic masterminds and rabbis.

    For Jews make themselves God, insisting that God is SLAVE of Jews, that God is HOPELESSLY IN LOVE WITH JEWS, God not capable of resisting allure of these Jews, Jews considered collectively as a female entity which God pursues, again, like a slave to these infernal Jews. See RevisionistHistory.org, TruthTellers.org, and Come-and-hear.com for best Talmudic expo.

    For Jews are COLLECTIVISTS–whereas Greeks and Westerners are typically individualists as we’re taught our souls are judged individually, such individualism merely a minority view among Jews (as in book of Ezekiel, I understand).

    Thus on this corrupted earth, Jews rule and dominate, as presently–especially when the culture is in “Decline of the West,” by Oswald Spengler–for Jews are most sublimely and infernally ORGANIZED, again in accord w. their native COLLECTIVISM. And that’s why bolshevism is most natural to Jews, Jews typically dominating communist party and movement, etc.

    Thus our people, Christian and Western, need ORGANIZATION, inspiration (”epiphany”), and unity to overcome these infernal Judeo-conspirators, so subjectivistically-oriented and -inspired in accord w. lies, hubris, narcissism, and HYSTERIA, NOT REASON.

    Subjectivism is LYING–beginning especially with lying to oneself. Observe Fr. Joseph, above-quoted, talks about, “unseen elemental spirits,” etc., which he knows nothing about, which he only asserts and can NEVER prove–precisely because they’re “unseen.” For if they’re “unseen,” how does he know they’re there?

    And u, “Stav,” talk absurdly about “evil” (Pelagian heresy) which doesn’t exist in a rational world–as no one (according to Socrates) willingly does “evil” if and as he truly understands it as “evil”–it would be absurd. There is only insanity, that’s all. And indulging in mysticism and subjectivism is HUBRIS–which leads to such insanity.

    “Divine Mission of Christ’s Church” is simply TRUTH according to rational criterion of God-given reality, THAT’S ALL. The “Church” is simply the people, that’s all.

    The greatest give-away for HERETICS like u, “Stav,” is ur attempt to intimidate and terrorize people with ur PELAGIANISM (”guilt”)–for again, there is NO “GOOD-EVIL,” period–only insanity, especially of HUBRIS, which hubris u suffer grievously comrade “Stav,” u and ur fuddy-duddy cohort, Fr. Joseph. I’m determined to crush u (dialectically) and stomp u under-foot, u may be sure–and all by the grace of God and for the info and salvation of our fellow human beings.

    CONCLUSION: For again, REASON is only a METHOD, but it’s the only one God gives us. And Christ then provides us with “the way” to know, again by reason, that sublime MOTIVATION for true salvation of our souls. Thus do I deliver dialectic and truth to u, comrade “Stav,” the gross heretic. U must repent–and send me and Bro. Kapner much-needed funds. Honest elections and death to the Fed. Apollonian

  248. Fr. Joseph May 19, 2009 @ 9:23 am

    Dear Juan,

    It is on account of our incarnate spiritual nature per the Mind and Design of our God, Creator and FATHER in Heaven that we ARE all called to become “masters” over aspects of His Seen-Physical Creation. Hence, your 30 years worth of work, study and attention to those manifold number of things that are associated with and in the field of Electrical Engineering WERE-ARE of spiritual nature.

    No one can be a “disciple” of any sort of field of knowledge, understanding and wisdom UNLESS one has adopted a personal freely willed and freely chosen self-imposed DISCIPLINE with regardings to that subject/Subject.

    Hence, I’m quite certain that as you bring with you those same disciplines that have made you successful and competent as an Electrical Engineer to a conscious, focused and mindful consideration of the Church’s Apostolic Faith and its attending concern for the proper functions of and wellbeing for these Human Spirits granted to us by God our Father in Heaven, the Author of All Human Life, all of your endeavours in the seen and with the Unseen Realms will ALL become one continuous form of personal PRAYER.

    Gotta go for now, but I’ll share other stuff with you later.

    - Fr. Joseph

  249. KathJuliane May 19, 2009 @ 10:29 am

    Dear Joanne,

    Commencing about the 1700’s, the seeds of innovative new theologies in the West began to arise among denominations that deviated from apostolic doctrines and centuries of Church dogmas and tradition reinterpreting the Bible. Before then, in any of the traditional Churches of apostolic foundation there was no such thing expounded as an “unconditional covenant” of Abraham for the Jews, or a “two covenant” theology, no “premillenialism”, no “postmillennialism”, etc.

    Jesus Christ fulfilled the Old Covenant of Abraham. The New Covenant is Christ Himself. Without Christ the Jews have no “Covenant of Abraham”, only the Law of Moses, which cannot save. The only “unconditional” aspect was the promise of the future Savior for the world from Abraham’s loins which God bound only Himself to, and not Abraham in the cutting of the blood covenant, which was made even before Abraham was circumcised.

    “God’s word is to be taken seriously and literally for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter 1:21”.

    Agreed. And the Old Testament must be interpreted through the light of Christ in the New Testament, and not the other way around. Modern NT doctrines must be interpreted first of all through the words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Apostles themselves and how they knew, understood, and taught the Gospel in the very fullness of the Holy Spirit fresh from the day of Pentecost.

    The epistle to the Romans, along with Galatians, is a very complete foundational exposition of the basic doctrines of Christian Faith concerning Salvation, and must be understood in its both metaphysical and practical entirety from beginning to end, in its original contexts, and considering as well the historical circumstances it was written in.. Throughout Romans, Paul shifts from subject to subject so it is a fairly intricate epistle to work through, but in no way does Romans 9-11 “prophesy” a separate destiny for unrepentant Jews other than they will remain cut off from God, unless they come to Christ.

    Paul, and certainly the rest of the Apostles, very clearly understood that Israel had been cut off from God by their rejection of Christ 2000 years ago.

    The Epistle to the Romans was in response to a very important crisis in faith for uncircumcised Pagans, who did not even believe in Yaweh of Israel before their conversion. Because of the phenomenal unbelief of the Judeans themselves, the convert Pagan believers were doubting God’s faithfulness to His own promises or His capacity to fulfill them and thus call into question God Himself, that Paul is compelled at precisely this point in the letter to deal at length with the paradox of massive, hard-hearted unbelief of Israel.

    Beginning at 9:1, Paul has a very strong word for any who accused him of failing to love his rebellious and apostate tribal kinsmen. As a Benjaminite, he refers elsewhere to himself also as an Israelite, and he says the massive unbelief in Jesus, their own Messiah, by his “countrymen in the flesh” despite all of God’s blessings favoring them to be the nation that would bring forth the Messiah, causes him “great sorrow and continual grief” in his heart.

    9:4: Israel under the Old Covenant had the adoption by God as the “chosen people” that would bring forth Jesus the Christ to the world, “the glory [Paul would have meant the Shekinah—the glorious presence of God” which was visible in the pillar of fire and smoke in the wilderness, present in the Tabernacle, and the first Temple], the covenants, the “giving of the law”, Scripture, the liturgy of God in the Temple, the promises; “of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.”

    Paul writes from the comprehensive view of Israel’s history in the divine economy was preparing a fleshly people into a spiritual people ready to meet the Lord Incarnate, their Messiah, the promised Son of Abraham through Isaac (the son of promise by miraculous conception), Jacob, Judah and David—who was to be the light of revelation to the “70 Nations” and the glory of His people Israel. That the Messiah was for all mankind and not Israel only is a great honor and advantage which one would not have expected Israel to ignore.

    The incredible, mystifying phenomenal paradox of Jewish unbelief, which still holds true today, is understood in part by Paul’s description of a two-fold Israel: one spiritual, the other physical.

    In 8:28, 29 Paul deals with the teaching that for those who love God, all things work together for the good, God foreknows all things, but he does not predetermine all, for God is free and man is free. God freely offers salvation to all, and man freely responds to it or not. All are called to His purpose, but all do not respond. Those who refuse to love God are not forced to change; God compels no one. “God does not will evil to be done, nor does He force virtue” (St. John of Damascus). Those who do respond to the call are the elect.

    Based on His foreknowledge, God assures or “predestines” that those who choose to love and obey Him will be fulfilled, being conformed to the image of His Son. The model for the creation of man is the Son incarnate, and the eternal goal of man is conformity to the incarnate Son. Thus, everything the Only Begotten Son is by nature we become by the grace of the Incarnation. In relation to the Father, the Son is the Only begotten, but in relation to us He is the firstborn of many brethren.

    Israel was predestined, and when the time came, not all, or even many, of Israel responded to the call of their own kinsman Messiah.

    God therefore is faithful to all Israel, but the issue is, who is a true child of Abraham?

  250. Fr. Joseph May 19, 2009 @ 10:44 am

    Dear Juan,

    This anti-spam wiped out my most recent post. It was a ‘good’ one (grin). Oh well.
    Let me try to be as brief as possible then.

    Undoubtedly, you and all other engineers and scientists throughout the world are thoroughly familiar with those electrical engineers who discovered the ‘Background Noise’ of the remnants of the ‘Big Bang’ via that Bell and Howell radio telescope gizmo many decadas ago. And that discovery entirely CHANGED the inner workings in the minds of scientists and associated engineers all over our contemporary World.

    In the religious-spiritual-theological Realm of Knowledge, there yet remains a very SPIRITUAL ‘Big Bang’ which no material or scientific instrumentation can detect.

    From Sacred Scripture, we learn that God THE HOLY SPIRIT “hovered” over the primordial chaos of no-thing-ness.

    In other words, the Holy Spirit of God Himself was there to initiate and oversee the entirely MATERIAL/PHYSICAL ‘Big Bang’ which resulting in our witnessing the evidence of His Creative Act via His Seen Creation.

    Now then, the entire PURPOSE for God sending us His Divine Son to be our REDEEMER was to make it possible for that same HOLY SPIRIT Who presided over the universe’s material-physical ‘Big Bang’ to be made available to the Human Race.

    - Fr. Joseph

  251. Fr. Joseph May 19, 2009 @ 10:51 am

    Dear Juan,

    So IF the entire Human Race somehow was allowed to gain access to the proper “frequency” of the Spiritual ‘Background Noise’ of God the Holy Spirit, the entire Human Race would then be simultaneously CONFIRMED in the Divine Vision of what our God and Father DESIRES for the entire Human Race - which is the REDEMPTION of our Human Race!

    The Human Race, in ‘Adam and Eve’, would therefore REGAIN what was lost in the Original Fall from Divine Grace via Mankind’s Orginal Sin!

