Putin Stops Gay Parade In Moscow
PUTIN STOPS GAY PARADE IN MOSCOW
By Brother Nathanael Kapner, Copyright 2009
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PRIME MINISTER VLADIMIR PUTIN WILL NOT TOLERATE that which he deems will undermine the “moral foundations” of Russian society. For on May 16, 2009, the latest attempt to hold a Gay Pride Parade in Moscow was over before it began.
Moscow police broke up a crowd of gay activists preparing to protest, arresting at least 24 of them, including the event’s organizers, of whom, some were outside agitators from Europe. The activists had gathered in front of Moscow State University in the south-western part of the city.
As the protestors began chanting: “We want the right for same-sex marriage!” - Vladimir Putin instructed the mayor of Moscow, Yury Luzhkov, to send in riot police to make the arrests. Putin did allow, however, an earlier rally in the center of Moscow to take place. This rally was made up of a large number of demonstrators from various Russian Orthodox Christian organizations who denounced homosexuality and lesbianism.
Moscow Mayor, Yuri Luzhkov, branded gay parades as “Satanic” and vowed that they would never be permitted in the capital. The Russian Orthodox Church has also vowed to halt any attempt to hold a march in support of gay rights in Russia.
The mayor, reflecting Putin’s view on same-sex marriages, was quoted by the ITAR-Tass news agency as saying: “Gay pride events destroy the moral foundations of our society.”
Luzhkov promised to continue banning Gay Parades, declaring, “We will ban the propagation of the views of sexual minorities because they are a major factor of the distribution of HIV and AIDS. Some home-brewed democrats may consider that sexual minorities can be the main indicator and symbol of democracy, but we will forbid further dissemination of this erroneous idea.”
IN KEEPING WITH THE MAYOR’S BAN, a Russian lesbian couple was denied their request to marry in Moscow on May 12, 2009. The authorities refused to issue the couple a marriage license, saying that the Russian Family Code does not allow those of the same sex to be married. View Entire Story Here, Here & Here.
At a press conference held at the Kremlin, Putin was asked to comment on the remark by the Moscow mayor that Gay Pride parades were a “satanic act.” Putin answered with a tongue & cheek response which resulted in the packed Kremlin auditorium exploding in laughter and applause:
“My approach to gay parades and sexual minorities is very simple. It is directly linked to my responsibilities. One of the key problems of our country is demographics. We want our nation to grow!” View Entire Story Here.
IRANIAN WAR PLANES DID NOT TAKE OFF FOR AN AIR SHOW on April 18, 2009, due to Putin’s warning that Israel was planning to destroy all 140 fighter-bombers. The planes were concentrated at the Mehr-Abad Air Force base on April 17, 2009, in preparation for an air show over Tehran on Iran’s “Army Day” the following day. Heeding Putin’s warning, the entire fleet was removed to remote bases and the air show was cancelled.
Putin had informed the Iranians that its spy satellites and intelligence sources had picked up preparations at Israeli Air Force bases to destroy the 140 warplanes, (the bulk of the Iranian air force), on the ground the night before the display, leaving its nuclear sites without aerial defense. A similar operation wiped out the entire Egyptian air fleet in the early hours of the 1967 war.
Many in Israel now fear that the Middle East could once again become a theatre for Russia to exert its sphere of influence, both militarily and politically. This fear was raised in August of 2008, when Syrian President, Bashar al-Assad, met with Putin in Moscow to conclude a series of military agreements, saying, “We are ready to co-operate with Russia in any project that can strengthen its security.”
RETURNING THE FAVOR, Putin proposed a revival of its Cold War era naval base at the Syrian port of Tartus, giving the Russian Navy its first foothold in the Mediterranean for two decades. Damascus and Moscow were close allies during the Cold War but the Kremlin’s influence in the region waned after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Last summer’s rapprochement between Russia and Syria raised the possibility that Moscow intends to re-create a global anti-Western/anti-Zionist alliance with its former Soviet bloc allies. Some Israeli analysts fear that this rapprochement will encourage Syria to try to take back the Golan Heights, captured by Israel in 1967.
On January 12, 2009, Putin’s proposal was put into action. A task force from the Russian Navy’s Northern Fleet arrived in the Syrian port of Tartus from Turkey. Syria welcomed Russia’s fleet by hosting a naval exercise with Moscow. Putin has continued to send a range of vessels to the Syrian port as part of routine maneuvers in the Mediterranean. And, the Russian Navy has been operating a maintenance site at Tartus ever since.
Russian officials say that its Navy plans to modernize Tartus over the next few years in an effort to gain a better foothold in the Mediterranean. The officials stated that Tartus, designed to accommodate up to a dozen warships, will become the base for the Russian Navy’s Black Sea Fleet. View Entire Story Here, Here & Here.
In Vladimir Putin …
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Brother Nathanael @ May 19, 2009
Hi Everybody Of Our Precious Real Zionist News Family!
I just got back from NYC last nite and I am thrilled to tell you all that the RESPONSE was TREMENDOUSLY positive to the Street Evangelism I conducted!
I went to both Wall Street and Times Sq and the youth MOBBED ME with questions about the Message & Love Of Jesus Christ Our Saviour!
Also, OUR site, Real Zionist News, (formerly Real Jew News), reached an all time high of hits on the last article, “Israel - Death Of The Jewish State.” Many thanks to Nicolae Ibasfalean who has been sending out hundreds of email advertisments a week.
Please consider helping to keep OUR SITE, Real Zionist News online and helping with my Street Evangelism also, as I have already made plans and reservations for a return trip to NYC, July 7-July 14, 2009.
There is a hassle free DONATION FEATURE at the top and bottom of this article. Of simply CLICK:
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Your +Brother In Christ Jesus, Nathanael
Hi Br. Nathanael,
What a glorious article! And what a beautiful way to handle the attempt to do a gay pride parade! I cannot describe how I felt when I read about both of these triumphs!
The parade cancellation, and the second part of the article about Iran and the help they got from Russian intelligence, shows what I have been seeing and suspected for some time now. Br. Nathanael has also many times presented articles which support this even more:
It is clear that Russia is right now, one of the most powerful and determined powers (if not the only) to be able and that is planning to resist the coming changes. It is definitely the only Christian power remaining that can do this.
I bet they scare Zionists to no end, and its only getting worse. I also bet some of these Zionist leading people are frothing in anger at Russia and wonder what they can do about it… On the more negative side of things, this also means that we could be looking at some retaliation to Russia’s refusal to fall into the Zionist agenda. Perhaps military or otherwise. But again, Russia is strong and will become stronger as time passes.
Needless to say, I love the fact that it is also an Orthodox Christian Country and which at the moment has Orthodox Leaders, true Patriots, determined and ruthless in telling the truth.
I hope God blesses this great nation and gives them the power, strength and blessing to become the tip of the spear against Zionism!
Stav
As a Catholic, I’m so depressed over our Pope’s obeisance to Israel that I’m almost thinking of attending an Orthodox Church from now on. At least they don’t grovel before the Zionists. Speaking of our Pope groveling, here’s an interesting take on it:
http://truthisbeauty.wordpress.com
The antipope Benedict is owned by the Rothschilds,they control him!!!
In my opinion the United States of America is becomming a sodom and gomorrah. The media has been successful at making homosexuality an “in thing”.
Brother Nathanael writes here that the authorities in Russia denied a gay parade to take place. It sounds like Russia is more Christian than the United States is.
This reminds me of a statement that Edgar Cayce said, “Yet of Russia comes the hope of the world”. Something to check out.
Craig,
I am a fellow catholic and cannot stand the pro israel stance they hold.
I still believe and pray to the Lord but rather than attending church I conduct my beliefs at home.
The Vatican to me appears to be infested with lowlifes who cannot see the truth of what the Zionists are doing to our beloved world.
Dear Damien and Craig,
Please understand that the time through which we are living is exactly what the bishops of the Roman Catholic Church have declared:
“This, our time is the hour of the power of darkness” when antichrist would be given strength over the continual sacrifice and truth shall be cast down on the ground”
Daniel 8:12 - the Easter Sermon 2007.
This time has been long forseen by the saints of the Church and upon this subject, the popes have not been silent.
In 1822, the Alta Vendiata published “Catholicism must be destroyed throughout the world.”
Pope Pius IX identified Judeo-Masonry as “the synagogue of Satan.”
In 1832, Pope Gregory XVI wrote in an encyclical to his bishops “Satan has obtained permission to grind the Elect as wheat…you must diligently take care that the faith may be preserved amidst the great conspiracy of impious men who attempt to tear down and destroy it.”
Mirari Vos, 1832.
And the Synagogue of Satan with the publication of the Catholic world of Mirari Vos, perceivede its time had come.
All right. Obviously, unless you believe the new novus ordo catholic religion, they have the Chair of Peter in Rome. This is not the time to abandon the Church but to stand with the Church.
www.thepopeinred.com
Dear Damien and Craig,
I continue.
Because this is the time, long forseen, it means that events will bring to one side decisive victory and to the other final defeat.
We know that it is Our Lady who has the promise to our First Parents that she will crush the head of the Serpent.
The Synagogue of Satan (and the Luciferian Throne of their New World Order) is going to fall as nothing has fallen since Satan. Nothing surer. It is the Church that is going on to marytyrdom and final victory.
Nothing surer.
Hi all,
A quick look at national debt between the USA and Russia will show, that being “hip” and a puppy of Zionism, does not help your country.
A quick comparison of the two countries shows this clearly:
United States | government debt
Result:
$ 8.059 trillion (US dollars)
(http://www79.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=russia+debt)
Russia | government debt
Result:
$ 98.81 billion (US dollars)
(http://www79.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=russia+debt)
This official numbers, show a near 100 times more debt for the USA! That alone is enough to see how much the US has been drained by the US government blind adherence to the Zionist task list.
It is sad to see, as the US started on the right foot…
Russia has both the resources (natural, human and cultural) to Crush any and all tools of the Zionist New World Order, as it takes care of its own, for the sake of its own and the rest of us…
And lets not forget, Russian people are ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN, which means they will also not fall into the traps of the Catholic or any other Christian organization which has made far too many compromises, both doctrinal but also ethical in general.
The combination of their faith and power is one of the few hopes we have left.
And to think that Russia has reached this state in only a few years after the collapse of the Zionist inspired and controlled communist plague that attempted to crush it. Now, they are back with a vengeance, and they know who the enemy is…
Again, may God the Father and Jesus Christ be with, and may the Holy Spirit saturate and guide their every action, so that they become our first and powerful defense against the war that they will wage against humanity. We must all pray for the Russian leaders, and people.
Stav
Kudos to Putin a man that is man.
And Kudos to the Eastern Orthodox Church for being unafraid to take a moral stand unlike other churches that - god forbid - allows even their clergy to engage and even marry in the same gender marriage.
Edgar Cayce said ….
As Russia goes so the rest of the world goes
(or words similar)
Go Putin
I fear we in Australia will be on the wrong side when we fight the evil forces of the world.
I envy the Russian people.
How nice it must be to have a leadership of nationalist who believe their primary responsibility is to their OWN people first and foremost.
Unlike our ‘leadership’ here in the West who have contempt for the people they rule over and who are constantly working at some internationalist agenda.
Ken
In the mid-nineteenth century, Lord Acton, one of the greatest Roman Catholic historians described The Papacy as, “the fiend skulking behind a Crucifix”.
Papal Rome was the cause of 605 years of Inquisition, St.Bartholomew’s Massacre, The Crusades.
The Roman Church has been Apostised for over 193 years.
Dear Lynda,
Agree once more with you.
I’d add Leo XIII efforts to name the worst enemy of the time:
FREEMASONRY.
And,many authors keep saying that in 1822/1823 “Rothschild took over Vatican’s finances”.
I never saw documents proving that assertions.
In the same vein,is FREEMASONRY active in Russia?
Juan
Please don’t fall into the “Putin will save the world” deception. The NWO Zionists always control both sides of any issue. Russia has been under Zionist control since the Bolshevik Revolution, which was 99.99% Jewish in origin. Russia has been a key player in the Zionist-Globalist Conspiracy for almost a hundred years now. The NWO Zionists are trying to make Cold War #2.
The original Cold War was immensely profitable, both financially & geopolitically, for the global elite. The internet has allowed the average global citizen to catch onto the War on Terror ruse. Now the Zionist plot is crystal clear for anyone to see. An Israeli-US attack on Iran or further provocation in the Mid-East will be much more difficult for the NWO Zionists to pull off. So, it looks like Cold War #2 is their answer. Why not? It worked very well for them for almost 50 years.