    This ‘Second Pentecost’ for the ENTIRE Human Race would have to INCLUDE the Mother of God Incarante Himself. After all, it was God Himself Who said that He would make enemies of THE WOMAN and THE foreign-alien in nature SERPENT that deceived Mankind to abandon the All-good Divine Intentions and Blessings of an All-good Creator and God and Father in Heaven in the Adamic Covenant of Genesis 3:15.

    - Fr. Joseph

  252. Fr. Joseph May 19, 2009 @ 10:58 am

    Dear Juan,

    So THE WOMAN God Himself commissioned to be His Instrument by which Satan’s HEAD would be CRUSHED once and for all makes her Message and Instruction KNOWN the human public of our World and to the Bishops of His Church in Fatima, Portugal back in 1917 A.D.

    She asked for a public and solemn Collegial Consecration per HER explicit desires and Divinely Maternal Instructions. It was (and STILL IS) her Intention to bring about WORLD PEACE to the entire Human Race via a global, world-wide-this-time SECOND PENTECOST.

    But everybody and their brother has their own PERSONAL pet-peeve reason(s) as to why that Second Pentecost over all of Mankind MUST NOT occur!

    The Prelates and the Hiearchy and the Patriarchs and the Metropolitans and the Theologicans from EVERY CHURCH BODY throughout this World are going to have to do some serious, VERY SERIOUS ‘Explaining’ to the Savior, the REDEEMER of All Mankind why they were so OBSTINATE in refusing to listen to the MOTHER OF THE CHURCH here on earth!

    - Fr. Joseph

  253. KathJuliane May 19, 2009 @ 11:06 am

    God therefore is faithful to all Israel, but the issue is, who is a true child of Abraham?

    This is the crucial shift in doctrinal perspective commencing at 9, but is continuous with the last part of Romans 8 as summarized above about God’s faithfulness to Israel, despite their paradoxical rebellion against God. Paul is not at all dealing with the earthly aspects of the covenant of Abraham. Even in the Law of Moses, Israel would be cut-off from the “promised land” if they failed to hear and obey the future “Prophet like Moses”.

    At 9:6: “But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect (failed). For they are not Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but “In Isaac thy Seed shall be called”. That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are NOT the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.”

    All through Scripture God warns that in certain cases of rebellion and disobedience a person may be “cut off from among his people”. That the notion was accepted by Paul’s contemporary Jews is inferred from the fact that in the Mishna the well-known statement, “All Israel has a place in the world to come (Sanhedrin 10:1) is immediately followed by a list of Israelites who have no place in the world to come.

    In Galatians 3:15-18 Paul explains that the Jews were blinded by the multitude of the details of their law, and failed to see that their sonship was founded on God’s promises (the covenant) made to Abraham (v16). Since a covenant that was confirmed (v17) cannot be added to, changed, or annulled, the covenant law, which comes later (v17), cannot alter the covenant’s promise (v.15). The Jews thought they were sons of Abraham (seeds) through physical genealogy. They overlooked the fact that promised Seed (v 16) is singular, referring to Jesus Christ.
    .
    Then Paul illustrates in step by step fashion the principle idea of “not Israel who are of Israel”using dichotomous parallels. Not a natural or biological offspring of Abraham, for if this were the case the children of Hagar and of Keturah would also be Israelites. Further not all those in Isaac’s line are Israelites, in that he had two sons, Jacob, the father of the tribes of Israel, and Esau.

    From the OT point of view, Israel became the adopted special nation of God by the Covenant Law of Moses, a conditional suzerain covenant between the overlord and vassal at Sinai. The “seventy nations” were the kingdoms of the pagan world surrounding the land of Israel, a metaphor drawn from the division of nations after the Tower of Babel. At Mt. Sinai and the sin of the Golden Calf, some idolatrous Israelites perished while others survived by God’s inscrutable mercy explained to no one. God is not a capricious tyrant, but His will is unquestionable. For the bases of salvation is God’s mercy and compassion (v 15), not human free will or faith or works. Though man must freely accept God’s grace and righteousness, God knows who will do this.

    Paul is no longer writing as “a Jew”, but a Christian and a natural Israelite with a profound understanding of Israel’s destiny and fulfillment by Christ, defends God’s name, holiness and reputation as the God of Israel in the face of Israel’s apostasy.

    From the Paul’s perspective in the light of Christ, Israel is earthly Israel that rejected Christ and the New Covenant, by rejecting the Son of God therefore rejected God as well. The Israel of God is the elect or remnant faithful of Israel who accepted Christ Jesus as the New Covenant reborn from above through baptism and chrismation of the Holy Spirit, the very same requirements for the Pagans becoming adopted sons of Christ in the Spirit “where there is neither Pagan or Jew”.

    This remnant faithful of Israel—Ecclesia, or “assembly of the called out ones of national Israel) came into the New Covenant of Christ by baptism and spiritual rebirth through the Holy Spirit.

    It is this baptized remnant of Israel that is the ~holy root~ of the Israel of God, founded on the faith of the Apostles, and not apostate anti-Christ Israel (“the Jews”) in general.

  254. Stav May 19, 2009 @ 12:00 pm

    Hey Appolonian,

    I respect that you responded. BUT, as with your previous “responses” that’s all they are. Except for one exception, you did not actually gave me any arguments in your latest post, which somehow attempt to refute my reasonable arguments.

    >>I’m determined to crush u (dialectically) and stomp u under-foot,

    I hope you give it a good try, but how can anyone determine the point that I am finally crushed, in an objective way? Perhaps we should settle with a subjective view on who’s won in the end, perhaps my or your opinion? Is that subjective enough for you?

    Your premise this “round” of dialogue, is that you are not even going to teach me anything, you are simply going to “crush” me. This implies, that according to you, I am beyond any reformation, and thus as already is shown in your latest response, I predict, that you will simply NOT respond in a relevant way to my arguments.

    On the other hand, if your only interest if for you to crush me, then you could be thinking of me as your enemy. Or, finally, you may be actually capable of reforming me to your ideals and ideas, but you don;t care to do so, because you really do not care about me.

    Nevertheless, your attitude, given your intention to “crush me”, indicated high levels of subjectivity in your thinking, or at least, your writing.

    Your tactic is to characterize me in various ways, as a heretic, and un-Godly, as whatever else may please your over-inflated ego, in order to hopefully elicit some kind of emotional response. Be advised, that I can be very rational and I will ignore your subjective characterizations.

    That tactic I mention above, is NOT dialogue, it is an emotional and completely fruitless activity, as you are:

    1) Not going to affect me emotionally, as I am treating this discussion rationally.
    2) Not going to convince anyone else, as they can all see that you actually never respond to anyone else s arguments, but simply always fall back to your original message.

    May I remind you that the above described behavior is not rational, which is something that you claim to be.

    I am not going to stop (unless you decide to stop responding to me) to ask you the same logical questions unless I get an ethically intended answer to these arguments. That means an answer other than unfounded name calling and changing the subject while ignoring my original arguments.

    So here it goes, I am just including a couple of my quite numerous previously unanswered things:

    I said in my previous post:

    One must accept some sub-set of Christianity as mystical. It would be foolish to claim that it is all completely rational. Thus, as you claim, if you reject all mysticism and subjective things, you are also rejecting some important parts of Christianity.

    You did not respond to that.

    I also gave you an example:

    How does a “rationalist christian” deal with the completely mystically obtained Apocalypse?

    You did not answer to that.

    You said:

    >>So those who respect truth (hence Christ–JOHN 14:6) must respect OBJECTIVITY, for again, there is no truth WITHOUT objectivity, necessary criterion.

    I ABSOLUTELY agree with this.

    You also said:

    >>Anyone who demands we accept mysticism is demanding we take their word founded upon–NOTHING.

    Actually, the method of reason, which you claim to use at all times, dictates, that mysticism is not actually “nothing”, but rather it is “something”. It is information and/or experiences not collectively experienced that may or may not be true. This does not mean that they are nothing, but rather, something that has to be dealt with carefully.

    Your say:

    >>Thus “Stav,” don’t doubt for a second I take seriously the nature and importance of proper dialectic…

    Actually, please let me doubt your intent to be dialectic, until I actually see you BE dialectic. Merely stating that that’s what you want to be is not enough to convince me, given your track record.

    You said:
    >>… with such un-Godly person as u–I am very careful to make sure NOT TO DIGNIFY ur mysticism and un-Godliness.

    Again, simply because you say I am unGodly, it does not make it so, but feel free to think what you want about me. As far as I am concerned, you are free to think I am a pumpkin or any other vegetable. And you are free to tell me about it too. Lucky for me, I know what I am and for the interested parties, I can defend my self to that, if I deem it necessary.

    Let me turn that back to you, I actually am beginning to see how you are the un-Godly one and proven before, and more over, now I see that you are actually the one filled with self-destructive irrationality. The bad news, is that you are trying to propagate your ill-logic to others.

    It is sad to see, and I mean this in the best possible way, as I can see that you have many of the facts of the matter at hand (Zionism, Talmudists, etc. etc.) very very right. You have just taken the pendulum ride a bit to far, to the other side.

    Remember, it was you who accused me of using emotional tactics against you, but what about your unfounded claims against me? It is obvious that you are trying the same thing on me, by putting names on me repeatedly without providing any basis for your claims of what I am, according to you.

    You said:
    >>For mysticism and subjectivity are basis, grounds, and premises FOR LIES, LYING, AND LIARS. U should take due note.

    You are the one who should take due note, that mysticism, is the basis for the Christian faith. See my arguments about this, in this and previous posts, to which you repeatedly will not respond. Christ came, acted and returned to His Father, in primarily mystical ways. Or are you going to claim that you rationally understand the foreknowledge of His miraculous birth, and resurrection?

    If fact, when you dismiss mystical experiences, does this mean that you dismiss ALL the prophets, ALL miracles (no matter when or where they happened), ALL hunches, ALL leaps of faith etc.? And what about prayer, is that not a mystical experience? Do you actually pray ever? If you do, don’t you think that it’s a bit hypocritical to dismiss subjectivity and the mystical?

    You said:
    >>If u respect God and Christ, and thus us human creatures of God, u must respect our nature as rational beings who ONLY know and understand by means of God-given reason–for that’s our nature as God created us, how God meant for us to interact and treat one another and to know reality.

    I will agree with you that reason is a gift from God and must be our primary and day to day method for understanding. It should be used to tell truth from lies, it should be used to come to conclusions and yes I do agree with you very much on that. However, when you are referring to reality, how do you define it?

    You said:
    >>And “Stav,” u lie about Talmudists who pretend to reason, as Talmudists are NOTORIOUS hysterics and obsessive, murdering psychopaths…

    Yes, off course, I agree. My point was to say that they are perfectly capable of rational thought, when it suits their purposes. Talmudists are in many cases totally hysterical, obsessed etc. etc. exactly as you say. But, you imply that it is impossible to be hysterical about reasonably arrived at conclusions. Based on pure logic processes, that is in fact wrong. The reason is, that as you claimed earlier, Reason is a Method. I agree. But, this method uses subject matter to manipulate in order to produce understanding. If this subject matter (which in the case of reason is simply DATA, information) is wrong to start with, then the method of reason will get you the wrong results!

    Since you are constantly mentioning Reason and also call it a method, I am assuming that you know the basic rules and of how reasonable thinking works. For example, i assume that you know that the method of logical deduction MUST be supplied with data for it to “crunch”. And so on. Just be the definition of this last point, any starter student in philosophy can tell you, that reason is NOT enough to arrive at a correct conclusion. This is because:

    1) The reasoning process has to be designed, to deal with the particular, PURPOSE in mind. It is all nice to talk about reason as the one, automatic solution and way to understanding, but, reason is but a generic word, much like mathematics. If you do not know how to form or use a theorem, or how to apply it to solve a problem then IT IS OF NO HELP TO YOU.

    2) Even after point 1, above, you finally get a logical process of reasoning that is capable of dealing with your problem, you may STILL GET WRONG RESULTS, if your given information or premises are wrong, faulty, or lacking or present some kind of other anomaly.

    As an experienced software developer, I know quite a bit about that. This is also you have intrigued me so much, with your claim that RATIONALISM is somehow automatically going to grant us understanding. A computer program MUST, I REPEAT, MUST be completely rational, in order for it to work. But if the input data, is wrong in some way, it may STILL not work properly for the intended reason. i.e. it will still deliver wrong results, regardless of the method of processing which is PURE and correct REASON.

    Further with the computer program analogue, I have to say that in spite of your disgust at my writings here, I feel that I do understand your core idea/message. You are saying (by using the computer analogue) that if the data is subjective, then the program is guaranteed not to work. Right? Yes I am right.

    In fact, however there is a fault to your logic. SUBJECTIVE does not mean wrong or false or a lie. Not by definition. It means that it is not objective. Not objective means that it is STILL information, but it is simply not tested. What it is definitely not, is nothing. It is something.

    Example: If I saw somebody get involved in an accident, but I only got a very quick glace of them, in such a way that I was not sure, then you could call this information subjective. But, his does not mean that it is useless information. ALL IT MEANS, IS THAT SUBJECTIVE INFORMATION MUST BE TESTED AND VERIFIED. IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT MUST BE REJECTED OUTRIGHT.

    1 John, 4:1 :
    Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

    So are there then subjective things such as spirits according to the Christian Faith? Yes there are, BUT they must be TRIED.

    Back to the software analogue. A program must sanitize, parse or filter bad data in order to assure its proper operation. Once the data is determined (by some rational process) to be useless, it is then rejected. NOT HOWEVER BEFORE IT HAS GONE THROUGH SCRUTINY. Also, the important thing to note here, is that the VALUABLE (and previously subjective)data is retained and integrated into the purpose of the software.

    And that my friend is a logical and reasonable and rational way to deal with Information that is questionable and or subjective.

    It is simply put, ineffective and stupid to reject it outright, because of a premise, which by the way has no rational basis.

    You say:
    For Jews make themselves God, insisting that God is SLAVE of Jews, that God is HOPELESSLY IN LOVE WITH JEWS,

    I ABSOLUTELY AGREE. I know the talmud and have read in places in it things that exactly describe what you write above. I make sure to tell any and everyone I meet in my path.

    >>Thus our people, Christian and Western, need ORGANIZATION, inspiration (”epiphany”)

    Hang on a second here. What are you saying?
    Are you saying that INSPIRATION is needed?
    You also mention the Greek work, epiphany. Epi-Phany means something that comes to you from above. Inspiration means something in “spirited in us” if I got that right?

    What that statement above, you are dangerously close to saying SUBJECTIVE KNODLEGE IS REQUIRED TO SUCCEED! In fact, that Is really what you are saying! Because what if your best candidate for joining your way of thinking came to you and said to you that they had an epiphany and that they are now inspired? Is that not completely and totally subjective? How can you prove that they are in fact inspired?

    I’ll tell you how, by looking at the fruit of their actions. It is the final result that matters in this case, and I say that not in the sense that the goal justifies the means, but in the sense that what comes in, must be filtered , checked and weighed and only then incorporated into our plans.

    As I said earlier, it is INTENTION that matters, most of all.

    You said:
    And that’s why bolshevism is most natural to Jews, Jews typically dominating communist party and movement, etc.

    I absolutely agree and again I tell this to anybody and everybody I meet.

    You say:
    Subjectivism is LYING–beginning especially with lying to oneself.

    I have proven to you, that subjectivism is not by definition lying. It could be false or true. It is just that subjectivism defies standard and obvious methods of finding out what of the two it is.

    You say:
    >>And u, “Stav,” talk absurdly about “evil” (Pelagian heresy) which doesn’t exist in a rational world–as no one (according to Socrates) willingly does “evil” if and as he truly understands it as “evil”–it would be absurd.

    Actually, you are quite insulting, in your ways, tone, name calling etc. but I don’t mind. But please do not say that I am absurd. I am VERY familiar with the Socratic view about this. But this is exactly it, we humans have ONLY subjective knowledge, we cannot possibly know if what we are doing is objectively evil.

    But wait, there is the subjective measure of the conscience. Do you listen to your conscience appolonian, or do you consider it to be too subjective? How would you explain what YOUR CONSCIENCE tells you, to me? And why should I accept it, given your ill defined concept of subjectivism?

    No, I think of evil as the conscious avoidance to do Good. One may be doing NOTHING and still be evil. In Orthodoxy, we do not give substance to pure evil. It is the absence of Good. Persons are real, but evil is not. It is just a lack of light. At least, that is how I see it.

    You Say:
    >>There is only insanity, that’s all. And indulging in mysticism and subjectivism is HUBRIS–which leads to such insanity.

    Can you please tell me how you define insanity? That terms seems a bit “subjective” to me.

    You say:
    >>The “Church” is simply the people, that’s all.

    Well, here we go again, your atheist streak has to come out once in a while. The Church is the Body of Christ. The head of the Church is Jesus Christ. To say that the Church is simply the people, makes you at least a blatant heretic or at most an atheists.

    You say:
    >>The greatest give-away for HERETICS like u, “Stav,” is ur attempt to intimidate and terrorize people with ur PELAGIANISM (”guilt”)

    It seems to me, if you are terrorized, I must apologize. But your extreme over-bloated ego, and your rigidly set ideas, are a sure way to prevent you from being terrorized, over the internet medium, that is.

    On a more serious note, I find it insulting that you of all people in this message board, who frequently verbally terrorizes anybody and everybody whom YOU DEEM to be un-godly or simply irrational, to accuse me of the same thing and, at the same time call me a heretic for it.

    And please, one warm request. Do not tell me to give you money. I actually think you are the Heretic and irrational and by the way, because of that, your worthy core goal, is not going to be supported by your efforts. So that is the reason why I will not going to support you financially for as long as you stay a Heretic and an Irrational trying to pass as rational.

    Rest assured however that I do support others that I see as good, true and rational people, and how much I give and where is NONE of your business.

    Clean up your act, become truly rational, logical, accept constructive, honest in Christ and in Brotherly love, bidirectional dialog without name calling and unsupported claims and I would definitely consider supporting you too. But something tells me that’s not going to happen.

    Stav

  255. KathJuliane May 19, 2009 @ 12:13 pm

    Dear Joanne,

    In Romans 9-11, Paul the zealous and great defender of God’s name, honor, and reputation, then addresses the paradoxical question and Israel’s “mystery of iniquity” in this decisive period in the history of Salvation, and partially answers why were most Jews unresponsive or opposed to the gospel while Pagans were becoming the majority in the young Church.

    “Has God been fair to natural Israel?” Paul’s conclusion is yes: He has been faithful to natural Israel, and through His faithfulness to Israel for the sake of their (and our) fathers Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses, through Jesus Christ, God is faithful to the Nations as well who were included in the Covenant of Abraham as future heirs of the Promised Seed.

    God’s unchanging faithfulness to Israel for over 2,000 years (at the time of Paul’s writing, and still a timeless truth now, He is still unchangingly faithful to them, but “the Jews” are satanically hardened in their apostacy and rebellion against Him) is seen in several ways.

    1)Through Paul. God miraculously saved the Jewish zealot Saul, who later, as the Apostle, confesses, “I am indeed a Judean (an Israelite, as are Jesus Christ and the Apostles in general)”. The faithfulness of God to old Israel and to the Nations is witnessed “in the Holy Spirit”, through Paul, who is even willing to be “accursed from Christ” (like Moses did) if by that Israel could somehow be saved.

    2) Through Providence. God the Father shows His sovereign care for Israel first in history (“the Jew first”) and then next in historical time to the Nations, through bestowing on them also His adoption, glory, covenants, law, service (Gr. latreia—a reference to proper worship) and promises. The Gospel itself came to Israel (the Jew first) in historical time, then to the Nations of the world as the Gospel spread.

    “Salvation is of “the Jews”? No. Properly, what our Lord said was “Salvation is of Ioudaios”—“Judeans”, i.e. belonging to Jehudah, in the sense of a country; “of Judea”. St. Athanasius said “The commonwealth of Israel was the school of knowledge of God for all the nations”. God’s universal gift of salvation arose within the context of His promises to Israel, the land, and their religious tradition, the Law, Prophets and Temple. The Messiah was prophesied in the Scriptures of temple Judaism, the Incarnation took place in Bethlehem of the tetrachial Kingdom of Judea.

    3) Through the Patriarchs. God has been faithful to Israel and thus to the Nations through His servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. As Isaac’s birth came by the promise of God (vv. 6-9), so does the new birth come for Christians. For just as it was possible to be in the nation of Israel, but not truly a child of God without “circumcised heart”, so being born into a Christian home, church or culture does not de facto guarantee our faithfulness. We must, like Isaac, be born of God’s promise. For the Christian this new birth comes from the watery womb of baptism, the circumcision of the heart, with the injunction that we grow to serve the Lord with all our heart, mind and strength.