The salvation of the world will come through dissemination of TRUTH. That’s why the Zionists are unrelenting in shoving Hate-Crime laws down our throats. It’s an excuse to quash free speech & criticism of Zionism. That’s why they control 100% of the media, 100% of politics, 100% of education … ad nauseum.
The TRUTH really will set you free.
Thank you so much for this website - I would prefer to send a check or a money order to you although i cant afford much - do you have an address for this purpose-
Thanks and God bless, stay safe best regards
Dear Lynda,
You hit the nail on the head. This geopolitical psycho-spiritual-societal battle for the minds, hearts, souls and spirits of SIX BILLION PEOPLE currently residing on the surface of this planet earth of God’s creating has now all distilled down to ‘The Keys’ entrusted to St. Peter and his successors.
Those ‘Keys’ have NOT been used since Our Lady of Fatima’s Messages and Instructions.
Hence, that which God is WILLING to unleash as Divine Graces and Supernatural Aids from His Divine Throne in Heaven have been BOUND IN HEAVEN.
Satan has skillfully and cunningly used his agents in the Catholic Church’s Hierarchy from ensuring those KEYS are not inserted into the LOCK which now imprisons and threatens the entire Human Race.
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Damien and Craig,
Information for the two of you SO THAT you understand the Spiritual-Combat-Warfare currently being waged by Satan vs. our Human Race and our Lord’s Church Militant here on earth:
1st - Pope Leo XIII’s mystical revelation of 1884 A.D. resulting in the Prayer to St. Michael the Archangel
http://www.geocities.com/stmichaelsangels/
2nd - A list of Satan’s agents within and throughout our Catholic Church’s Hierarchy
http://www.crossspot.net/ldprophet/Freemasons.htm
3rd - Satan routinely practiced in the precincts of the Vatican
http://www.tldm.org/news/martin.htm
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Damien and Craig,
4th - “A GREAT CRIME has been committed against the Catholic Church and the World at large. The perpetrators of this CRIME are men who hold HIGH OFFICES in the Catholic Hierarchy; their names will be introduced in the course of this presentation.” - beginning paragraph of
‘The Devil’s Final Battle’
http://www.devilsfinalbattle.com/intro.htm
The Most Holy Theotokos, the Mother of God, the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Woman of Genesis 3:15 and Revelation 12:17 had this to say to Fr. Stephano Gobbi back on December 31, 1997
“Fight, children of the light, because the hour of MY battle has now arrived…et al”
- Fr. Joseph
Every last person currently living and alive on planet earth has a very deep and very personal VESTED INTEREST in seeing to it that the CATHOLIC CHURCH “WINS” this global Spiritual Combat and Global Spiritual World War!
There is NO PLACE to go off running to and HIDE!
And there is NO ONE ELSE who is going TO FIGHT for the survival of the entire Human Race but US, whether you are Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant or of any other religion or entirely non-religious and purely secular, pragmatic materialist, atheist, agnostic, gnostic or whatever else!
“The the All-good God will see THE DOWNFALL OF THE HUMAN RACE…”
- Fr. Joseph
“Christian Pastors, Bishops and Priests will become completely VAIN MEN, completely failing to distinquish the right-hand way from the left. (the Collegial Consecration instructed to take place by the Mother of God as Our Lady of Fatima, 1917 A.D.)
Again,
“Then the All-good God will see THE DOWNFALL OF THE HUMAN RACE…” - citing
St. Nilus - 4th Century Prophecy at
http://www.fisheaters.com/nilus.html
- Fr. Joseph
Good for Russia, someone needs to put these gays in their proper place.
Dear Stav,
Your comment should certainly be welcomed by all those who hold the Catholic faith and by this I do not mean the novus ordo catholic faith officially inaugurated in Vatican II.
Russia is a predestinate nation. It is the power coming from Heaven that is at issue here.
Our Lady of Fatima and Our Lady of Kazan (who still leads Russia to victory) are one and the same. And her words at Fatima were:
“In the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me…”
And for what purpose will the Holy Father consecrate Russia?
Because Our Lady has asked it of him
And to give Russia the unique power needed to usher in a (now) unimaginable Triumph for the Russia (of course), for the Church, for the world.
It will mean, however, that the entire Catholic hierarchy: the Holy Father and his bishops will be be publicly revealed to the enemies of the Church and the world. It is not to difficult to see what the price for this will be. But Our Lady said “in the end” they would do it. I believe this.
Dear Juan,
In the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the French Revolugion is called the Great Revolution because it inaugurated a universal Revolution that continues today in its Communist or global phase.
The first stage of the Great Revolution inaugurated 1789 was to overthrow all Catholic nation / states and establish republics. When the Revolution swept through the principalities of the Italian peninsula under Garabaldi, they took the Vatican and the See of Peter and set up their banking system over Italy. Later the Italian republic granted to the Pope and the Church the Vatican as a City State. But they are still under the Rothschild Bank
Even so, the Church was able to define the errors of the Revolution and publish them.
Pope Pius IX defined these errors in Quanta Cura and the Syllabus of Errors.
Pope Pius X ratified these infallible pronouncements in Paschendi, summing them up as Modernism - the sum of all heresies. And he decreed that there would be no quarter given with Modernism.
But what do we find with Gaudium et Spes. According to Benedict (a disciple of Karl Rahner and an architect of the Council), this document which mandates the new world order “is an effort on the part of the Church to reconcile with the new era inaugurated 1789.” This statement is actually quoted in Wikipedia.
There can be no reconciliation with the Revolutionary Era and ITS ERRORS inaugurated in 1789.
Russia will be the light to the Vatican..they know the Zionists for what they are..
An alternative to Rothchild Banking needs to be offered to the Vatican so they can get out from underneath its control…
Dear Juan,
Regarding ‘Vatican FINANCES’, please avail yourself of the on-line article here dealing with the murder of Pope John Paul I, with a special attentive eye to the subsection entitled “The Vatican Wedded to the Mafia, the Bank and the Lodge”
http://www.crc-internet.org/oct84.htm
Other pertinent and useful information that can help “color in” the Big Picture for and with our World of 2009 Anno Domini
http://www.tldm.org/news3/johnpaul1.htm
http://www.tldm.org/News6/exorcism1.htm
Ya know, it sure would be NICE FOR ONCE that people the world over, great and small, in high positions and in the lowest positions, ALL would simply ACT RESPONSIBILY and simply DO those simple tasks right in front of their noses with a degree of honesty, integrity coupled with a simple desire to do a “good job” with what they’ve been entrusted.
Is that TOO MUCH of a thing to ask for or expect from others?
- Fr. Joseph
Sorry for the typo
The Murder of John Paul I
http://www.tldm.org/johnpaulI.htm
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Amanda Rogers,
A donation may be sent safely to:
Brother Nathanael Kapner; PO Box 1242; Frisco CO; 80443.
Thank you dear Amanda!
+Brother Nathanael
This Is From “Mack” Who Had Trouble With The Anti-Spam Button:
————————————
Dear Brother Nathanael,
I attempted to post this on your article regarding the Mayor of Moscow blocking the Gay Parade. I kept getting some kind of error message. The text follows my brief note. Thank you ever so much for your work against the Zionist New World Order. May God bless you in your work.
Benny 16 is but another Zionist shill, along with John 23, Paul 6 (rumoured to be of Jewish lineage), John Paul 1, and John Paul 2 the Great Apostate (most likely Jewish).
The Popes up to Pope Pius XII have repeatedly condemned Zionism. Pope St. Pius X was once approached by the founder of the Zionist movement, Theodore Hertzel.
Mr. Hertzel wanted the Pope to recoginise the state of Israel in the Holy Land. Pope St. Pius X told him, “Since the Jews do not recognise Our Lord Jesus Christ as the Messiah, We cannot recognise the state of Israel. If the Jews should choose to move to the Holy Land and embrace the Catholic Faith, We will have priests there ready to baptise them.”
What a difference between St. Pius X (1903 - 1914) and the Vatican II apostate “Popes” (1958 - Present), who call the Jews our “Elder Brothers in the Faith” and pray for them to “Grow in the love of God and Faithfulness to His Covenant.”
Let us pray for the faithless Jews, that God may remove the veil from their hearts, so that they too may acknowledge Our Lord Jesus Christ.
Almighty and eternal God, who drivest not away from Thy mercy even the faithless Jews: hear our prayers, which we offer for the blindness of that people: that acknowledging the light of Thy truth, which is Christ, they may be delivered from their darkness. Through the same Lord Jesus Christ Thy Son, in the unity of the Holy Ghost, for all ages of ages. Amen.
-Traditional Prayer for the Jews on Good Friday
In The Risen Christ,
Mack
Yes, Russia is CORRECT and just to stop the Gay Movement is Russia.
The bastard state of Israel is similiarily filled with homosexuals.
Scripture Condemns the gay lifestyle, especially in the Holy Land.
Almighty Yahweh has now arrayed a FORCE against Israel (which has become the new land of Sodom): Iranian nuclear missiles, which may annihilate the jewish state, as punishment for her SINS.
see the link: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/05/2009520153818107760.html
Jonah
Colorado USA
http://jonah.50megs.com
Actually Fr. Joe, the link was wrong again, here’s the correct page I think you were trying to show:
http://www.tldm.org/news3/johnpaulI.htm
What just happened in Russia would have normal for the police in any country of the world just a few short years ago.
May the good old days come back soon!
Just read the article and I don’t understand why you guys constantly need to hate everyone who doesn’t follow your views. So ok some people don’t follow your views? BIG DEAL, just ignore it, if your religion is right then it won’t be your problem.
Just let people live their lives the way they want. If they listen to your prayers and like the idea of God (not the hate ideas you guys preach, the actual bible/God) then great for them but if they don’t, just seriously back off.
Putin busting Russian Jewish oligarch thieves? WOW!!!
http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:p4JBp-Po5TUJ:www.asiaobserver.com/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,453/id,8618/catid,22/func,fb_pdf/+%22peter+orszag%22+%2B+%22iceland%22&cd=29&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
This is off topic, but do you think parents should be able to refuse/decide standard medical treatment if they believe otherwise for their children?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090520/ap_on_re_us/us_forced_chemo
The Judge in this case was a Jew.
Thank you Zoobie!
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Billy Smith,
Just let people live their lives the way they want.
I suppose that is meant to mean every prison throughout our world ought to immediately release their prisoners.
There is a Moral Order for the Human Race by which our God and Creator expects all of us to live by.
If not, welcome to ‘Hell On Earth’.
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Billy Smith,
The are what are called ‘Acts of Mercy’ in the teachings of the Christian Church. There are ‘coporeal’ acts of mercy such as feeding the hungry, educating the ignorant and clothing the naked.
And there are ’spiritual’ acts of mercy such as warning sinners. For there is a Moral Order according to the Christian God and there are blessings as well as consequences for either following or rejecting that Divine Moral Order.
- Fr. Joseph
There is only ONE HOLY FATHER and HE is in Heaven.
There is only ONE FULL OF GRACE and that is GOD in Heaven.
It is not Mary appearing in such places as Lourdes, Fatima or any other. Those are the spirits of “devils working miracles:- Revelation 16:4.
“Come out of her, my people that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues”!!!
Dearest Enya,
The Holy Spirit will come upon you, the Angel answered, and the Power of the Most High will cover you with Its Shadow. - Luke 1:35
Being COVERED with the Divine Power of our FATHER in Heaven is being “Full of Grace”.
If but only the rest of us members of the Human Race could but obtain a sliver of the amount of Divine Grace granted the Blessed Virgin Mary, we’d ALL be healed - and our World would be healed.
- Fr. Joseph
And dear Billy Smith,
The Ten Commandments is God’s Own Divine Wisdom revealed to Mankind as to HOW to live these lives of ours to their fullest.
John Lennon had a song entitled ‘Imagine’ wherein he does not hold Revealed Religion in very high regard.
But anyways, you can still ‘Imagine’ something on/about the 10 Commandments.
The Commandment is ‘Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor’.
Now ‘Imagine’ the false witness vs. Iraq having weapons of mass destruction and was responsible for the 9-11-2001 “Arab” terrorist attacks NEVER having happened.
What type of ‘World’ would you and the rest of us all have?
The Commandment is ‘Thou shalt not commit adultery’.
Now ‘Imagine’ EVERYONE obeying that. How many women would be spared a life being sold into prostution? How many women would not be raped nor have to life in the fear of rape? How many women would live lives in familial security with their husbands, children and families?
The Commandment is ‘Thou shalt not kill.’
Now ‘Imagine’ all the families who have lost their loved ones to senseless crimes of murder, etc?
I think you can ‘Imagine’ what sort of World we’d ALL be able to live in IF everyone simply obeyed the 10 Commandments of God.
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Br. Nathanael and RZN Christians,
I appreciate the common sense of the Russian state in upholding standards of public morality which were normative until recently. I also appreciate that they have thus far foiled Zionist attempts to destabilize the region they have military influence within. Indeed, in all ways I appreciate the Russian nation.
However, I too cannot view Russia without a benevolent skepticism, not wanting to be deluded yet again by the smoke and mirrors. I cautiously hope Russia is experiencing a renewal of Christian awareness after the awful era of state-imposed secularism. It would be too soon to judge Russia to be spotless and without Luciferic intrigue inside the halls of power, at least from a standpoint of reasonable prudence. However, Russia’s military has been named by some former Illuminati as a veritable case study in mind-control science.
There are also hereditary power structures which stubbornly resist any attempt for outsiders to comprehend their work. Whether this be for good or bad will eventually be seen, and in the case of hereditary Orthodox Christianity it is positively hopeful the way it has hung on and continued despite martyrdom and state oppression.
What I would like is for a knowledgeable person to make an “apples-to-apples” comparison of the state of genuine personal liberty under the current Russian central government, as compared with how it is here in America. For example: What are personal gun rights in Russia? What kind of taxes do people pay? Are there things you can say here that will land you in a bottomless pit there, and what about the other way around?
I would need someone to describe the differences in a factual way to understand whether there is much difference, or whether man’s condition is essentially the same under either system. By the way, their media sure is titty-dominated, which really does little to assure me that it isn’t Jew run as well.
The Peace of Christ be With You.
Dear Father Joseph,
I’ve already downloaded link contents and reading ‘The Murder of Pope John Paul I”.
I fully appreciate your help.
I’ll like to ask some very basic questions on their doctrinal differences when compared with Roman Catholic Church.
To be more precise,those whom advocate the belief in a “rapture”, sola scripture and salvation by faith alone.
This is a serious problem here in Brazil.
I’m surrounded by these people.
Regards, Juan
Dear Lynda,
So I understand that French Revolution, and consequently Illuminati and Freemasons are behind Garibaldi and they encompassed the Vatican finances.
I remember something regarding Pope Pio IX in 1845 being forced to flee Rome. Something to do with this?
Anyway 1822 is given by many as the year Rothschild Banks started taking care of Vatican’s finances.
Which, if true, puts the Church in direct and heretical contact with the Jews, intermingling their financial affairs with those of the speculative European bankers.
I doubt somebody have examined any documents because I guess nothing can be found in the Rothschild’s Public Library
and much less so on the Vatican’s side dealing with this subject.
Juan
Dear Father Joseph,
Somwhere got lost the subject of my inquire:
“Evangelical Churches”
Juan
Dear Juan,
For those educated (ed-jew-macated) in public school, the national history begins with the Republic. Usually the scenario is the people rose up and took power away from the Church (who persecuted Jews, cracked the heads of the peasants and kept them superstitious, poor and backward) and the Aristocracy (as a the class of parasites on the people). As a product of this 12 years of this crap ed-jew-macated in the U.S.A. I believed all this until about my senior year in high school.
That year I traveled to Mexico and I read the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion.
Reading and thinking about the latter can undo 12 years of republican history and soc-ed public education in a matter of weeks.
The history of the French Revolution is in the library, in the encyclopedias and in primary documents and Church history. Multiple, congruent historical evidence.
Above all it is is the Master Plan - the Protocols.
The great school for the Revolutionary Era was laid at the Rue de Cadet about 5 years before 1789 - this was the Grand Orient Lodge, of which all the great Masonic Commanders and Revolutionary Leaders studied praxis of the Revolution inaugurated in France 1789.
These revolutions to overthrow the power of the Church in every Catholic nation state were financed by the House of Rothschild, led by Masonry and fought with mercenaries and such cadres of useful idiots as could be recruited from the nation.
The blood bath in France 1789 is recorded, but you will certainly not be learning about this in any public school because it would contradict the people rose up and overthrew their corrupt leaders (and I do not doubt many were) scenario.
In Brittainy and the Vendee entire peasant populations were massacred wholesale, every parish church desecrated, nuns stripped naked and driven through the street with whips and nailed to barns: cruelty and atrocities that defy imagination. The Catholic nations were put to the sword.
There is no temporal power to protect the hierarchy of the Church. And this was the entire point of the Revolutionary Era 1789-
May I ask you Catholics who post here a serious question?
Can you explain to me why your branch of Christianity(Catholism) contradicts everything the Bible proclaims. For example the Ten Commandments says THOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME.
Catholics worship hundreds of “Saints” and idolize them, another anti-Biblical stance is THOU SHALL NOT MAKE UNTO THEE ANY GRAVEN IMAGE. Catholics seem to worship many statues of Saints and Mary.
The Bible says anyone adding or deleting words in the Bible will be utterly destroyed by God, the Catholic Bible AS COMPARED TO THE ONE AND ONLY KING JAMES BIBLE HAS THOUSANDS OF WORDS ADDED THAT ARE NOT FROM GOD.
I used to be a Catholic until I found the real truth that God does not inhabit man made temples or religions, and neither does Jesus, therefore the Worlds Religion Structure as it currently exist is Satanically controlled. God exist in our hearts and minds thru his SUPERNATURAL SPIRIT, ONLY THRU ACCEPTANCE OF JESUS CHRIST AS PERSONAL SAVIOR CAN ANYONE COME TO KNOW GOD SPIRITUALLY.
That is what the Bible, Gods word says.
Dear Golden Nugget,
In Orthodox Christianity, icons are never worshipped, but they are honored or venerated. In the Catholic Church, they have the tradition of statuary, and other religious art traditions more expansive than Eastern Orthodoxy, but the same principles apply.
Worship is for the Lord God, and He alone. Neither Orthodox nor Catholics mistake the holy saints and martyrs for the Uncreated God.
The Second Commandment says, “you shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth” and call it a god as Aaron did with the Golden Calf. The Golden Calf represented the Egyptian goddess Hathor, I believe. The warning here is that we are not to image things which are limited to heaven and therefore unseen, and 2) we never bow down to or worship created, earthly things such as the Golden Calf. Does this condemn all images in worship? The Bible speaks for itself, and the answer is no.
Just five chapters after the giving of the Ten Commandments, God, as recorded in Exodus 25, gives His divine blueprint for the tabernacle. Specifically in verses 19 and 20, he commands carved and gilded images of cherubim to be placed above the mercy seat. Also, God promises to meet and speak with us through this imagery! (Ex. 25:22). It is not true imagery which is condemned in Scripture, but false imagery concerning false gods.
In Exodus 26:1, Israel was commanded in no uncertain terms to weave “artistic designs of cherubim” into the tabernacle curtains. Are these images? Absolutely. And they are images which God commanded to be made. Solomon’s Temple was decorated in all kinds of imagery…pomegranates, palm trees, statuary like the brazen bulls holding the brass lake.
From the beginning the Church has made images of heavenly things BROUGHT TO EARTH: Christ Himself, the Cross (Gal 6:14), and the saints of God (Heb. 11; 12). Worship is reserved for the Holy Trinity alone. But we honor the great men and women of the Faith by remembering them in the Church.
Dear Golden Nugget,
The Scriptures themselves call us to honor other Christians, both the living and the departed.
a) In Acts 28:10, Saint Luke writes, “They also honored us [the apostolic band] in many ways.” The biblical injunction concerning Mary, “All generations will call me blessed” (Luke 1:48), is an example of how we are to honor the saints for all time (see also Heb. 11:4-40).
b) We are to honor all believers and true authorities, not just departed ones. This is why St. Paul exhorts us to honor one another (1 Tim. 5:17), and why St. Peter tells husbands to honor their wives (1 Pet. 3:7). We are even called to obey and honor our civil authorities (Rom. 13:1-7).
c.) In Orthodox and Catholic worship, we see pictures or icons of the believers of history all around us. This is, in part, how we honor our forerunners in the Faith. In Hebrews 12:22-24 we read that in worship we join with the heavenly throng to praise and worship God. We come to join “an innumerable company of angels”, the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven,” and the “spirits of just men made perfect” while on earth. And as “in spirit and in truth” we join these angelic and redeemed heroes of the Faith, we do give them proper honor, as the Scripture teaches.
d) Modern Christianity tends to give notice primarily to living heroes—often newly believing athletes, beauty queens, and political figures. But throughout Church history, honor went to those who had finished the race (1 Cor 9:24-27), not to those who have merely begun or who are still on the earthly track (Gal. 5:7). And these saints of old are not dead, but alive in Christ forever!
One last thing, dear Golden Nugget,
The Church sees the Scriptures as inspired and authoritative Holy Tradition: the Word of God. It is crucial to understand how the word “tradition” is used in the New Testament, which condemns the tradition of men but calls us to follow Apostolic or Holy Tradition.
Tradition of men: First of all, Jesus warned against holding to the “tradition of men” and “your tradition” in the strongest possible terms (Mark 7:6-16). All Christians agree: the Bible says “no” to man-made religious teachings and traditions.
Secondly, Saint Paul warns in Colossians 2:8: “Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
Holy Tradition: In distinction to the tradition of men, the Bible calls us to obey tradition which has God as its source. In 2 Thess 2:15, Saint Paul writes, “Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.” In contrast to man-made tradition, Apostolic Tradition is our foundation in the Church.
Further, in 2 Thess 3:6 we read, “But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us”. Here again, we are dealing with Apostolic Tradition, the tradition which God planted in the Church.
Biblically and historically, true worship has consistently been liturgical. “Spontaneous” worship is an innovation of the last 150 years or so.
Liturgical worship, written prayers (the Psalms), and feast days were the norm throughout the history of Israel (Ex. 23:14-19; 24:1, 2).
The worship of heaven is liturgical (Is 6:1-9; Heb 8:1-3; Rev 4).
The foundations of liturgical worship in the Church are apparent in the NT. The most oft-repeated prayer of the Church is there (Matt. 6:9-13). The words we say at baptism are there (Matt. 28:19). The words spoken at Holy Communion are there, with Saint Paul repeating Jesus’ words (1 Cor 11:23-26). Further the believers in Acts 13:2, about 49 CE, were seen in a liturgical service to the Lord: “As they ministered [Gk. leitourgouaton, the root word for ‘liturgy’] to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said…”. Note, too, in this passage that the Holy Spirit speaks to us during liturgical worship. Thus praise to God must never become dead form, but rather living worship, “in spirit and truth” (John 4:23, 24).
Some Protestant groups have reacted against Rome for whatever reasons by dismissing liturgical worship (though everyone has patterned worship, “spontaneous” or not!). But the Bible and Church history are clear: liturgical worship is the norm for the people of God. Documents like the Didache (AD 70) and the writings of St. Justin Martyr (AD 150), and Hippolytus (early 200’s) all show that the worship of the early Church was, without exception, communal and liturgical, and this is a very large and integral part of Apostolic Tradition and Christian spirituality.
Good for Putin!!
It’s about time some one puts a halt on this sick, repulsive, perverted people. They don’t like Christianity pushed in their face, well I don’t like their wickedness pushed in mine.
Wish Putin would come to America and show our cowardly so called leaders how to stand up for whats right!
Want to see how gay men really are? Go to craigslist and look up “men seeking men”. Filthy scum.
Hurray for Mr. Putin!!!
THATS the kind of leadership WE need here in America!!! How about We all get together, en masse, and relocate to RUSSIA!?
It seems to be THE last safe haven for good, White, Christian PEOPLE!!! Promise to help me and my Family to get there, help us out for a while and teach us the language and customs, and WE WILL GLADLY EMIGRATE TO THE GREAT LAND OF RUSSIA!
Putin and Medvedev are AWESOME leaders! God BLESS THEM!
My dear Golden Nugget,
Please do take the time to read KathJuliane’s reply to you. All good factual information.
Some more vital information for you. The books, the writings, you have in your Bible are there on account of the Bishops of the Church at the Church Councils of Carthage and Hippo (circa 397 and 400 AD).
Martin Luther is often referred to as the ‘Father of the Protestant Reformation’.
Luther’s Bible removed the book of Hebrews, the letter of St. James as well as the Book of Revelation from ‘his’ Bible. Additionally, Luther added the word ‘alone’ into the epistle of St. Paul to the Romans (if my memory serves me correctly) in order to promote and justify his doctrinal position that we are “saved by faith ALONE”.