    4)Through the Prophets. Beginning with Moses (v. 15), and including Hosea and Isaiah, the Prophets reveal God’s faithfulness in His sovereign mercy, justice and election of His faithful—Israel and Nations alike. At Mt. Sinai, some idolatrous, unfaithful Israelites perished while others survived. The “potter” has “power over the clay”, therefore an objector to God’s sovereignty has no complaint, any more than clay can question the potter.

    This cuts both ways. The Jews cannot complain or object about their loss of “choseness” because they were “chosen” for no absolutely no merit of their own except that it was God’s sovereign choice to do so “that He might makes known the riches of His glory on the “vessels of mercy” (v. 23), the believing remnant of Israel and Pagans of the early Church to whom God is revealing the “riches of His Shekinah” in Christ. God is faithful to Israel as He is to Pagans. But we also see that to benefit from His faithfulness to us, we must be faithful to Him.

    In 9:22-24 Paul applies his teaching on God’s freewill to his contemporary situation prior to God’s complete desolation of Jerusalem to come in 70 CE. “The vessels of wrath” is unbelieving national Israel both in Judea and the Dispersion to whom God is showing longsuffering by not destroying them completely as a people.

    In Judea God extended a forty-year period of probation after the Crucifixion, during which the Jerusalem Apostles and the Bishops, like James the Just, intensively preached to the unrepentant Jews throughout Judea and Palestine, the Dispersion, and at Jerusalem at the Temple. Supernatural signs were regularly occuring; clear warnings signs and omens during temple liturgies and on the annual Day of Atonement Temple the Apostles and disciples continued in the Holy Spirit to work miracles, despite persecutions of the Christian communities by the Jews.

    The more astute leaders and high priests at Jerusalem clearly understood that from the signs and events going on around them, experienced in real time, that God had decreed the destruction of the Temple, and that the time was drawing ever closer for this. The Talmud records that on each Day of Atonement for forty years, the high priestly signs concerning the sacrificial goats for national Israel came back “unforgiven”.

    Josephus believed that God destroyed the Temple and Jerusalem to avenge the Sanhedrin’s judicial murder of James the Just in about 64 CE, who spent all of his time praying and preaching in the Temple on his knees, begging God to have mercy on Jerusalem like Stephen did, and James was thrown from the pinnacle of the temple complex. Surviving the fall of 400 feet, the masses then stoned Blessed James, who all through this continued to pray, until someone finally killed him by bashing his head with a fuller’s brush.

  256. Jonah May 19, 2009 @ 12:24 pm

    Yes, the Jewish State is on the chopping block. The Death of the State of Israel is a necessity for the SIGN (the complete covenant) to be implemented in the Holy Land.

    Jonas the Prophet
    Colorado USA
    http://jonastheprophet.tk

  257. Lynda May 19, 2009 @ 1:23 pm

    Apollonian, if you want to gain a rational understanding of apollonian / dionysian polarities in dialectic - then read Nietzsche.

    Christ ‘the rationalist’ can not help you there.

    The real Christ (”I am the way, the truth and life” John 14:6) could help you - he states flately that the Tradition of the Elders (Talmudic law and pilpul) is the Lie.

    But if you want to understand objectively how this stuff will screw your head around and stick it down the crapper - read Nietzsche.

    Talking about matters academic and xtremely bored over at the Hillel House, isn’t it a bit late in Spring Term for you to be spending so much time on the RZN weblog.

    Haven’t you got exams to study for?

    I realize that in your mindwarp it is more inportant to get the hatebait and JewSpew against the Jews onto this weblog and into the Christian conversations unfolding here.
    You want to smear this blog as a hate site. Unfortunately, for you, this is an evidence based site, the tone of the conversation is termperate, people have to give reasons and evidence for they say. Obviously the Jews can’t have that. So you have to log on with your stuff.

    But U R starting to get off on this shrek - g_d’s sexual pursuit of the Jews and all the allure of those badass Jews, along with all your hate bait and accusations.

    In a matter of days you have gone from being a nuisance blogger to a mindfucker.

    This brings me back to Nietzsche. Believe me, philosophy as well as Christianity can help people with these kinds of sociopathologies. The Jews, regettably, will be the last to realize that they (meaning you as a Jew) have a problem in this area.

    I am asking you to put the hatebait and JewSpew over at blog like FrumSatire. They will all get it over there and you’ll have a great time.

  258. jgalindes May 19, 2009 @ 2:27 pm

    Dear Lynda
    Dear Stav,

    please take some time to analyse these links.

    These two guys (or may be just one) are dangerous.

    http://worldpeace-phaedrus.blogspot.com/2008/09/word-to-wise.html

    http://spiritwaterblood.com/2008/10/to-grope-for-him-and-find-him/

    http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/charity_and_the_savage/

  259. jgalindes May 19, 2009 @ 2:31 pm

    continuation

    http://thecaucasianliteraryreview.blogspot.com/2009/04/finally-stranger.html

    http://pcapostate2.wordpress.com/2008/05/02/jew-vs-aryan-art/

    http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/jews_news_for_blues/

  260. jgalindes May 19, 2009 @ 2:31 pm

    continuation

    http://worldpeace-phaedrus.blogspot.com/2008/08/message-for-curt-maynard.html

    http://worldpeace-phaedrus.blogspot.com/2008/08/message-for-curt-maynard.html

    http://spiritwaterblood.com/2008/10/martin-luther-from-the-grave-condemns-our-wicked-generation/

  261. jgalindes May 19, 2009 @ 2:32 pm

    continuation

    http://www.haloscan.com/comments/halturner/DiscussionNov23/

    http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/?p=2522

    http://www.haloscan.com/comments/halturner/JohnHageeJesusNotMessiah/

  262. jgalindes May 19, 2009 @ 2:38 pm

    Sorry so many messages, anti-spam did not allow just one big message, forced to split.

    These guys are in almost all white supremacist-racist-segregationist websites, always disturbing and irritating.

    There is a pattern, will not be difficult to you to discover.

    Apollonious is dangerous because he incites the physical destruction of the Jewish people,an abomination as least for me.

    Please understand that there are people with resources behind these guys.

    Juan

  263. Michael K. May 19, 2009 @ 3:10 pm

    Dear Apollonian,

    Your faith in your own reasoning and objectivity rises to the level of mysticism, given how subjectively and obliquely you respond to direct questions and genuine dialogue.

    Clearly, you haven’t got the maturity yet to see how the worldview you represent is not served by your rhetoric, but actually diminished by it. But that’s O.K.

    Curt Maynard, a racialist and a forthright one at that, found your particular style of eloquence offensive. So clearly this problem you have communicating in an effective manner is not predicated on whether the others’ views are close to your own or not. Actually, Mr. Maynard called you ” the biggest troll on the internet,” and warned everyone to watch out for you.

    I’m not impressed, and pretty soon you’re going to end up on your electronic ear outside that invisible ‘mystical’ door when Br. Nathanael gets back. So you better get genuinely responsive and respectful before then, I think. Because he has little tolerance for heretical views, and still less for rudeness.

    A mind is a terrible thing to waste, indeed.

  264. KathJuliane May 19, 2009 @ 3:36 pm

    All of this occurred in a period of about four months when Judea had no Roman military governor, the old corrupt consul had been removed, and the replacement had not yet arrived in Palestine. During this period under the rule of the High Priest Ananius and the Great Sanhedrin, about 2,000 more believers of the Jerusalem church throughout Palestine, as lawless zealot robber bands and false messiah riots scourged the countryside.

    Of course, the story of all this is “not in Scripture” but recorded elsewhere in history, like Josephus, and in the martyrologies of Holy Tradition of the Church.

    In 9:23, the vessels of mercy (v. 23) are the believing remnant of Israel and Pagans of the early Church to whom God is revealing the riches of His glory in Christ, like James the Just. The implied conclusion: the paradox of the unbelief of the majority of Israel, and the belief of the remnant faithful of Israel and many of the Nations adopted through baptism and “circumcision of the heart” into Christ Jesus as heirs of His promise into the new royal household of the Lord—the Israel of God, is all according to God’s will.

    The OT prophets had long foreseen God’s sovereignty and man’s salvation in several ways: 1) He makes the outcasts, the Pagans in the darkened Gentile world, His people and sons (9: 25,26); 2) He saves only a small portion of Israel, a remnant (vv. 27, 28); and 3) He does not utterly destroy unbelieving Israel because of the faithful remnant (29). Receiving God’s mercy or rejecting it is not complicated, but simple or short (v 28): either we have faith in Christ or we do not.

    In 9:30-33 The first answer to the paradox of Jewish unbelief is from God’s standpoint: His sovereign will (vv. 6-29), which was, as spoken by the Law of Moses and the Prophets, and still is, to extend the opportunity for salvation to the Nations, regardless of what apostate Israel thinks about it.

    God is “no respector of persons”, that is plays no favorites with any one, and while He is faithful to His great promise of Salvation and His promises to preserve faithful people as nations in the world from eternal death, nowhere in the Holy Scripture has God ever guaranteed to preserve their particular political states in this world. Blessings upon a political nation-state, and the preservation of state itself, are conditional upon faithfulness to Him, which God bestows or withholds according to His sovereign will.

    The desolation of Jerusalem and the destruction of Judea is an example of that.

    The second answer to the paradox is from humanity’s standpoint (9:30—10:21): FAITH. For “the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith” (1:17), equally for Israel and the Nations. The Nations, who had been unconcerned about righteousness, now attain it by their faith in Christ. God mercifully overlooks their former unrighteouness practiced in ignorance (Acts 17:30).

    By contrast the Jews fail to attain even the righteousness of the law, for they do not pursue the law by faith (v. 32) but by “works of the law”, ie. Pharseeism, legalism, Talmudism, and the reliance on the oral “traditions of men”, which made the written Law of Moses of none effect. Seeing only the letter of the law, not its spirit, they miss the Messiah in their own law by trying to keep the commandments and numerous rabbinic precepts apart from Him. They substitute what was “shadow” (Col. 2:16, 17; Heb. 10:1) for substance. Jesus Christ becomes their stumbling block (v. 32).

    Moses in Deuteronomy 10:12 chastises Israel: “And now, Israel, what does the Lord thy God require of thee, but to fear the Lord thy God, and to walk in all His ways, and to love Him, and to serve the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul; to keep the commandments of the Lord thy God, and his ordinances, all that I charge thee today, that it may be well with thee?”…”Therefore ye shall circumcise the hardness of your heart, and ye shall not harden your neck. For the Lord your God, He is the God of gods, and the Lord of lords, the great, and strong, and terrible God, who does not wonder at or admire a face, (no respecter of persons) nor will by any means will He accept a bribe: executing judgment for the stranger and orphan and widow, and He loves the stranger to give him food and raiment. And ye shall love the stranger; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.”