If your congregation’s pastor/preacher asserts that he is a bible-believing Protestant, then ask him why is it that so many Protestant sects such as Pastor Hagee make such use of the ‘Book of Revelation’ to go on and on about ‘The Rapture’ when the Father of the Protestant Reformation THREW OUT the Book of Revelation!
Is your pastor/preacher a CATHOLIC then? Adhering to the Bishops of the Catholic Church Councils of Carthage and Hippo and the CATHOLIC Canon of ‘The Bible’!
Ask your pastor/preacher to MAKE UP HIS or HER MIND!
If the Father of the Protestant Reformation is CORRECT, stop reading and using the Book of Revelation.
If the Bishops of the Catholic Church are CORRECT, then get yourself and your pastor BACK to the Sacraments of the Church which GAVE you and your pastor/preacher ‘The Bible’.
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Juan,
In many ways, the Protestant Reformation was to the Western-Latin Church very much what the Bolshevik Revolution was to the Eastern Orthodox Church. The results on the morality of the affected citizens as well as on the holdings and physical assets of the Church - both East and West - were very much the same.
The two “pillars” upon which the entire Protestant Reformation rests are 1) ‘Sola Scriptura’ translated means ‘The Bible Alone’ and 2) ‘Sola Fide’ translated means ‘(Saved by) Faith Alone’.
The many and varied protestant sects you have now in Brazil are the end result of no recognized authority in and/or for the Church. Anybody who wants to be a ‘pastor’ or ‘preacher’ can go off and buy a copy of the Bible and start his, her or their church. Whether or not that ‘church’ teaches and preaches what the Lord’s Apostles taught and preached is an entirely different matter.
Not much one can do about all of this now as the ‘Peace of Augsburg’ pretty much granted license to governments, regional leaders and titled nobility to pretty much decide what sort of variants on Christianity they would adopt. When those presecuted by the English King’s Church of England had enough, they fled to the American colonies.
Without a recognized authority in the Church, there is no end to the types of variations, heresies and utterly un-Christian teachings in matters of the Faith, doctrines and morals that can be generated and made manifest.
I cannot recall the research reference at the moment, but that source made a count of the number of protestant denominations in existance in our world. The number was around 27,000.
‘Sola Scriptura’ coupled with ‘Sola Fide’ pretty much make it possible for there to be as many bible-believing denominations as there are people who can read ‘The Bible’ for themselves.
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Lynda,
I got the point , and I’m more or less aware of French revolution whereabouts.
So the conclusion here is that 1822 is not certainly relevant, because Rothschild is behind the whole process from the beginning.
In the following link,
http://osdir.com/ml/culture.templar.rosemont/2004-05/msg00036.html
We read:
….”The Italian patriots Garibaldi, Mazzini and Cavour revived the secret society after 1830, and its members were again found to be ready for any sacrifice for republicanism and rule by the Carbonari. The effect which they had upon the world was considerable: and it continued to be so. For fifty years they had fought in civil war; they spread to many other lands, including Germany, where they were responsible for the Totenbund (the Death League) which was dedicated to assassinating tyrants.)
- Arkon Daraul, Secret Societies
Twelve years later, in 1860, a young man named Giusseppe Garibaldi invaded the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies and conquered them with his army that became known as `The One Thousand’. No one expected him to win, his army was made up of mostly teenagers and very young men, far too young everyone believed. But win he did! With the assistance of
some rebels hidden in the hills, Garibaldi accomplished the impossible!
To this day, his victory is considered nothing short of a miracle and a testament to his courage and bravery. Giusseppe Garibaldi became a true Italian hero. The question that has to be asked is: How? How could Garibaldi achieve the impossible? The answer can now be traced to two reasons: (1) The Freemasons; and (2) the Mafia!
When Garibaldi landed at Marsala with his famous `Thousand’ on the 11 May, he found everything ready. Why? First, because the political power and influence of the Freemasons was supporting his quest: Count Camillo Cavour, Prime Minister of King Victor Emmanuel of Piedmont, and Giusseppe Mazzini, had agreed that the destruction of the papacy was the key to the unification of Italy. And believe it or not, Cavour, Mazzini and Garibaldi were Grand Masters in the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rites of Freemasonry!
While exiled in England, Guisseppe Mazzini, the Italian revolutionary, had become friends with one of the most powerful Freemasons in America! United by their common hatred of the Church, the two became fast friends. Mazzini was impressed by the power and influence wielded by Pike, while Pike was impressed by both Mazzini’s passionate fervor and his very skilled abilities in putting words to paper.
And what then was the `Order of the New and Reformed Palladian Rite’? On September 20, 1870, Albert Pike, the most powerful Grand Mason in the United States, and his `friend’, Giusseppe Mazzini, a Grand Mason in his own right, agreed to form a Masonic order which
was to be higher in rank and greater in power than any other Masonic Lodge?in the world!
This new lodge was to be comprised of nothing but the most exemplary Thirty-Third Degree Masons from the Lodges around the world. These `cream of the crop’ Grand Masons would join the `super-secret Ultra-Freemasons Society’ by invitation only. All members in the `Palladian Order’ had to keep their membership a secret on pain of immediate death. There would be no trial and no deliberation, death was quick and merciless.
So secret was the new Lodge that, unless they were members, not even the upper level Freemasons of the other Lodges knew about the `Palladian Order’. As testament to their secrecy, in a book called CYCLOPAEDIA OF FRATERNITIES, the `Palladian Order’ is described as “little known as the number of its members is strictly limited and the deepest secrecy
surrounds all its deliberations.”
Mazzini was, after the formation of the new `Palladian Order’ in 1870, one of the two most powerful Freemasons in the entire world! And it was by no accident. Mazzini had understood that the Freemasons were a powerful influence in the world, but he often saw them fighting and divided. Mazzini believed that by uniting the most powerful Freemasons of the world into one group, they could, essentially, control the events of the world.
And the central, recurrent, all important point of these people is “the hatred against the Roman Catholic Church”, something easily overlooked by modern critics and enemies of the Church.
Yes, we can see the immense power of FREEMASONRY.
And in the context of modern RUSSIA the question remains,
Is FREEMASONRY active there?
Juan
Dear Juan
For your information
‘End Times’
http://www.fisheaters.com/endtimes.html
‘Dispensationalism, Israel & the Church’
http://www.fisheaters.com/dispensationalism.html
- Fr.Joseph
Dear KathJuliane,
I learn a lot with you!
Have to find time to read all this material.
I asked Father Joseph on “evangelic Churches” and realized that you also have dealt with the subject before.
Juan
Dear All, and golden*nugget,
I realize this is almost completely off topic, but consider that the Russians, share an Orthodox Christian tradition, and therefore, an understanding of Orthodoxy, its complete adherence to holy tradition is important, to understand Russia also.
In addition to the pretty comprehensive replies of KathJuliane, let me add a few things:
I will answer to your message out of order.
You say:
The Bible says anyone adding or deleting words in the Bible will be utterly destroyed by God, the Catholic Bible AS COMPARED TO THE ONE AND ONLY KING JAMES BIBLE HAS THOUSANDS OF WORDS ADDED THAT ARE NOT FROM GOD.
Be advised, that it is the western world, beginning with the USA that is on the brink of destruction. The orthodox countries, while sometimes quite poor and facing other difficulties and problems, are today not on the brink of destruction but as we see in Russia, probably gaining even more power.This may suggest that it is the western world that in its majority are changing the words of the bible.
I assume that you are Protestant in the wide sense of the word. You need to be aware, first of all, that even the King James version of the Bible, is slightly diluted as compared to the Greek Original. Thus, be careful, even when you read the King James version. Words, translated from the Greek to English, may be “sufficient” but in many cases they also loose their complete POWER that they had in the Greek.
There are just too many examples of this, but for example, take the first lines of Johns Gospel:
“In the beginning was the word.”
The Greek, does not say this. It says:
“En arxi in o logos”
“In the beginning was the Logos”
In Greek, the word “Logos” as used in this sentence, does not only mean “word”. It actually has the following additional meanings:
1) Logic (as in reasoning)
2) Balance (as balance between numbers in mathematics)
3) the Reason (as in the Cause of things)
These three meaning of the word, are in
addition to the meaning used int he KJV which is “Speech or Spoken Word”.
As you may be able to see, the KJV, while not blatantly changing the meaning of the gospel, like other versions are doing, is still lacking in depth.
The line above, “In the beginning was the Word” in its Greek original, has sparked considerable Theological Analysis, some of which is responsible for the Orthodox Version of the Christian Faith.
Thus, before I continue, be careful, when you say that the Old churches, have it wrong, because it does not say it in the Bible. It may be in the bible, but you may not be able to see it in the context of your sources.
Secondly, I cannot speak for the Catholic version of the bible, because:
1) According to the Orthodox, doctrinally they are just as astray as the protestants are. In different ways, but the end result is the same.
2) I simply do not now what version of the bible they use and especially what versions they use in non Latin originated countries. Thus i will not comment on that.
You say:
Can you explain to me why your branch of Christianity(Catholism) contradicts everything the Bible proclaims.
As I have proven above, the matter of fact is, that your own version of Christianity is more likely to contradict many parts of the Bible. If I knew what your particular brand is, I might have been able to point 1-2 out for you.
You Say:
For example the Ten Commandments says THOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME.
True, and assure you that the Orthodox do not have any other Gods other than the true God. Catholics also do not worship any other God, regardless of the rest of their doctrinal errors.
You say:
Catholics worship hundreds of “Saints” and idolize them, another anti-Biblical stance is THOU SHALL NOT MAKE UNTO THEE ANY GRAVEN IMAGE. Catholics seem to worship many statues of Saints and Mary.
You last statement says it all, you say “seem to worship”. Yes, that’s exactly what it may seem to you, a protestant, who has shed the Old and First tradition out of Christianity. The veneration, kisses and supplications to the saints and the Theotokos (Mary) are NOT worship. They are expressions of honor and requests for intercession.
And this practice of request of intercessions and honoring the Saints, is COMPLETELY based on Biblical understanding. Most especially, in the case of the Virgin Mary Theotokos, it has been demonstrated beyond any doubt in the bible that She can intercede to Jesus Christ her Son, for us, and “convince” Jesus Christ to hasten his help and mercy to us. I can provide example if you want, but the the sake of this post I will try to keep it short. The same exact thing is also true for the Saints.
You say:
I used to be a Catholic until I found the real truth that God does not inhabit man made temples or religions, and neither does Jesus, therefore the Worlds Religion Structure as it currently exist is Satanically controlled. God exist in our hearts and minds thru his SUPERNATURAL SPIRIT, ONLY THRU ACCEPTANCE OF JESUS CHRIST AS PERSONAL SAVIOR CAN ANYONE COME TO KNOW GOD SPIRITUALLY.
God is everywhere, including Churches and temples. In fact, one specific mention in Scripture, is:
“Where two or three (or more) are gathered in my name, there I am also”
This is not to say that God is not everywhere, but rather, here we see that the emphasis is applied on the social aspect of gathering in His name. The purpose of this, is for us to see that we are close to God, not only in a personal way, but also in the sense that within the Church we are close to God. This implies, love not only for God, but also for our fellow man. By Jesus’ words the ten commandments, can be condensed into just two:
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.” This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: “You shall love your neighbour as yourself.” On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.’
—Matthew 22:34-40
Thus one can see, that knowing God and following his commandments, is , on the one hand a personal connection with Christ, but on the other hand, it is a personal connection with our fellow man. And that is the core aspect of why we must gather together to worship.
More on this same subject, I think it is important to mention that if anyone, Orthodox, Catholic or otherwise, considers, Icons, statues or anything else to be idols, or if they think A Saint or the Most Holy Mary the Theotokos to be more than human or view them as a God, they are plain wrong, and regardless of your observations, the Orthodox (and I am assuming the Catholics) view this as a sin and a major heretical view. And i will not lie, some people who belong to these churches, may have these ill-conceived ideas, but that is simply due to ignorance. It is not our faith.
Finally, Let me point out, that the Catholics, who have some serious doctrinal errors, have attached a somewhat elevated importance to Mary, exactly due to these doctrinal errors. It will take to long to explain here, but their Filioque addition to the original Creed, has caused a theological breakdown of the balance of worship towards God the Trinity, which has been expressed by an over the appropriate “worship” of Mary.
The same spirit, has caused them to express their representations of the Saints , Jesus Christ and His Mother and Gos, to also be over the top. These Catholic representations take the form of statues and Paintings (as opposed to icons in Orthodoxy) and are borderline against the spirit of Christianity.