  265. KathJuliane May 19, 2009 @ 3:52 pm

    In Romans 10:1-3, Paul wishes nothing but good for the people of Israel. He prays for their salvation and knows of their zeal for God (v. 2), just as in the liturgies of the Church through the ages have prayed for the unrepentant and unbelieving Israel. But their zeal is without insight into God’s righteousness (v 3) in Christ. By rejecting the gospel and adhering to the law, they seek to establish their own righteousness. Their ignorance of God’s righteousness, a rejection of Christ Himself, is willful and self-imposed, as it was then and down through the ages for 2,000 years.

    10:4 Christ has always been the way of salvation in both Testaments in His pre-incarnate manifestations, and then His incarnate one. The OT righteous dead of Israel awaiting in Sheol before the crucifixion looked forward in great faith—profound trust—in God’s unchanging faithfulness to His promise of Savior-Redeemer to release them from the dark captivity of Adam’s original sin, looking forward to “the great Day of the Lord” in His first coming as the Messiah of Israel..

    As time progressed through the OT era, more and more prophecies unfolded to keep the people of Israel faithful to their divinely appointed task of being the “chosen people” to bring forth the Divine Messiah for the salvation of the world, as well as prophetic ways and signifiers to know the Messiah in His future incarnation within the nation of Israel.

    Christ puts an end to the law as the way for people to try to gain righteousness without Him. (v5). Thus He terminated, made complete, the Old Covenant of Abraham as the promised Seed Incarnate, without nullifying its law as useless. For Jesus fulfills the law; His righteousness is superior to that of the law. Everyone who believes in Christ participates in His incomparable righteousness.

    10:5-13 deals with the way of the law and the way of faith (v6) are contrasted. Whereas mere obedience to the law has always failed without “circumcision of the heart”, faith in Christ as Lord (v. 13) always succeeds (vv. 11-13). For (1) Faith does not doubt, though righteousness is beyond human possibility without Christ. (2) Faith is not a distant accomplishment but is near (v. 8), having a vision of Christ is present and easily accessible (vv. 6-8). (3) Faith transforms the whole person; the soul (heart, vv. 8-9) working with the body (mouth) makes it real (vv. 8-10). (4) True faith is accessible to all equally, as even the OT prophets teach (vv. 11-13).

    10:14-21 From 9:1—10:13 Paul has left the Jews of his day, and Jews today, with no excuse for rejecting the Gospel, because Israel had everything, including the Messiah Whom they rejected. Paul insists God fulfilled His part to Israel completely. Israel had extraordinary opportunities to come to faith. For God sent His message through preachers (v. 15) and throughout all creation (v. 18). Israel did indeed hear (vv. 16,18), but did not believe (vv. 16, 21). Therefore God turned to the pagan Nations, who heard and believed (vv. 19, 20). The Jews of Jesus’ time demanded a sign, yet they always had a higher sign than miracles; they had God’s own words, and creation itself.

    When Israel failed to heed the prophets, God gave them a sign of fulfilled prophecy, the conversion of the pagan Nations. Jealousy (v 19) is a powerful motivator. To see the Nations, those deemed far inferior by you, whom you detest, adopted and inheriting your promises and dreams should arouse great indignation.

    At (v 20), God through Isaiah prophecies to Israel “I was found by those who did not seek Me; I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me”. But to Israel God says: “All day long I have stretched out My hands to a disobedient and contrary people.” (v20).

  266. jgalindes May 19, 2009 @ 4:03 pm

    Dear Father Joseph,

    So nice you have dedicated some of your valuable time for me.

    I’ll come back later to comment.

    I have some questions for you, hope I’ll not bother that much!

    Juan

  267. Stav May 19, 2009 @ 4:23 pm

    Hi All, Hi Juan,

    After the first 4-5 sites, I think I have seen enough. The argument has nothing to do with true Rationalism or Mysticism. Nor has it anything to do with Christianity as such, other than the fact that they are mentioning it as a lure, rather than a thing that they believe in.

    And how can they believe in Christ, when they believe in their selves more? Again, it is a tell tale sign of a false premise, when someone puts people, matter, money, even logic and rationalism before God.

    Setting a desired premise based on the relationship of these two, only serves some of their theories and thus their strategy is to get people to agree to these principles first.

    It is clear that these people are interested in gratifying their preconceived ideas about themselves.

    See, this is a common pattern. They claim to be rational, logical, or whatever else, and therefore we are to agree to their premises. Then, based on these premises they can get us to agree to their predetermined ideas. It is obviously not about dialogue, nor about getting to the truth.

    Which reminds me of the same kind of practices practiced by other questionable groups, such as the Zionists. Its is amazing to see that completely different people, such as white supremacists and Zionists, are really driven by the same thing: An extremely bloated ego. And obviously its collective too, as they always stick together, so one can see the similarities between Zionists and these groups are striking.

    Let us all, stick to the TRUTH and HONEST INQUIRY and discussions. It is is done with respect to one another, and a sincere desire for truth and good, our efforts will not be left without a fruitful outcome. This ethos, will then also provide a perfect balance, which requires no extreme and self destructing positions in order to fight Zionism.

    It is important that while we fight, we do not loose our core Christian Identity and values. Let our conscience, God (via prayer), the Bible and for any who is Orthodox the great legacy it has left us, guide us all.

    Stav

  268. Lynda May 19, 2009 @ 5:53 pm

    Dear Juan,

    I followed up most of these sites. I agree with you - there is a lot of resources behind these sites.

    My analysis is this. A patriot backlash is organizing against the ZOG. They want to oppose the ZOG on the basis of the West as a white civilization, America was settled by caucasian Europeans and whites must now oppose the ZOG on the basis of ‘Western Civilization’ and race.

    Well what united Western Civilization? What created Western Civilization? The Church - therefore, they want to enlist Christians in the cause of Western Civilization.

    They are aware enough to see that Christian Zionism and ‘Judeo-Christians’ will be no assistance to them.

    This leaves the Church and those Christians who could enter the Church.

    The problem with this is the White Identity movement for Western Civilization wants the civilization without the Church.

    There is only one institution that can create a civilization out of warring states / nations, repel invasions and deal with cryptos, fifth columns and subversion within. It united Europe as an Empire and gave that rule to new world, it fought the Reconquista and defeated the Muslim invasions for centuries and held the Inquistion against the cryptos, marranoes and fifth columns posing as Christians. It allowed the Jews to live as Jews under their own rabbinic law and in their own communities. It did not allow Jews to pose as Christians and infiltrate and made Inquisition into beliefs and converso families.

    But then, the White Identity movement doesn’t want that institution, without which there will be no victory against the ZOG

  269. Michael K. May 19, 2009 @ 6:55 pm

    Dear Juan,

    White self-worship is Luciferianism. Apollo is Lucifer. Why do they hate Jews? ‘Familiarity breeds contempt.’

    Peace in Christ.

  270. KathJuliane May 20, 2009 @ 10:18 am

    Dear Joanne,

    In Romans 11: 1-10, Jewish unbelief in Christ raises the question whether ‘God cast away His people?” And the answer is “no”. For had He done so, He would have saved none of them. Paul himself, an Israelite, was not cast away (v1); and there is ~a remnant~ (v. 5), a minority, of Israel who choose to believe. Elijah testifies to this, for he thought he was the only one left! (v 2-4). As only a few heeded Elijah in his day, so only a few heed Jesus, the Apostles and Paul (9:27, 29; 1 Thess. 2:14-16) in theirs.

    Elijah, believing that he was the only Israelite of his time who had not apostasized, in his God disabused him of his melancholy conclusion by saying “I have kept for Myself seven thousand men who have not knelt down to the false god Ba’al” to worship him. Paul’s point is that it’s the same way in his age as it was then, and it is the same way now

    God’s grace saves the willing, not the unwilling: those who will receive grace by faith and obey God (vv. 5,6), the elect remnant of Israel that responded to the call of Christ in true faith.. Israel is not willing, for she seeks (v. 7) righteousness on her own terms; through the works of the law, not through the grace of Christ. She stubbornly and freely hardens herself in unrepentence (2:4). God DOES NOT CAST THE PEOPLE AWAY; THEY REMOVE THEMSELVES.

    7-8. Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect (remnant faithful of Israel) have obtained what they have striven for in choosing through faith in the atonement God has provided in Jesus the Messiah. Aside from the elect remnant God has “given” [as in surrendered, yielded up, given over] Israel to their own innate spirit of “stupor”, “hardness”, “blindness”; literally “given over to their own stupidity or callousness”.

    Paul does not give a tough answer without Scriptural support. Here three of Israel’s major figures writing in the three main sections (Moses in the Law, Isaiah in the Prophets; David in the Writings (Psalms) bear witness to Israel’s dullness, blindness and deafness to God, and consequent bondage.

    Israel’s failure to believe in Jesus as the Incarnate Word, despite His many miracles, is due to willful spiritual blindness and hardness of heart, as fortold by Isaiah the prophet. (Is. 6:9. 10, 53:1; John 12:38-41). According to St. John Chrysostomos, Isaiah’s prophecy is descriptive, but does not cause the willful blindness of people. They did not become blind because Isaiah spoke, but rather Isaiah spoke because he foresaw their blindness. God does not harden the heart of anyone but a confirmed rebel.

    God offers everyone the opportunity to “believe” or “trust” Him. Greek ~pistis~ and the equivalent Hebrew, emunah, may be translated by both. But if they reject God, He may eventually make belief impossible: He hardens hearts (Ro 9:18). God hardened Pharoah’s heart (Ex. 9:12, 11:10) after Pharoah hardened his own heart (Ex. 8:32), so that it became impossible for Pharoah to trust in God. Even when he asked Moses for a blessing, it was but a momentary aberration from his self-determined and God-confirmed hardness.

    Romans 11:11-15. Has Israel stumbled that it should fall permanently? Since the Jewish people have fallen away in their rejection of Christ, are they beyond salvation? No, for through Israel’s failure to believe, Paul explains that in the Divine economy, salvation came to the Nations. (v 11). Further, through the Nations’ faith in Christ, Israel’s OPPORTUNITIES for salvation is continually renewed. God’s presence among the Nations provokes the Jews to jealousy and anger (vv. 11,14: 10:19) that they might believe and experience the fullness (v 12) of grace.

    “…Inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Nations, I magnify my ministry, if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save SOME of them.” As their being cast away (v. 15) is caused by their own unbelief (vv. 20, 23), their return through faith would be so glorious, it would be as life from the dead (v.15), the final resurrection itself.

    11:16-22 Paul admonishes his brother Christians, (circumcised and uncircumcised), not to be boastful and contemptuous toward unbelieving Israel, for despite their falling away, Israel’s heritage is holy and ought to make Christians humble. Hebraic tradition and the RIGHTEOUS of Israel is the root (v. 16), the very firstfruits are remnant faithful Israel inclusive of the glorious Apostles, saints and martyrs of the circumcision, and the Righteous Patriarchs, Matriarchs, Prophets, and Kings of the OT era.

    In Eastern Orthodoxy, we never lost this sense of rootedness in Old Israel and in Holy Hebraic Traditions, the best of Temple Judaism, or the ways of the ancient Synagogue and Temple. Historical and spiritual continuity was carried forward in the doxologies and liturgical cycles of prayer and worship which were used by the Apostles, bishops and faithful of the circumcision in the new church communities in the great evangelistic era.

    My father was Greek Orthodox and so was his family before him, and until my grandfather came to America, his people had lived in Greece for virtually all of known history. When we read of Paul preaching to the Hellenes, some of those were my ancestors. For all I know, maybe an ancestor or ancestors of mine originally were Jews in the dispersion that converted to Christ.

    Historical demographers calculate that there were about 7 million Jews in the Roman Empire, 10% of them converts, and an unknown number of “God-fearers” at the time of Jesus Christ. Even if only 1% converted to Christianity prior to 70 CE this would be 70,000 Judeans that became baptized Christians before the desolation of Jerusalem. By Constantine’s time 300 years later, it is estimated that there were 20-25 million Christians out of 70-80 million. And that is just within the Roman Empire, itself. The Lord’s great commission to the Apostles and the spread of the Light of Israel to the Nations all occured according to the ancient prophecies.

    To unrepentant Rabbis and Pharisees Jews, convert Christians of the circumcision were heretics, cursed and excommunicated from synagogue and family if not out-right murdered. They would have been counted as filthy “Gentiles”, being dead to Israel, and lose all rights and inheritances. The early Christians of the circumcision were heavily persecuted by their own blood kin. Our Lord Jesus certainly prepared His disciples for this.

    In those days, there was no such thing as a ‘Judeo-Christian’, one was one or the other. It’s a little like being pregnant, either you are, or you aren’t.

  271. KathJuliane May 20, 2009 @ 12:00 pm

    In Romans 11, Paul uses for his soteriological metaphor something from ancient every day life: specifically the olive tree and the imagery of olive tree propagation by grafting, a process where the tissues of one plant are encouraged to fuse with those of another.

    In most cases, one plant is selected for its roots, and this is called the stock or rootstock. The other plant is selected for its stems, leaves, flowers, or fruits and is called the scion. The scion contains the desired genes to be duplicated in future production by the stock/scion plant.

    Somehow, today the interpretation among Jews, Judaizers and Zionists seems to be that God’s grafting in of the “Gentiles” into the early “Jewish” Church is like apple branches being grafted onto a pear root, both are fruits, but there are still two different kinds of fruits, and the apples replaced the pears in “Replacement Theology”. That is not how it was from God’s point of view, Paul is describing the transplanting of the scion, the wild olive tree of the Nations, onto the holy rootstock of remnant Israel with its good and fruitful branches, which would include the common history of the OT.

    Once the graft fused, especially on gnarly ancient olive tree, it would be virtually impossible to find the grafting scar, it is still one tree. And, Paul used the olive tree as a very rich spiritual metaphor concerning God’s grace, and the conditions in which the Church actually thrives better in, in order to be a fruitful olive tree.

    A limestone soil, however dry or poor, seems best adapted to its healthy development, though the tree will grow in any light soil, and even on clay if well drained; but, as remarked by Pliny, the plant is more liable to disease on rich soils, and paradoxically, the oil is inferior to the produce of the poorer and more rocky ground. The trunk is typically gnarly and twisted. There are recorded living speciman trees 1600-3000 years old.

    The leafy branches of the olive tree - the olive leaf as a symbol of abundance, glory and peace - were used to crown the victors of friendly games and bloody wars. Recorded evidence of olive leaf’s medicinal use dates back thousands of years: it was used by ancient Egyptian and Mediterranean cultures to treat a variety of health conditions. As emblems of benediction and purification, they were also ritually offered to deities and powerful figures in the pagan world.

    Saints and holy martyrs earn victory crowns, the stephanos, the crown of ancient royalty, wreaths made of olive leaves in honor of their spiritual “athletics” as overcomers.

    Protomartyr Stephanos in Acts earned heavenly victory crown of olive leaves for fearlessly witnessing to the Truth of Christ.

    Olive oil has long been considered sacred; it was used to anoint kings and athletes in ancient Greece, and comparably used for sacred purposes in Israel as well. It was burnt in the sacred lamps of temples, including the great lampstand in the Temple, as well as being the “eternal flame” of the original Olympic Games. Victors in these games were crowned with its leaves.

    In the Bible, olivewood, a fine wood, was used for the carved cherubims of the ark of the covenant, and for the doors, lintels and posts of the Temple.

    “For if the firstfruit [in the Bible a small “cake” baked from dough set aside for God-faithful Israel; Abraham and all the Patriarchs of course; but it is Jesus Christ who alone makes Israel holy to begin with, as God consecrated Israel for His Son] is holy, the lump [the loaf made from that dough, the offshoot of remnant Israel and the Nations born of water and the Holy Spirit] is also holy; and if the rootstock [of remnant Israel centered around the sacred root of Jesse that would bring forth the Branch] is holy, so are the branches [all branches of the tree are nourished by the same rootstock, whether natural or grafted of God’s cultivated olive tree.].

    “And if some of the branches were broken off [exscinded, unfruitful—unrepentant Israel], and you [once a nation of pagans separated from God’s promises], being a wild olive tree [uncultivated tree growing in the wilds] were grafted [onto the holy root through baptism and rebirth of the Holy Spirit] in among the remaining [living cultivated, natural fruitful] branches, and with the [natural] branches became a partaker of the [holy] root and [are replete, plump with] fatness [richness, oiliness, holiness] of the olive tree [because of the holy root], do not exult over the [exscinded] branches. But if you do exult over [the exscinded branches], remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.”

    Thus, the ancient historical Church of Christ is one with Israel, as its consummation, its ultimate fruition, neither “Jew nor Gentile” but a new special creation through baptism into Christ and the Holy Spirit as His royal household and the true fulfillment of Israel’s destiny in God’s economy of salvation. Our Lord Jesus Christ stands at the door and knocks. Israel can answer the door, or continue in their unbelief. Israel’s unbelief is a warning to the Church to remain faithful, or else Christians will be cut off unless we continue in faith. God has both goodness and severity—He respects man’s free choices.

    Continuing in faith produces fruit from the great olive tree of our Lord’s creation and cultivation. Before faith, pagans were barren, wild by nature, choosing unbelief and unruly behavior, before being grafted onto the holy root.

    The Church did not “replace” Israel. The ancient historical Church of the Apostles who preached the Gospel to all nations by way of the Dispersion, fused completely with the tissues of the holy root and stump among the good branches of remnant faithful Israel 2,000 years ago, becoming one great olive tree of God which He continues to cultivate, exscinding branches off, and grafting others.

    The blood of Jesus and of the Christian martyrs in the first century, “neither Jew nor Pagan”, nourished the grafting into the holy olive tree which now bears indistinguishable branches and good fruit.

    Belief yields to being cultivated by God. It produces self-control and the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22; 23). “And they, [faithless, apostate Israel, the broken off branches that naturally sprung from the holy root of God’s cultivated olive tree], how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree?

  272. KathJuliane May 20, 2009 @ 3:48 pm

    Romans 11:25-27 is Paul’s final answer 2,000 years ago to the paradox of Jewish unbelief, which is the revelation of a mystery: “For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own estimation, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Nations has come in.”

    Then Paul quotes from Isaiah 59:20, 21 and Isaiah 27:9. “Scripture” was the Torah, Prophets and Writings, and was the text taught from then in that the NT had not been collated yet. Like all quotes of OT Scripture found in the NT, the quote implied the entire content and context of the entire prophecy or chapter.

    Like all rabbis of his day, he would expect that the Christian Judeans in the blended community, and their memorization of Scripture would recall it all to mind. Isaiah 59 is all about Israel’s blindness and hard-heartedness, and how it would be when “the Deliverer will come out of Zion” and the destined commission of Israel passes to the Nations because of Israel’s faithlessness and rebellion against God. 8 centuries before, Isaiah described exactly what Jesus Christ, Paul, the Apostles, and the Jerusalem Church were facing among their own kindred.

    This is another slight shift in focus from the pagan converts in the Roman community, to the “remnant of Israel” concerning the great mystery of Israel’s unbelief and iniquity, and rebellion against God’s prophetic destiny to preach the Gospel. There may have been some contentions going on about “chosen people” vs. pagan converts that Paul was addressing.

    Eastern Christianity doesn’t see itself as “Replacement Theology”, nor is it conscious of itself as “Gentiles” from the Jewish and Judaizing point of view. In the Biblical worldview, “Gentiles” always meant the pagan and idolatrous nations in a world of darkness, surrounding the nation of Israel, and the Lord God Yahveh in the Jerusalem Temple.

    After the desolation of Jerusalem, the Church, fused with remnant Israel as God’s “cultivated olive tree”, carried forward and planted the Gospel of “the Deliverer coming out of Zion” among the Nations ever since Apostolic times.

    As Paul writes, for while the Nations are being gathered in between Christ’s two comings, so are the elect of Jacob. When the Second Coming occurs, no one knows. In 1 Thess. 4:13-18 in its entirety, and not just focusing on the cherry-picked verse 15, clearly outlines the Second Coming of Christ and its signs, which will be “like a thief in the night” for its suddenness and unexpectedness.. The first century document, The Didache, lists three signs that will clearly mark the return of the Lord:

    (1) “the sign spread out in the heavens”—Christ and His hosts;
    (2) “the sign of the trumpet of God”; and
    (3) “the resurrection of the dead” first before those alive are “caught up”.