It is important to know, that for anyone who is somehow disgruntled with their form of Christianity, they should look into Orthodoxy, which continues in the tradition and the original Church, without change and without false doctrines. This involves knowing WHO wrote and canonized the bible, WHO established the basic faith dogmas and why. Any honest search of these things, will lead you invariably to Orthodoxy.
Stav
Dear Michael K.
In reply to your post, I have the following to say:
It would be of course completely naive to think that Russia as a whole is completely free of Evils, such as Masonry, Zionist control etc. etc.
However, the track record of their recent time and especially since the arrival of Mr Putin, is one that suggests a very strong and decisive return to Russia’s traditional Orthodox Christian values.
Countless actions and decisions taken by Putin’s Government, are clearly:
1) anti-Zionist
2) truly caring or their own people, and the well being (financial and otherwise)
3) Following indisputable logic (such as the statement that they want Russia to Grow and not to shrink, in the context of homosexuality)
4) Openly state that they are an Orthodox Christian Country and they wish it to remain as such.
There are more points to this, but simply the public expression of these three, show a determination and without shame intention to let the world know where they stand. And we also know that they can uphold these decisions in forceful ways. Thus, one can take for granted that fact that Russia, with all its potential faults will fight for these points.
Stav
Dear Golden Nugget,
O.K. , so first of all, King James was a Catholic.
James Charles Stuart was the son of Mary, Queen of Scots, and her second husband, Henry Stuart, Duke of Albany, commonly known as Lord Darnley. He was a descendant of Henry VII through his great-grandmother Margaret Tudor, elder sister of Henry VIII.[9] Mary’s rule over Scotland was insecure, for both she and her husband, being Roman Catholics, faced a rebellion by the Protestant population. Lord Darnley secretly allied himself with the rebels and murdered the Queen’s private secretary, David Rizzio.[10]
Dear Golden Nugget,
Second, perhaps you are aware that the claims that the KJV supercedes other bibles are based upon the pagan Grail cult. If you do not understand, read the following excerpt from a Grail cult website.
The “Fisher King” lineage is that of the post-Atlantean descendants of the union of The Sons Of God and the daughters of men, the Nefilim. This cult views the royal blood of the Grail lineage to be the determining factor in legitimacy of rulership.
Read the Grail cult view of the KJV:
“What makes the Holy Bible holy?
“The Grail romances claim that there exists in the world an alternative priesthood based upon a sacred lineage. The “Fisher King” or the “Grail King”, as it is in some versions, is depicted as a royal personage, yet a king to be distinguished from the current ruler of the realm. The romances are generally set in the time of King Arthur. He is the ruler of the realm; yet the Fisher King is also a ruler in distinction from Arthur. In some sense, Arthur’s authority is dependent upon the Fisher King; for it is the Fisher King who is in possession of the Holy Grail.
“The Grail castle is an ethereal, mysterious place, which can disappear from ordinary human vision. In this we find the Celtic belief of parallel worlds or dimensions which are connected with each other in some fundamental way: either through ritual unification or angelic-type emissaries. Thus, we might find that the Grail Castle can be interpreted as a spiritual counterpart of Camelot and the Fisher King of Arthur.
“The Fisher King is wounded in the private parts. He cannot be healed by the Church’s Eucharist. The Eucharist sustains him, but it does not heal him. He cannot be healed until someone else who shares his lineage is worthy to become his successor and possess the Holy Grail.
“In this we can sense Arthur’s dilemma. His was a crisis of succession. But it was more than a crisis of kingship. It was a crisis of federal headship. In the Grail romances the ancient view of the king as priest and sacrifice still lingers. This priesthood is one patterned after the Melchisedecal priesthood of the Davidic Covenant which was confirmed in Jesus Christ. Melchisdec was a father to his people and became a father to Abraham (Genesis 14; Psalm 110:4; Hebrews 7). This spiritual connection is why in the Grail stories the realm is afflicted with its king and why the land is turning into a haunt of ruin, unless the king can find a worthy successor. The weal of the realm depends upon the integrity of its king-priest.
“In Grail theology the priest of the established Church can never be a federal head of the people, because he is not organically connected to the people. Nor does he share in a sacred lineage, a lineage which organically connects him to the Davidic Covenant (2 Samuel 7). He claims an Apostolic succession, which is valid in terms of ministry, but not headship. He cannot represent the people because he is not one with the people.
“King David was a federal head. He had standing to represent the people in a priestly way. He bore their sins and they bore the consequences of his sins (2 Samuel 24). It was so with his heirs. So it was with Jesus Christ.
“Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
- Hebrews 2:17-18
“The Atonement of Jesus Christ resolved the issue of sin once and for all (Hebrews 7:24-25). He is the Savior of the world. Rulers do not bear the kind of burdens they once bore. They are vicegerents of Christ’s kingdom.
“Yet, the Covenant continues and so does the Covenant line in the Desposyni. The Messianic kingdom is mediated through them, like it was through the Fisher King. Rulers who are not in communion with the Desposyni risk Divine displeasure. Without the Desposyni, there is no Holy Grail, there is no true Eucharist, and there is no healing for the land. When fellowship is restored, then the land flourishes.
“The Bible is holy, not because it was written by holy men. Holy men have written many things not found in the Bible. Nor is it holy because its message is holy. There are many holy things Jesus taught which are not found in the Bible, either (John 21:25). It is holy because it is the Book of the Covenant. And every translation thereof is holy, as well.
“The King James Version, also called “The Authorized Version”, is a Holy Bible. It contains many flaws. It is not a perfect text. Accuracy is not what gives it its authority.
“The authority of the King James Bible does not rest upon whether King James I was a good king. There are some who argue that he was a bad king.
“The authority of the “The Authorized Bible” rests upon two pillars:
“First, it was a Bible “authorized”, not by a committee, not by a rogue priesthood, but by a Grail King. King James I was a Stuart which finds a lineage with sacred roots.
“Second, it was a Bible of the Covenant. During the time of the Stuart dynasty, the peoples of the British Isles publicly covenanted together to become a Christian people and to be ruled by Christian laws.
“Thus, the King James Bible, unlike the Geneva Bible, the Vulgate Bible or any other Bible at that time, was a Covenant Bible vouchsafed by a representative of the Grail family. For that reason, it was the most blest Bible in Christian history.
“Our modern Bibles are created by committees that carve the text like a cadaver in a laboratory. There is no life in them. Research justifies the study of ancient texts for clarification. The Septuagint was the Bible of the Early Church. So was the Peshitta, translated in recent years into English by George Lamsa (and called “The Lamsa Bible”). These are examples of “Received Texts”. The King James Bible is more than a Received Test. It is the Bible of the Covenant - at least for those nations once ruled by the British Crown - and until the Desposyni sanction a new Bible, it remains the only Bible for the government of the Church.”
So, Golden Nugget, do you rest your faith upon the Apostolic succession and the Holy Ghost to tell you the true story? Or do you prefer to give all scriptural authority to the descendants of fallen angels?
Dear father Joseph
My interest in Evangelic churches has the following reasons:
1-They occupied immensely important space left by Roman Catholic Church.
2-There is a pronounced interest in the people on mystical (esoteric) experience.
3-High percentage of evangelics come from fringe African cults, like macumba, candomble, umbanda, and the so called scientific spiritual groups like Allan Kardec’s and many others and is widely spread among all social classes and races.
4-They are very badly indoctrinated, with gross distortions, especially regarding the Roman Catholic Church.
5-I’m aware of many historical heresies now that am reading the Fathers of The Church and seems that “there is nothing new under the sun” but realize that everyday appears a new interpretation of Scripture and accordingly a new sect.
6-I believe that many in this sects really adores Jesus Christ and are willingly searching for their salvation.
7-There is a strong financial commitment in these churches, insistently asking for tithes even during the celebration of the “cult ”. Curious liturgy that conditions salvation to monetary collaboration!
8-There are all the mayor denominations mostly from the United States, but there are many locals.
9-Their celebrations are a mix of exorcism with much music and singing (local folklore included) and the worst is a heavy reliance on a Jewish Old Testament ,I mean a favorable vision of Israel with much of the decoration you will find in a filthy synagogue (Menorahs, arks of the covenant, even, unbelievable the national State of Israel flag displayed behind the “altar”) .
10-Most of the so called “pastors” are self taught people, there are “seminaries” for all tastes from correspondence courses to 4 years university theology degrees.
11-There is a conception among the pastors that they can freely interpret the Bible. One of these the other day confided that he do not believe in the Trinity…
12-All of them condemn us Roman Catholics for being “Maristas” and being deeply devoted to The Sacred Virgin Mary.
13-As somebody stated above, they accuse us of being heretical due to a false idolatry assumption.
14-Very difficult to show the historical truth , look like they were brain-washed.
15-They are not yet, at least overtly, collecting funds to support the assassin State of Israel, but its well established that some of the largest denominations have been laundering money obtained from tithes to the State of Israel ,specially one called (Igreja Universal do Reino de Deus ,with churches all around the world).
And many ,many other considerations that would be boring to enumerate.
You see ,the problem is not only religious, but evidently is political given the emphasis that Israel acquires in their theology.
There are differences when compared with the American Zionist Christians but in the end they are useful to the Jewish elites.
I would like to be at least in a position to argue regarding the topics I already highlighted to you in the other message.
Your friend,
Juan
KathJuliane,
I must respectfully say that any attempt of explaining away the Catholic and Orthodox tradition of icons and statues will end in a fallacy.
First of all, because Canaanites could have offer just the same explanation of their images of Baal (and Baal was a name also given to the One and Only God of Heaven). But I think you have just solve the riddle when saying “they have the tradition of statuary”… That´s the little word!, “tradition”…
The Lord Jesus came ALSO to the deliver us from traditions of men which posing as very “pious” before men´s eyes, are notwithstanding dead in the eyes of God.
To every law there are exceptions. That of the cherubim warding the ark of the covenant would be such exception of God´s law.
You will find out the truth regarding this only by harmonizing the whole content of the Scriptures, both OT and NT. Were it not for harmonizing the Scriptures with discernment, we would be ransaking entire villages like we see in the book of Joshua. By the way, taking out of context is what Judaics and “Christian Zionist” are doing presently…
That of “the tradition of statuary” is quite similar to a Talmudic clause regarding worship of Moloch: according to Tractate Sanhedrin, it isi OK to worship Moloch WITHOUT passing your children through fire, and it´s also OK to pass your children through fire WITHOUT worshiping Moloch, because the Law of God prohibits to do both as part of the same act.
Blessings in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
@Enya
In one breath you’re exclaiming the Rothchild influence of the Vatican and in another coming down on the Vatican for the Inquisition and the Crusades…
Who’s the real Zionist Enya? and what are you trying to say?
@Enya
FYI- One who has been (a child or adult) baptized into Christ is no longer a Jew
Why us??? What have we done?
PERSECUTION Federal prosecutors filed a new 142-count criminal indictment against former managers of Agriprocessors.
http://www.forward.com/articles/106206/
The thing I want to know is… is Putin somehow connected to the original Czar of Russia?
Maybe he has a long standing beef with the Joo world order and wants some payback.. I for one would back him up. it seems like the only solution to the problem right now.
Dear Stav
Agree with you on the drifting off the center subject of this thread.
But, as I said last week, I think that many people, that is not even participating in this section (like me, I stay more than one year silent, just watching whatever you guys had to say), benefit with the wide learning and spirituality that we find among you.
Stav, I’ll humbly ask you to highlight very concisely, let say six major doctrinal deviations of the RCC when compared with the Orthodox Church (hope that are not more than six).
Things that can make you rise your eyebrow and say: That guy is an heretic.
It’s funny, if not tragic, that I was caught thinking on the protestants as heretics, while all of the sudden I’m moved to consider me in the same rank and file!
Honestly, besides differences in the historical political stance taken by the RCC and the obvious degradation of the Papacy from ~500 AD with spots here and there of really saintly pontiffs, I can hardly imagine many great differences albeit liturgical or formal.
But I’m not an specialist, that’s the reason I’m asking your opinion and viewpoint.
You see, we have RCC ingrained in our hearts, is our religious approach to the Almighty, we open our eyes to the world practically inside a church, being baptized as little babies.
Tell you what. When I was 5 years old, (now I’m 55) I remember our good parochial father coming (on foot, my friend) to our home to say “novenas” with my mother and grandmother he even carried a heavy wooden box with sculptures of the Blessed Virgin Mary and Jesus Christ and keep coming during 9 successive days if I’m not mistaken.
I don’t know if this is correct or not but certainly carved a deep impression in my soul.