    Then, often ignored or overlooked by popular Christianity is that Paul immediately follows with Thess 5:1 which clearly says that it is folly to attempt to speculate about the return of the Lord and making predictions. The disciples had gotten the same kinds of answers from Christ Himself (Matt. 24:36; Acts 1:6, 7).

  273. musician May 20, 2009 @ 11:16 pm

    MEMORIAL DAY CONCERT PERFORMANCE

    Not being nearly as talented as our kosher overlords and always late to their performances, I can seldom understand their methods of musical composition . . . let alone anticipate them.

    However, it would appear that with the suddenly ailing voice of potentially discordant critic Hosni Mubarak waylaid from his duties, the relentless drum beat of war between the principals Israel and Iran can continue in crescendo.

    Live from the Israeli-owned world stage, the Prelude to the First Act of “Strike Iran” has already begun; a mind-boggling and diabolically brilliant Israeli-commissioned Opera. The exposition of the First Act is to be chimed in soon AFTER the stroke of Obama’s mallet, at measure number HR1913; the Coda of the Prelude . . . a Coda composed so subtly, it completely and permanently leaves its critics, speechless . . . and by the end of the composition, leaves almost all of its audience ultimately deaf.

    I pray we never have to hear the rest of this Prelude that has already begun, and that the secret composer be revealed and forever banned from composing music before he can do anymore harm.

    But, if we must witness this spectacle, I sincerely hope you’ll reconsider your relative proximity to the stage . . . and before it’s too late.

    For your convenience, in the program, you can follow the score as we approach HR1913 here: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1913/show

  274. KathJuliane May 21, 2009 @ 8:05 pm

    Who came up originally with the seeds of “Replacement Theology” and expounded “Two Covenant Theology”? The Jewish Rabbis.

    Jesus said, “I am the Way—and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except through Me”.

    The “deliverance out of Zion” was meant for Israel (Matt. 10:6, 15:24)—“the Light to bring revelation to the Nations, and the glory (Shekinah) of Your people Israel” (Luke 2:32). But as an incorporated nation under the Law of Moses, Israel failed to receive it, even after the Lord’s Resurrection, even in the face of the mighty wonderworking signs through the Holy Spirit wrought by the Apostles AND the baptized faithful not just in Israel, but throughout the Nations, both “Jew and Gentile”.

    Numerous individuals did accept it, but the vast majority, including the establishment did not. Israel on the whole was, and is, in rebellion and hardened to the will of God, and remains so today. This led to giving the “deliverance out of Zion” to the Ecclesia of the baptized remnant faithful Israel AND the converts from out of the Nations, as Acts documents, although God has never stopped holding out his hands to the “disobeying and contradicting” Jews.

    The traditional Jewish counter-claim is that the righteous of all nations have always had a place in the world to come, under Israel’s World Zionist Organization global domination and Rabbinic Great Sanhedrin government, with worship centered at the future “Third Temple”, with a reinstituted high priesthood, Levites, and probably animal sacrifices, all from Jerusalem of course, as soon as they can cleanse the Palestinians and Arabs, their defiling churches and their mosques, off of the land of “Greater Israhell”—from the Nile to the Euphrates.

    If the Christian and Muslim “unclean beasts” want to stay on the land, then Christians must give up Jesus Christ and all faith in the Holy Tri-unity as idolatry, become rabbinically approved “Bene Noach” or “Righteous Gentiles” and accept the “Seven Noachide Laws” under the Rabbis (of which there are actually upwards of 600 legal precepts to religiously abide by) or face the death penalty by immediate beheading.

    And since Islam is considered a “defective”, but rabbinically tolerable monotheism”, and the Zionists play the “Semitic brothers” card classifying them as the “house of Ishmael” under the Rabbinic rulings, as long as Muslims give up claims to the Noble Sanctuary, where the Jews have grossly deluded themselves as being where the Temple once stood, and submit to Zionist Rabbinic authority, also under the Noachide Laws. Then the Arabs and Palestinians under the Noachide Laws be “allowed” to remain on the land, with no political or civil rights.

    On the more intellectually palatable side of things, but no less toxic, duplicitious and subversive in Judaizing Christianity, the Pharisee Rabbinic Talmudic counter-claim that “the righteous of all nations” (under the dreamed for Noachide Laws as Righteous Gentiles) have always had a place in the world to come beneath Israel.

    Therefore, Christianity is essentially superfluous and unnecessary, although it merely deserves credit for helping the Jews to lead Gentiles out of idolatry toward monotheism. Now the Jews have been very, very busy attempting to destroy authentic Christianity as they have avowed to do for centuries, and remake it into something of their own image, the hybrid Judeo-Christianity, and for their own purposes like Zionism.

    However, Christianity does not lead them to true monotheism, according to the all-wise and all-knowing Rabbis, heirs of the of the sanctimonious Pharisee “traditions of men” that our Lord Jesus pronounced “Woes” upon, because it “teaches that a man is God”. (No, God incarnated as the God-Man Jesus the Messiah as prophesied and witnessed in Scripture.) Moreover, in this Rabbinic view, Christianity is not only unnecessary for Jews (since the Jews were saved and perfected at Sinai), but is a positive evil, since it leads Jews away from their more perfect “monotheism” of Babylonian Talmudic Judeo-Gnostic Zio-Masonic Theosophical Illuminatism they claim was handed down to them by Moses through a separate secret Oral Torah apart from the Written Torah..

    How about some examples of Jewish Anti-Christian thought that has inspired “Replacement Theology” in Western Christianity? You can be assured that Jewish brains over the past several hundred years since the Enlightment have spent considerable brain power on how best to Judaize Christianity in their satanic favor.

    The idea that God has placed Israel only temporarily in a condition less favored by God than that of the “Gentiles” (the Christian world), and then being restored to their mythical and legendary glory, temporarily eclipsed by the Gentiles (the Christian world) can be found in the rabbinic writings.

    This is no place to expound upon the amazing fact that people who really believe in Holy Scripture and accept the Holy One of Israel, Jesus Christ, Who fulfilled all of the Law and the Prophets, meekly accept the designation “Gentiles” which in the Bible refers to pagan sex-worshipers, idolators, demon-invokers (1 Thessalonians 4:1-12; 1 Corinthians 10:20).

  275. KathJuliane May 21, 2009 @ 8:14 pm

    Their sophistic rationales are most ingenious through a variety of very clever means and skills and kabbalistic exegetical systems, including a method called pilpul, or changing the actual meaning of words in Scripture. They quote Scripture in order to reverse it in the Talmud and Rabbinic rulings. Over and over in the Talmud and the Rabbinic commentaries on Scripture, the Sages say “read it not thus and thus, but read it thus and thus.”

    For example, in the Talmud the passage, “But if you will not hear it, my soul will weep in secret for the pride” (Jeremiah 13:17) is examined rabbinically:

    “What is the meaning of the phrase “for the pride”? Rabbi Shmu’el ben-Yitzchak said ‘For the glory [Hebrew ~gaveh~, literally “pride”, “arrogance”] has been taken away from them and given to the nations of the world.” (Chagigah 5b).

    But instead of “arrogance”, the Talmud, ever ready to heap praise upon its own Rabbinic brilliance, “gaveh” is pulpiled to mean the “glory of God” or the Shekinah. For the rabbis, who have redefined geveh, “pride or arrogance” into “spiritual glory and power”, declares in so many words that “the glory of God” or Shekinah remains with Israel even when the temporal outward aspects pass to others.

    Yet, the prophecy of Jeremiah reads, concerning the conquest by Babylon and the impending doom the first time Jerusalem was destroyed for turning to idolatry:

    “Hear ye, and give ear; BE NOT PROUD: for the Lord hath spoken. Give glory to the Lord your God, before He causes darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the dark mountains, and while ye look for light, he turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness. But if ye will not hear it, my soul shall weep in secret places for your pride; and mine eye shall weep sore, and run down with tears, because the Lord’s flock is carried away captive. Say unto the king and to the queen, ‘Humble yourselves, sit down: for your principalities shall come down, even the crown of your glory.”

    Also in the Talmud, the saying of Rabbi Papa, “When the ox runs and falls, the horse is put in the ox’s stall” (Sanhedrin 98b), is explained by the Jewish commentators, such as Rashi, as referring to Israel and “Gentile nations” (the Christian world at the time of their writings).

    Thus the Soncino English edition of the Talmud explains that the horse is allowed to replace the ox, but when the ox recovers it is hard to remove the horse. Likewise, the Israelites fell and the Gentiles were given power, but when Israel recovers it will be hard to remove the Gentiles (Christian world) from their position of power without inflicting much suffering.

    Gentiles Must Suffer to Make Jews The Messiah

    Sanhedrin 98b: Although some Jews look for an individual, political, conquering Jewish Messiah who will help place Jewry on the throne of the world THE ACTUAL VIEW OF JUDAISM IS THAT THE JEWISH PEOPLE THEMSELVES COMPRISE THE MESSIAH, AND THEIR REIGN IS THE MESSIANIC REIGN.

    The great tribulation of the AntiChrist foretold to precede the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, in which Satanism strives to subdue the world, is sneered at by the Talmud and called “fictitious.” Babylonian cabalistic power will not fall. The tribulation will be but “the throes of mother Jewish Zion which is in labor to bring forth the Messiah; without metaphor, the Jewish people. (Kethuboth 111a).

    In other words, to call the Jewish people the Messiah is no metaphor; they are literally just that; they are the Messiah, says the Talmud.

    The passage in Sanhedrin 98b records the exulting words of the Pharisee Rabbis: “The Jews are destined to eat their fill in the days of the Jewish Messiah.” And then: “The years of plenty which the Messiah will usher in will be enjoyed by the Israelites.”

    The congregation of Israel was ever a racial entity; the Bible testifies to that. All blessings promised to True Israel and Christians are stolen by the Jews.

    Let the Gentiles Mourn

    Sanhedrin 98b-99a: One of those typical cover-up passages reads: “a Min (Christian) said to Rabbi Abbahu, ‘When will the Messiah come?’ He replied, ‘When darkness covers those people;’ Alluding to the questioner and his companions, ‘You curse me,’ he exclaimed.” Concerning the “darkness:” “The cock said to the bat, ‘I look forward to the light, because I have sight; but of what use is the light to thee?’”

    All this is explained: “Thus Israel should hope for the redemption, because it will be a day of light to them, but why should the Gentiles, seeing that for them it will be a day of darkness?”

  276. KathJuliane May 21, 2009 @ 10:18 pm

    “Two Covenant Theology”

    Jesus said, “I am the Way—and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except through Me”.

    This challenge strikes at the heart of Babylonian Judaism’s denial of Jesus as the Messianic mediator to Israel. Some try to ignore this challenge by denying its authenticity: either the Gospel of St. John the Theologian is historically untrustworthy or the words are not those of Jesus, but placed into His mouth by early church theologians, which of course entirely denies the divine inspiration of the New Testament.

    Most interesting is Two-Covenant theology, now formal doctrine widely disseminated among Christian Zionists and others, including the Papacy, originated by Rabbi Moses Maimonides of the 12th century, and then pioneered in the early 20th century by the German-Jewish philosopher Franz Rosenzweig. A German Jew raised in an assimilated family, he seriously considered the claims of Christianity, particularly through a friendship with a convert Christian Eugen Rosenstock.

    He was close to converting to the Faith, when he decided to give traditional Judaism one last chance. He went to synagogue on the Day of Atonement, and inspired by the depth of the prayers, decided to cast his lot with his ancient heritage and his own people.

    Since elaborated by such liberal Christian theologians as Reinhold Niebuhr and James Parkes, making the rounds through the intelligensia of Europe, such as the Zionist Martin Buber who wrote his book, ‘Two Faiths’, Rosenzweig’s philosophical theory holds that the Jewish people were brought close to God by means of the Covenant with Abraham and the Law of Moses, so that they don’t need to “come” to the Father through Jesus or anyone else, because they are already with Him.

    Accordingly, Jesus Christ’s word is not for Jews but for Gentiles only and is to be understood thusly: “I am the way, the truth and the life for Gentiles, and no Gentile comes to the Father except through me.”

    The Two-Covenant theory may be understood as a modern variant of the Talmudic doctrine stating that Jews are bound by the Law of Moses, but Gentiles share in the world to come IF they obey the rabbinically concocted seven “Noachide laws” given after the flood to Noah for all mankind—prohibitions against idolatry, murder incest, theft blasphemy and eating the flesh of a live animal; and the positive command to promote justice, ie, to institute government (Sanhedrin 56a).

    The Two-Covenant theory enables the Jewish Community to live in apparent peace (from their own point of view as far as it can be manipulated, exploit and undermine authentic Biblical Faith) with its Christian neighbors by alleviating the pressure on Judaism to downgrade Jesus Christ, the New Testament and Christianity; for a Jew can now say, “We Jews have our own way, Judaism; and you Gentiles have your way, Christianity. “We will each serve God best by following the way provided for us. It is a manifestation of God’s grace that He has provided Jesus for you Gentiles and the Law of Moses for us Jews.”

    Thus Jesus can be held in high regard, even possibly a “Jewish rabbi” and now a good man, Martin Buber can call Him “elder brother”, because His claims are not taken as posing any threat to the structure of Pharisee Babylonian Judaism. And the Pope can now graciously “absolve” Jewry because they are already saved, and its been all a very terrible misunderstanding about Jewry’s “unconditional covenant” of Abraham, and that the Law of Moses is, and always has been, the salvation of the Jews.

    Clearly this theory does not fit the New Testament facts at all. The “tolerance for Christianity” that it produces is not tolerance of what the New Testament declares, because Jesus was of the house of David, Incarnated as the Messiah in ancient Judea, and it was the Great Sanhedrin of the Jews that judicially murdered by proxy of Pontius Pilate who was politically manipulated into it.

    Furthermore, if the Jews are now grudgingly able to say that Jesus was a “great Jewish teacher”, when they don’t dismiss Him outright as a sorcerer, liar and a madman, and the Faith He founded as a religious fraud, then the unavoidable question is, “Then why don’t you Jews believe and act on his “great teaching, ‘I AM the Way—and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except through Me’?”

    It is pointless and futile to speculate how God might have brought that deliverance out of Zion, had the leaders and the majority of Israel obeyed the Gospel when it was first offered 2,000 years ago. The Temple is gone, God desolated and destroyed it and OT Jerusalem as was decreed in the 490 year time prophecy and indictment against Israel as spoken by the Prophet Daniel. Jesus Christ brought the “Kingdom of God” to the world through His Crucifixion and Resurrection.

    What we Christians do know is that God did in fact allow Israel’s willful disobedience as a means, causing remnant faithful Israel, the Apostles and notably Paul, to evangelize the ancient Pagans as well as Judeans of the diaspora, and we know that the Pagans responded overwhelmingly.

    The deliverance out of Zion has come to the Nations for over 2,000 years, and the Church of Christ still must be about her “great commission” to the Nations until the very Last Day, whenever that will be. But just as God used Israel’s decline as a means of bringing that deliverance to the Nations, so now God is now using the Nations’ deliverance (the Church) in order to provoke Israel to “jealousy” or “zeal” for Christ, so that deliverance can come to Israel to whom it was promised. Many Jews are called through the generations, but few answer the call to be a part of “remnant faithful Israel”.

    Down through the centuries, a few Jews at a time in both the East and the West, provoked to “jealousy” or “zeal”, of their own choice, freewill and thirst for Christ, without any form of coercive force or manipulative politics, like our dear Brother Nathanael, have chosen to authentically and sincerely repent from the heart to Christ Jesus, giving up Babylonian Judaism and the pride, vanity, and racial self-worship of “chosenness” completely. Baptized into His Body—the Church—from out of unrepentant Israel, these prodigal sons and daughters come to the Lord’s heavenly table and join the heavenly liturgy praising God. When this happens, the heavens rejoice.

    Paul writes “then all Israel will be saved” (v. 26)—that is, true Israel, which he already defined back in Romans 9:6. “For they are not all Israel who are Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham”, but in “in Isaac thy seed shall be called”, FAITHFUL believers in Christ are the true children of Abraham. Circumcision was the sign of Abraham’s FAITH in his Lord God. Being a child of God (9:8) has never been based on race or family, “those who are children of the flesh, these are not the children of God”. True Israel are those who truly believe throughout history, and not all physical descendents of Jacob.

  277. Michael K. May 22, 2009 @ 4:56 am

    Dear KathJuliane,

    What a beautifully written scholarly teaching. I deeply appreciate your effort to teach us according to the true faith. I hope you will have many blessings.

  278. jgalindes May 22, 2009 @ 11:43 am

    Dear kathJuliane,

    As Michael K said before, great job. I’ve converted into a PDF document and will try to find some time to read it.

    Juan

  279. jacob June 25, 2009 @ 3:42 pm

    I thought you might be interested in learning about OUR Jewish traditions which embrace the real Christ. We are the Frankist Association of America. One of our members has a new book out:

    http://www.amazon.com/Real-Messiah-Throne-Origins-Christianity/dp/1906787123/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245892844&sr=8-1

    These are our teachings passed on through generations. If you can’t afford the book you can see the website of one of our teachers - www.stephanhuller.blogspot.com.

    Shalom

    Beth El Jacob Frank

  280. Jack August 4, 2009 @ 3:52 am

    The World has been horrified by latest Gaza Massacre inflicted by Apartheid Israel on what the Catholic Church describes as Gaza Concentration Camp - over 1,300 Palestinians killed (one third being children) and over 5,000 wounded in response to zero Israeli deaths from Gaza missiles in the preceding year.

    This latest Israeli atrocity has highlighted the utter racist obscenity of the continuing 42 year Occupation and has led to growing indignation against Apartheid Israel and the Zionists and other Western neocons who support Jewish colonization and ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

    The racist Zionists routinely falsely condemn critics of the State of Israel as “anti-Semites” and indeed extend this false abuse to Jewish critics of Zionism by falsely calling them “self-hating Jews” as well as “anti-Semites”.

    Anti-Semitism means damaging Semitic people in word or deed for being ethnically or culturally Semitic, noting that Semites include 300 million Arab Semites, 1,500 million culturally Semitic Muslims and 15 million largely culturally Semitic Jews.

    The anti-Arab anti-Semitism of the racist Zionists is clear in word and horrendous, genocidal deed in Occupied Palestine. However the anti-Jewish anti-Semitism of the racist Zionists is revealed by (a) their virulent attacks on outstanding anti-racist Jews critical of Zionist war crimes and other human rights abuses and (b) their false identification of all Jews with the racist policies of the racist Zionists running Apartheid Israel.

    The horrendous crimes of the racist Zionists and their false identification of all Jews with those crimes represent major threats to the safety of Jews around the world. As perceived by UK writer Alan Bate in his recent book “Zionism: the Real Enemy of the Jews” (Clarity Press), racist Zionism represents an immense threat not just to the Arab and Muslim World but also to decent, anti-racist, humanitarian Jews throughout the World

    Virulent, false defamation by fanatical racist Zionists has scared most politicians and commentators of the Western Murdochracies into adopting explicit or implicit pro-Israel positions. Most criticism of Apartheid Israel now comes from Arab or Muslim sources; anti-racist, generally leftist Western writers and activists; and from anti-racist Jews.

    However these sacred injunctions are grossly violated by the anti-Arab anti-Semitic racist Zionists running Apartheid Israel and their Western backers variously involved in the ongoing Palestinian Genocide, Iraqi Genocide and Afghan Genocide (post-invasion violent and non-violent excess deaths 0.3 million, 2.3 million and 3-7 million, respectively; post-invasion under-5 infant deaths 0.2 million, 0.6 million and 2.3 million, respectively; refugees totalling 7 million, 5-6 million and 3-4 million, respectively, plus a further 2.5 million NW Pakistan Pashtun refugees).

    For details and documentation see “Pro-Zionist Western Holocaust Denial” on MWC News:

    @ http://mwcnews.net/content/view/29844/26/

    All decent, anti-racist, humanitarians must vigorously oppose and sideline those supporting racist Zionism, Apartheid Israel and racist Western wars and occupations who are currently complicit in 0.7 million non-violent excess deaths annually; continuing, racist perversion of human rights, humanitarian values and rational discourse in the Western democracies; ignoring of worsening, Western-complicit climate genocide (that may kill 10 billion non-Europeans this century through unaddressed man-made climate change); and egregious anti-Jewish anti-Semitism through falsely identifying decent, anti-racist Jews with these appalling crimes.

    The fundamental moral issue has been clearly stated by outstanding Jewish American scholar Professor Jared Diamond who in his best-selling book “Collapse” (Prologue, p10, Penguin edition) enunciated the “moral principle, namely that it is morally wrong for one people to dispossess, subjugate, or exterminate another people” – an injunction grossly violated by racist Zionist (RZ)-run Apartheid Israel and its racist, genocide-committing and genocide-ignoring US Alliance backers.

    Source:
    http://mwcnews.net/content/view/32071/42/

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