Cathecism. I was prepared during one whole year to receive what we call “segunda comunión”, now you are a 10 year old guy and goes everyday to the parrochial building to join a group of kids and you are tought whatever you need to know on the very basics tenets of our faith.
If you count we are speaking about 1964-1965, II vatican Council recomendations not yet enforced…
Stav, I feel we do need to find a way to short whatever differences we have.
Ecumenism is going to kill all us. Staying the way we are, separated, will ease our common enemy task.
Hope you felt the inner sentiment of this message.
Thanks in advance
Juan
Dear Father Joseph,
Downloaded “End Times “article.
Due to differences in time zones, there exits a cluster of invisible messages to us while awaiting moderation.
I did not see your reply before sending some comments.
Anyway I think that it’s pretty clear.
Juan
What did Christ say about those who corrupt the little children? The Roman Catholic Church is not the Church that Saint Patrick brought to Ireland.
Dear Juan,
Is Freemasonry active in Russia?
I think it best not to anwer that question directly. As I have said in previous posts, France and Russia are predestinate nations in terms of the role they will play “in the latter times of the world”, they are nations upon whom the Sacred and Immaculate Hearts have great designs.
In a nation like America, for example, the influence and activity of Freemasonry will be decisive over many areas. With France and with Russia this will not be the case.
At present we see the re-establishment of a Christian state. But Tzarist Russia was a Christian state. Catholic Italy was a Christian state - both fell to the power of the Revolution.
More than a Christian foundation or refounding is needed.
Dear Juan,
The gifted writer and scholar, Dr Henry Makow, author of The Illuminati, is currently expounding on many of your questions over at www.henrymakow.com.
Dr. Makow identifies himself as ‘an assimilated Jew’. He is presently writing a fascinating commentary on Jyri Lina’s “under the Sign of the Scorpion”.
I can see a decisive and incisive leap in his thinking since he read and reviewed Michael Hoffman’s: Judaisim Discovered: A Study of the Anti Biblical Religion of Racism, Self Worship, Superstition and Deceit. This book is now in its second printing and going out of print. This definitive text is indispensible to the questions you are asking. Please get a copy for your library while you still can. www.revisionisthistory.org.
golden*nugget:
It’s good to see that your spelling here is just as bad as it is when you leave your NUMEROUS messages on Hal Turners (a known FBI informant) website.
Let me help you out: Catholicism not “Catholism,” and through not “thru.” The translators of your King James Bible were learned and well educated men–you could learn from their example.
And seriously, stay away from Hal Turner–he is a liar who works for the FBI as an informant.
He’s always trying to get people to provide him with their name and address (remember the offer to provide government officials addresses for $15 and he would only send it to you by return mail?)
Seriously I suspect you have a well meaning heart. Hal Turner isn’t the answer. Spend more time here, read your Bible and follow what it says instead of men.
Dear Juan,
You wrote: Their celebrations are a mix of exorcism with much music and singing (local folklore included) and the worst is a heavy reliance on a Jewish Old Testament ,I mean a favorable vision of Israel with much of the decoration you will find in a filthy synagogue (Menorahs, arks of the covenant, even, unbelievable the national State of Israel flag displayed behind the “altar”) .
Reply: I can most readily agree with this, with the exception of calling certain holy things “filthy”. Profane and blasphemous use of these things might be better as symptoms of the Judaizing of Christianity, and the “Synagogues of Satan” with the flag of Israel prominent goes without saying much.
Just as the Law of Moses is still holy for Christians as it became the foundation of the Law of Christ on the Sermon on the Mount, there are things of old Israel that are still holy as well. The Menorah (Seven-branched lamp-stand of the Temple, and olive oil is still used) is on the altars of Orthodox and Eastern Temples (properly edifices are “temples”, while people are the church); the Syriac and Assyrian Oriental Orthodox use a synagogue form of liturgy that includes the presence of the Ark containing Scripture; there is still a “tabernacle” or “ark” that now houses the symbols of the New Covenant of Christ, ie. the Holy Eucharest.
Also, dear Juan, we are all “heretics” to some degree or another, as we are all fallen and sinful people. Orthodoxy has resisted using three-dimensional objects, like statuary, in religious expression, in that such objects, while often beautiful, also must stay within the parameters of the three-dimensional natural and material, in other words “this worldly”.
Very much like the artwork of Escher who’s genius at capturing multi-dimensional paradoxes on flat surfaces, it is the two-dimensional aspect of iconography and mosaics in the strict iconographic canons relying on sacred mathematics, geometries, proportions and symbolism that convey the “spiritual world” in their own lexicon and grammar, attempting to make visible what is invisible spiritual realities of Christian truth. Even iconography does not go past the bounds of what has been revealed in Scripture.
Three-dimensional art keeps us grounded in the material and worldly, the icons are other-worldly, and act like “windows” into the invisible realm of heaven.
BTW, the Apostles used every means possible to spread the Gospel, including early icons, as the Greeks were famous for their miniature portrait paintings. The Apostle and Evangelist Luke painted the first icon of the Virgin Mary, for example.
In a world of illiteracy, and culture of orality, the Gospel story of Christ can be contained on just 12 icons. A picture says 1,000 words, and be translated into 1,000 languages.
Beyond rational concerns about such things as statuary and particular traditions, what is much more important about your story of your blessed and humble parochial priest was his love for our Lord Jesus Christ and Christian people that he would labor so mightily to bring the beauty of holy things to parish homes.
Dear Enya,
Please don’t fall for the hyper-sensationalizing propaganda generated from the very sorrowful and painful pedophilia and homosexual scandals, and institutional failures of the hierarchy of the RCC by the Jewish-owned MSM in painting all the Catholic Christian faithful as degenerates, including their holy priesthood. We are certainly aware of the Vatican’s worldly issues.
The truth is, less than 2% of the American Catholic priesthood has ever been involved in anything scandalous or immoral. In other words, 98% of Catholic priests are still good men, 98% of Catholics are still good Christians.
Dear Lynda.
I went to henrymakow.com and read :
USSR _Illuminati experiment was “social catastrophe”
To the end of this introductory article we read:
“…Eventually the cost of maintaining the USSR became too heavy, and the new Russia was born, under the Freemasons Yeltzin and Putin….”
Yes, I’ll purchase Hoffman book.
When I think how bad the jewish banker had been in my country, you can’t but pale confronted with the Soviet reality.
“Una verdadera máquina de picar carne humana” that’s to say “a real human flesh grinder”.
I’ve been in Moscow towards the end of the soviet nightmare (1985).
But could see misery not just material but deep spiritual misery, sorrow, saddness, specially in the eyes of old people.
Juan
Dear KathJuliane,
There was no offence intended when mentioned sacred Menorahs, arks of the covenant, remember seen those in a synagogue and never visited an Orthodox temple (pure ignorance of myself).
The problem, I think, is the Evangelic association with those objects.
I believe they are trying to incorporate the more that they possibly can into their liturgy from the jewish synagogue.
Not precisely from the Orthodox Church.
I mean, in the end there is not a clear understanding of the lost covenant by Israel.
The ambient and the message is confusing, they keep saying constantly that they must bless the people of Israel (not the concept that we are Israel after Jesus crucifixion).
This even explain the presence of the flag, why else?
Never saw those objects in a Catholic Church as well.
Understand perfectly the difference between a two-dimensional and a three dimentional object from the point of view of an Orthodox, really interesting.
Thanks KathJuliane
This Comment Is From “Joanne” - A Regular Commentor Who Had Trouble With Anti-Spam:
——————————–
Below are Some comments regarding ADL and homosexuality:
***************
Homosexuality is a curse and is used to Plot against Christ and His Church.
Edgar Bronfman is instructive. He has long been an official of the Anti-Defamation League, the watchdog arm of the exclusively Jewish Freemasonic lodge, B’nai B’rith.
A group of Torah Jews in New York City were authors of the Family Defense Council newsletter. In it they regularly exposed the ADL.
In the past decade, under the misleadership of Abraham Foxman, National Director, the ADL has been allied with “Gay Men and Lesbians” and pro-abortion groups.
Currently, ADL is combating a provision of the Telecommunications Reform Act that is seen as a “significant threat to the continued flow of information about abortion on the electronic superhighway, and could seriously interfere with a woman’s right to receive abortion material on-line.”
In promoting homosexuality, the ADL has submitted amicus curiae briefs where special protection for homosexuals is opposed by a state or local government.
ADL opposed the right of the Boy Scouts of America to exclude a homosexual as adult Scout leader. In its amicus curiae brief, ADL argued that “All traditional organizations do not believe homosexuality is immoral.”
ADL also submitted an amicus curiae brief to the U.S. Supreme Court opposing the right of sponsors of Boston’s St. Patrick’s Day Parade to exclude an Irish-American “gay and lesbian” group from marching under its own banner.
The Court affirmed the right of the sponsors of the Parade….ADL is now undermining Christian Traditional family values.
While the ADL has concentrated upon uprooting the traditions of Western Christian civilization from public life…, it has not protested as “New Age religion” has been ushered in the back door, now to permeate society.
In fact, while condemning any manifestation of Christianity at every turn, the ADL has used First Amendment arguments in court and elsewhere to defend witchcraft and peyote (an hallucinogen derived from a type of cactus) cults.
Also, The Pink Swastika is a compelling expose of the the Zionist Nazi Party as a male supremacist homosexual elite.
When Zionist Adolf Hitler, [who was part Jewish and doing away with his own brethren] ran for Chancellor of Gemany on a platform of traditional values, he called for a rebirth of the Greek ideal, the New Man. However, Hitler’s ideal was an Aryan nobility of the ancient androgynous race sired by demons, per Genesis 6.
Zionist German National Socialists derived their view of homosexuality as a masculine virtue.
Sincerely in Christ Jesus,
Joanne
Hello. I love this site and everything you do here. I wish to give some testimony as my first comment.
Brother Kapner brought me back to my Bible. I have been reading here for over a year, and then I read the article about the Zionist Heirarchy of control over the media and banks, etc.
At the bottom he said (roughly) “How to defeat the NWO, ” get on a spaceship, fly to another planet; or slow boat to China; or Spread the Word Of Jesus.
I was frustrated, overwhelmed, angry, and broken to the verge of tears thinking about the poor children getting thier limbs blown off by tungsten bombs in Gaza, and the endless deception of the Satanists (That’s what I call the NWO), and how useless I felt thinking there was nothing I could do about it.
So, I reached over and picked up the King James Bible. I started reading at Matthew, as I have done before. BUT THIS TIME It Was Alive.
I know Brother K’s suggestion is a no brainer, but it was the catalyst needed to make me reach out again. Thank you so much. May the Lord bless you and strengthen you through all your endeavors!
Dear Mariano,
I will answer to your post in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord.
Be advised, that the matter of disputing Icons has been addressed in the past and so it is nothing new to an Orthodox. The idea of Icons was fought very violently I might add, and through a series of events, and other reasons it led to the Seventh Ecumenical Council taking a final decision on the matter.
A simple example, which is the use we have today for photos, can be used to explain how the Orthodox view icons. It would be ridiculous, to say that one is “explaining away” his actions if they told you that they do not believe that the photo is not the same thing as what it depicts.
I assure you, the Orthodox, see icons exactly like that, like photos, or representations of the subjects they depict. Nothing more. And to simply this explanation is simply a way to escape the Protestant accusations is hypocritical.
The second matter is tradition.
There are two kinds of tradition. The first is human or worldly traditions, created by man. Then, there is tradition which is entangled irreversibly to the Early Church, and the persons involved in the Early Church. This Holy Tradition, includes first hand experience with Christ, with his Mother, with the Apostles and later with the Martyrs and Saints, the people who practiced the early form of Christianity.
This is something that you you do not know anything of, at least not first hand, because, you have been ripped away from it and thus, your forced ignorance of it makes you believe that it has no value at all.
However, what Protestants in general fail to see, is that they (as much as they like to ignore this fact), rely on Holy Tradition. The simple actions that all Christians take, such as that they read the Bible, even use the word “Church”, have a form of priesthood, stems from this holy tradition.
More specifically, the people who have written the New Testament, were much closer to the Orthodox People that you see today, than ANY, and I mean ANY other Church you see around you. In fact, they actually were Orthodox, in their ways, beliefs etc.
You say:
You will find out the truth regarding this only by harmonizing the whole content of the Scriptures, both OT and NT.
My answer to that, is that you must realize, where the NT and OT comes from. Who wrote it, and under what circumstances. For example, what was included in a day of life of St. John, when he wrote the Apocalypse? Do you think that he wrote it in a nice clean, meticulously clinical environment like most Protestants have today?
No, he was doing all the things Orthodox do today, including the venerating of Icons, partaking in the Liturgy Mystery and other practices that are only (in the purest form) kept in the Orthodox Church.
More over, St. John’s life was COMPLETELY SATURATED in Holy traditions which for him, were his personal memories and the memories of his fellow Christians of the time. THAT is where Holy Tradition stems from. And that, is what Protestants have decided to amputate from the Christian Faith.
And I say amputate, because in reality the Holy Tradition is inseparable from the Scriptures, which you take as your only source of inspiration. The Scriptures, as you read them today are the fruit of the Holy Tradition, of which you no longer know anything about. In short, without the Holy Tradition, your church would not even be there.
You say:
That´s the little word!, “tradition”…
Yes, it is an important word, because it is all we have! As I said earlier, even the bible is part of our Holy Tradition. Unfortunately for you, you are missing the rest of it. And it is a Rich tradition.
You say:
That of “the tradition of statuary” is quite similar to a Talmudic….
This paragraph reminded me of something else: While I do not compare the Holy Tradition with the Luciferian Talmudian one, there is something VERY VERY similar between Judaism and Orthodoxy.
Both Faiths are saturated in Holy Tradition. Therefore, for a Jew, Orthodoxy is in my humble opinion, the most easy to digest Christian version (apart from the fact that it is the only correct one) for a converting Jew, because of these traditions. In the eyes of a practicing Jew, Orthodoxy is a continuation and update if you will to his original faith.
Br. Nathanael, please confirm if I am right.
Orthodox priests, would look familiar to the the old Jews who had priests, exactly because they follow the same covenant after the order Melchizedek and also even appear the same as the ancient Jewish priests did–beard, long hair and all. My point to mentioning this, is to show that this tradition, has been handed down from before the coming of Christ, was update by Christ and continued via the Orthodox Church.
Another example is the Holy Communion. We Orthodox, take part in the Holy Communion, EXACTLY as told in the Bible and EXACTLY as handed down by Holy Tradition. We user Wine and Bread. We ALL partake of this, which IS His Most Holy Body and Blood.
Now compare this, core practice, with the other Churches, even the Catholic. Have you ever wondered why there are so many differences? It is either the corruption or complete lack of the Holy Tradition that causes this.
References:
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/icon_faq.aspx
I guess Orthodox people have no sins…
except for no cultural outreach of anyone, not Russian, Albanian, Coptic or Greek..(the way Catholics do) or no schools (the way Catholics do) –though anyone can go…
Dear Juan,
Again, I must apologize, as this is grossly off topic. I would not complain or blame him in the least, if Br. Nathanael blocks this post, simply for being out of topic.
Stav, I’ll humbly ask you to highlight very concisely, let say six major doctrinal deviations of the RCC when compared with the Orthodox Church (hope that are not more than six).
While I do not claim to be a Theologian nor any expert on this matter, I will try to answer your inquiry. Needless to say, I have a good personal grasp of this matter by I have consulted Greek Orthodox sources for the list I present later on in this post, as I did not want to leave anything out or make any serious ommisions:
First of all, I’d like to say that while there are doctrinal differences, there are also differences of attitude (which stem from the doctrinal ones) and practical ones, (which stem from the attitude differences). Thus we can see that there is a chain of changes, of corruption which evolves and deteriorates any heretical faith over time.
This is also a common occurrence with all heretical views. Heretical views, do not stay confined and isolated. They infect the faith and cross over to differences of attitude and practice, especially after many years pass.
It is interesting to note, that even a single change in doctrine, can lead to dramatic and tragic results, as can be seen not only in the Catholic and Protestant Churches, but also in the history of the Jewish faith, which has deteriorated to a satanic cult, in its most extreme form, due to a single decision taken, which is the dismissal of Jesus Christs’ claim that he is the messiah.
Also the generally characterized as “protestant” branch of Christianity also owes its current corrupted status, to one single premise, that of “sola scriptura”, which then gave birth to a multitude of separate churches and herecies.
Thus, before I list the differences, I would like it it be understood, that seemingly (but not actually) harmless differences in Doctrine, even small ones, can and will lead to catastrophic results.
So here we go::
1) The filioque. A completely arbitrary change added to the Creed or Symbol of the Faith. It was specifically canonized, in previously accepted ecumenical councils that the Creed be not changed by anyone and for any reason. There are some practical issues also involved, because of the lack of specificity int he Latin as compared to the Greek which cased the perpetuation of this change.
The theological differences derived by this insertion of a single three letter word into the creed, have filled centuries worth of writings and inspired countless minor heretical views.
2) The Pope claiming to be first among equals. This, again, was an arbitrary decision, clearly based on intended political power and the display of superiority and authority. It must be noted here, that the first apostles viewed themselves as equals and there was no first among them. This was displayed in practice in the first apostolic synod of 49 ad.
3) The completely unjustified and baseless claim that the Pope is infallible when he speaks as the Pope. No scriptural nor Holy tradition supports this claim. Enough said. The Orthodox consider the Ecumenical councils, to be only infallible human action and again this infallibility is supported and inspired by God.
4) The Uniate Church, or otherwise expressed the Trojan Horse plague, that has afflicted usually the greatly diminished Slavic people, who under the other plague of Communism were nearly destroyed. How can anyone claim that putting on a fake appearance of the Orthodox for the sole purpose of infiltrating traditionally Orthodox countries, in the name of the “Church” is beyond me. It is important to note that many Orthodox Churches and parishes were taken over by Uniates, by force. Other labels for this “church” can be Byzantine Catholic etc. etc.
5) The Celibacy of Priests. Again, this was an arbitrary change from the previously accepted Ecumenical Council decision.
6) Differences in worship. Many arbitrary changes were done to the way Christians worshiped until the schism. The use of unleavened bread and the non-giving of Christ’s Most Holy Blood to the laity, the baptism by sprinkling, the confession behind a screen, the changes in priestly attire, the over realistic icons/paintings and statues etc. were all such arbitrary changes.
All of the above, has had a more profound and visible change in the Catholic Church. The practical changes range from seemingly insignificant changes, to blatant evil behavior. The Catholic Church, slowly took on a church-political attitude, seeking worldly power and control over things. The “holy” inquisitions, the crusades, are examples of this twisted attitude. The more blatant examples of evil behavior, include the attacking of “fellow’ Christians during the Crusades in Constantinople, the congratulating telegraphs sent to Kemal Ataturk by the Catholics after his extermination of the Greek populations in Asia minor etc. etc.
The main practical difference today, is the worldly attachment that the Catholic Church has, which shows through their every action and their refusal to change even their most blatant errors in doctrine.
Stav
Hi All and Maria,
I feel I have to add the following to my previous posts:
1) My personal, I repeat, personal theory on why the Orthodox are Orthodox, starting by my self, is that we simply are the MOST prone to sin. Thus we are the FIRST who need a correct faith, otherwise we would be lost. Given how the Greeks can be, and that is a personal observation, anyone who knows them would agree with me. Then again, I cannot speak for the rest of the Orthodox. I consider my self to be a sinner, and would not try to defend all Orthodox people as perfect. We have plenty of short comings, but one of them is not our Correct Glorification (which is the meaning of the word Orthodoxy) of God.
2) I would also like to add, that again its my personal opinion, that the Orthodox Church can and has something to learn from some of the other Churches. Namely their organized approach, in all respects.
3) Also I admire the knowledge that some Evangelicals have of the Scriptures, although, its funny, because while they know the Scriptures, they sometimes “forget” the passages which do not support some of their positions. It is also sad, because some of them learn the Scriptures from grossly mistranslated sources and thus remain untouched by the message of the Bible.
Stav
Dear Juan,
Other than knowing you are an electrical engineer living there in South America and I’m living here North America, you have to admit the reality of the Mystical Body of Christ, the Reality of the Abiding Divine Grace(s) that are afforded us as a result of the Church’s Sacraments of Baptism, Confession, Confirmation and the Eucharist.
You are I are both seeing “the same thing” in spirit while continents apart, having no other common link other that our spiritual union in the Faith.
We both recognize this HUGE problem our World, its Human Race and Our Lord’s Church are currently engulfed and we both recognize there are just so many blocks, so many obstalces, so many impediments spawned within and throughout the nations and states of our world which all work together to ensure one catastrophy after another befalls us all - whether we like it or not.
- Fr. Joseph
We see here that he that doesn’t believe in God and Son -IS the Antichrist.
We also see that mankinds number is 666.
We see the beast has the same number.
(The actual number means nothing but to ID).
So- we see the beast is MANKIND.
“WE” are the capable beast (or the non- believers anyway)
Dear Juan,
Anti-spam chewed up and spit out yet another one of my postings to you. Oh well. It was another “good” one (grin).
I suppose I just have “too much” I can share with you with regards to the manifold things and evils affecting our contemporary World. To be sure, attribute THAT to the Graces of God working in, on and with me.
Let me give this another try.
Henry Makow just posted an article on the Masonic-Illumist geopolitical and psycho-spiritual conspiracies against God, the Church and the peoples of once very Christian Russia.
Same sort of thing happened to the people of France, Poland, England, Italy and here in the U.S.A. via the Masonic-Illuminist U.S. Supreme Court ruling of 1947 in the Everson v. Board of Education case.
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Stav
Thank you very much indeed!
I’ll be reading this your missive with more attention and due consideration.
Looks clear enough in the first instances.
Juan
Dear Juan,
Anti-spam chewing me up left and right. Once again.
Here in the U.S.A., the Masonic-Illuminist alliance has successfully eradicated Apostolic Christianity from the everyday lives of the vast majority of U.S. citizens by using the Masonic-Illumist U.S Supreme Court of 1947 in its ‘Judicial Fiat’ ruling of Everson v. Board of Education.
Always, the Masonic-Illumnist-Satanic as well as Rosicrucian-Hermetic-Qabbalist spiritual alliance go after the ‘Central Authority’ of the peoples of nations and states. They topple their OWN indiginous governments they’ve errected for themselves and install some sort of vehemently anti-Christ and anti-Church social corporation headed by their own hand selected CEOs, CFOs and COOs who, in turn, use the Executive, Legislative and Judicial sub divisions to ensure the Christian Faith is erradicated, removed - or at least diluted and rendered impotent in the affairs and lives of the peoples of that particular nation-state.
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Juan,
As you see here on the RZN forums, divide and conquer is the constant and relentless mindset imposed on people the world over TO ENSURE no form of unified spiritual resistance is frothcoming from the “remnants” of the Christian Church.
Henry Makow just posted an article on how the Masons-Illuminists launched their pycho-spiritual assault against the once very Christian nation of Russia.
And just look at the vehement display of the ‘Orthodox’ ensuring they do everything in their power to keep anything ‘Catholic’ as far away from them as if it were a ‘Plague’.
The Most Holy Theotokos, the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of God Incarnate Himself, appeared to three children in the VERY Catholic country of Portugal back in 1917 A.D. several monthg BEFORE the actual Bolshevik Revolution TOPPLED the Christian Monarchy of Russia.
In order TO SAVE the people of RUSSIA from the Masonic-Illuminst satanic conspiracy against the Christian Russian Monarchy and the ORTHODOX Church of Russia, see asked for a public and solemn Collegial Consecration of RUSSIA to her Immaculate Heart by the BISHOPS of the Catholic Church.
But because of the HOSTILITY between those who want to relish in their Orthodoxy while having nothing to do with the Western Church and because of the fear of the Prelates in the Western Church in complying with the Mother of God’s Fatima Instruction,
MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF RUSSIAN ORTHODOX loose their lives on account of the Masonic Illuminist Bolshevik Revolution!
Is that “SILLY” or not?
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Juan,
So as you continue reading the postings from ‘the Orthodox’ here on RZN, whether they be Russian Orthodox or Serbian Orthodox or Greek Orthodox or Syrian Orthodox - they are ALL in common agreement that they must have NOTHING TO DO WITH the Catholic Church and the Mother of God’s 1917 A.D. Fatima Apparition and Instructions!
So the Serbian Orthodox have to have their brains blown out, their homes and lands BOMBED into the ground because the RUSSIAN Orthodox don’t want anything to do with the Bishop of Rome and the Catholic Church.
The Greek Orthodox and the Syrian Orthodox throughout the Middle East have to endure DECADE after DECADE of wars and deprivations on account of the Zionist State of Israel because both the Serbian and Russian Orthodox continue to remain STUBBORN and hold anything of the Latin Church in contempt - principally the Most Holy Theotokos’ urgent pleas and Message and Instruction per her Fatima Apparitions.
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Father Joseph
You speak to my heart, father.
I’ll try to learn and be of some help to someone else.
Thanks,
Your friend, Juan
Mariano: “I must respectfully say that any attempt of explaining away the Catholic and Orthodox tradition of icons and statues will end in a fallacy.”
Response: Bless you for your courteous reply. I have given you an explanation. Whether you choose to consider them “fallacious” or not without at least doing the research that some fine modern Protestant, Evangelical, and Lutheran theologians and scholars are doing looking for the “ancient historical NT Church”, that is up to you.
You are familiar, I am sure, with the great late Frances Shaeffer, one of the best American Christian thinkers I know of. Now ask yourself how is it that his equally brilliant son, the Evangelical Frankie Shaeffer, converted to Orthodoxy?
Please find the authority for me, if you would be so kind, in Holy Scripture that justifies “by Faith alone” (Sola Fide) and “by Scripture Alone” (Sola Scriptura). Sad to say, even these concepts of Martin Luther have been distorted from their original basis.
The “fallacy” is not mine. The Old Testament must be evaluated in the light of the New Testament, not vice versa. The OT is “shadows and types” prophesying the Messiah to Come; the NT is the New Covenant of Christ.
The Orthodox Church governs her life by Apostolic Tradition. The heart of the RCC is also the same Apostolic Tradition, as it is the common Christian tradition of the Roman Empire of the East and West, politically united for 3 centuries after Constantine as Romania. Apostolic Tradition of the Church also governed churches in the territories outside of the borders of the Byzantine Roman Empire, such as in Africa, Persia, and Asia, all of which participated in what is called the Seven Ecumenical Councils of the undivided Church.
After these Councils, decisions began to be unilaterally made in the West by the Bishop of Rome, one of the Patriarchs of the Pentarchy of the imperial Church of Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem. “Byzantine Roman Orthodoxy” can roughly describe the period of time of united faith during the first millennium. Whether Celtic-rite Orthodoxy, Latin-rite Orthodoxy or Eastern-rite Orthodoxy, it was the same Apostolic Holy Tradition
After the Schism of the Pope from the Pentarchy, hence from the Eastern Patriarchs, the Latin Church continued to evolve as the Papal monarchy, while the Eastern Churches retained their collegial and concillar nature.
When I speak from the “Orthodox” perspective, it is always in relation to the undivided Church of the first millennium as “the” Apostolic Tradition. Such things as the claims of “Peter’s throne” as the seat of the Papal monarchy based on the spurious “Donation of Constantine”, and the the Popes’ creation of “Christendom” in alliance with the political prowess of the Franks, which was fully realized when Charlemagne accepted a crown from the hands of Pope Leo III in the year 800, are outside of Apostolic Tradition itself in terms of the Church. point marks the political defection of the Pope
Many are confused as to what exactly Holy Tradition is. “Tradition” comes from the Latin ‘traditio’, which is a translation of a Greek word used frequently in the Scriptures, ‘paradosis’. Translated literally, this word means something that is handed on from one person to another, in the same way that a baton is handed over in a relay race. Something that is “traditioned” is passed on from one person or group of people to another, generation to generation. St. Paul clarifies in Galatians 1:11 that the Tradition of the Church is “not according to man”. In other words, it is revealed by God, and not a human product.
Tradition also means an experience, an entire life—not simply a series of teachings, but the living out of those teachings that have come from the God Who has revealed Himself to us. But the best “evangelism” does not come out of Scripture, it comes from the struggling to be a decent imitation of Jesus Christ in life and family.
The books that are in the Holy Scriptures both Old and New Testaments, are there because God’s people, through those who were set aside as having authority to make the decision, decided that these books would be part of the Bible, and other books would not. The Church, as God’s people inspired by God, wrote the Bible, both OT and NT. The Church produced the Bible. The Bible did not produce the Church.
The Holy Scriptures are the principal and most honored written record of God’s revelation to His people. But it is the understanding of the Orthodox that the Holy Scriptures cannot be completely and truthfully understood unless they are understood within the context of the Church that produced them, and declared them to be what they are. Quite often I must use “Orthodox” in order to distinguish from what is “Roman Catholic”, as were are two distinctly separate ecclesiastical communities, despite common Faith.
After the Schism of 1054 when the Papacy went its own monarchial way from the concillar and collegial Pentarchy of the Church, in the RCC the authority now rests in the Magisterium, which follows “development of dogmas”, which the Eastern Churches do not ascribe to. If it is not in Holy Tradition and in accord with the “patristic mind” of the Church of Christ of which Scripture is the primary pillar, then it is “man made tradition”.
Dear Juan,
World Peace is still possible. The thermonuclear devises haven’t been set off as yet.
Heaven’s Key To Peace
http://www.heavenskeytopeace.com/
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Fr Joseph,
There are many agents of mega death in the world, of which thermos are only one.
The peace the world wants is an absence of conflict and business as usual for the powers ruling this age of the world and their populations.
They do not want the peace of Christ the King. Therefore, The Plan of the ruling powers to manifest their authority in New (Old) World Order will continue apace.
Albert Pike said it would take three world wars to “externalize” this ruling hierarchy
IN the final plan, Pike’s letter to Mazzini, he envisioned this as a war to exhaustion between Christinity, Communist / Zionist state and Islam.
That is the plan that is being machinated.
The U.S. of course has enacted every plank in the platform of the Comintern / U.N. and so will line up with Zionism.
But we know from history that, as the polity of Rome was at issue between the Tetrarchs what happened after 3 centuries of Christian martyrdom.
Because Our Lord must reign until all enemies are under his feet, unforseen EVENTS from heaven have a way of occurring at these decisive historical junctures.
In the contest shaping up, one power (as was Constantine) will be given the power to claim victory.
And which one might that be, I wonder
After the Schism of 1054 when the Papacy went its own monarchial way from the concillar and collegial Pentarchy of the Church, in time, the RCC the “teaching authority” of the was dogmatically formalized as the Magisterium in the 16th century , which follows “development of dogmas”, which the Eastern Churches do not follow. If it is not in Holy Tradition, the “patristic mind” of the Church of Christ of which Scripture is the primary pillar, then it is “man made tradition”.
Since about the 9th century, many practices entered the Western Church that are innovations, clearly traceable errors, and this will certainly make my Catholic friends grit their teeth, but heresies as well. Nor is anything I say as an Orthodox ever meant as condemnation of my Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ. It is all meant as a long view of ecclesiastical and spiritual history which has led up to the massive shipwreck of Faith in the West. He who does not learn the mistakes of history is doomed to repeat them in the future.
These unilateral changes by the Papacy are not within the dogmatic bounds, and fly into the very face of the historical and authoritative parameters as set by the Seven Ecumenical Synods as to what Holy Apostolic Tradition is, outside of which includes the notion of Papal monarchy itself as a political state.
And, we “stubborn” Orthodox still get it cast into our teeth, yet the proof is Scripturally very simple, our Lord Jesus said “My kingdom (the Church) is not of this world.”
Church, in order to be Church taking care of the spiritual life and the curation of souls, must not be also be anchored to worldly affairs of State and used as a political tool, or have a worldly political desire for temporal power itself. Church, besides preparing souls for Eternity, is supposed to prepare people for a moral and orderly life that can be brought into the temporal and political sphere of a fallen and sinful world. This is how the early Church turned the pagan Roman empire on its head.
By Constantine’s time, from 1/4 to 1/3 of the population were Christian, including the equestrian ranks of the government offices and the military, the Patrician aristocracy, even the Army had legion troops and auxiliary cohorts of Christians, especially in the East. Then, when the Roman elite, up to and including some of the imperial household itself, refused to recant their faith in Christ at the order of the pagan Diocletian, the East broke out in eight years of the worst of the waves of persecutions against Christians in a bloodbath that crossed all classes and castes.
When pagan rage finally exhausted itself at the Christians “stubborn” refusal to sacrifice to the Roman idols in the daily public piety in the Great Persecution, there were more Christians than ever. “The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church.” But, on the other hand, Constantine had a Roman government, military and administration that were already partially Christianized to begin with, by the people themselves.
Therefore, under Justinian’s model, the Church institution ideally is not involved directly with temporal, civil and political affairs. The Justinian model is very much in keeping with our Constitutional Fathers’ ideas of no “establishment of religion” because of their direct experience of the established Church of England, headed by the King, which also collected religious taxes apart from civil taxation, ultimately both benefiting the King’s political power, and the Crown Banksters as well.
On the same hand, it does not prevent bishop, such as Bishop Atalla Hanna, a Palestinian advocate, may become involved in the affairs that directly involve his diocese and his Christian people in particular, and the welfare of people in general. Bishop Atalla and the Muslim clerics, have made it quite clear that in his co-labors with the Muslim Palestinian leadership, it is strictly political one behalf of the Palestinian people on the whole..
In the Byzantine Roman Empire of the undivided East and West, the imperial capital of which was Constantinople (Diocletian had disestablished Rome as the capital of the Roman Empire about 295 CE), centuries before the rise of the hybrid political model of “Christendom” along the Papal-Latin Frank axis of two European emperors struggling to gain power over each other, and then ganging up on the remains of the Byzantine Roman Empire, the Justinian Code of the 6th century thoroughly modeled Church and State under his theory of “Symphonia” existing as two separate spheres in mutual submission and obedience to each other concerning the responsibilities of their respective spheres.
Simply put, the Church is “in the world”, “not of the world”. Under the Justinian model, the Basileos (emperor) was the autocrat of the Roman State, and as “Defender of the Faith”, the Basileos was the “Vicar of Christ” in his political role, and as such the Basileos submitted to the Church Pentarchy regarding ecclesiastical and spiritual matters.
The closest thing to “Caesaro-Papism” in the East might have been that of Tzar Peter the Great in dismissing the Patriarch, and placing himself as the head of the Church Synod. However, Tzar Peter was also heavily influenced by Western models of German Monarchy and “Europeanization” desiring to come into the Enlightenment world. But any case, the centuries of warfare and controversy that evolved from struggles of Popes who would be Kings, and Kings who would be Popes in European affairs never occurred in Eastern Church history, nor the “Dark Ages”, or European feudal serfdom as we think of it..
In spring 1917, after the abdication of the most pious and faithful Tzar Nicholas II from the Russian throne, head of the Russian Church and “little Father” to the people, the Russian Synod reinstituted the Patriarchate of Moscow while the country was enmeshed in “soft” revolutionary troubles, and foreseeing the troubles to come of the Bolshevik Revolutionaries, elevated New Martyr-Patriarch Tikhon, formerly Archbishop of the Russian Church in Alaska and America, to be the “little Father” in spiritual leadership and strengthen the Russian people to face the on-coming Red Terror.
But, the Russian Church, with her long Byzantine affiliation with Constantinople, had, by this action, restored something of the ancient model of Justinian’s Symphonia with the elevation of the Patriarch as head and great champion of the Orthodox people through the most horrible circumstances possible. He was executed about 1927.
Enduring her crushing under the Bolsheviki and the Soviet rule, then the Glasnost and perestroika plundering of the FSY by the Clintonista liberal Jewish Yale privateers in league with the Jewish Oligarchs in bringing Zionist “democracy” and “capitalism” to the further tears of the people, finally the “New Russia” of Putin conforms rather closely to the ancient model of Justinian’s Symphonia of the independent, but mutually supportive spheres of Church and State within the constitutional republic with something of an autocratic component and a parliamentary system.
Putin and Medyedev must still go to confession, and submit to the spiritual discipline of their confessors. And they do not confess TO the priest, but Putin prays his confession to Jesus Christ in front of His holy Icon as the King and Judge of all things, to which the priest confessor stands witness. Let me tell you, this is sometimes quite difficult to do, realizing that one’s conscience is buck naked to the gaze of heaven, when icon of Christ is looking back at you with the Book of Life in His hand.
During the Red Terror and the destruction of monasteries, churches, the butchering of the millions, the satanically driven Bolsheviki Jews often gouged out the painted eyes of the icons of the saints and martyrs.
The Papacy has finally acknowledged that the Eastern Orthodox Church has remained completely pure in maintaining the Apostolic Holy Tradition, and teaches no errors concerning Christian Faith, after many centuries of painful history, crusades and persecutions of the Eastern Orthodox people as “heretics”, Now we are merely “schismatic”, and “backwards”.
And, we “stubborn” Orthodox still get it cast into our teeth for being so, as certainly the Orthodox Serbs have experienced most recently in the last century. And this includes the hideously horrible, and well documented persecution, forced conversions, mass slaughters, death camps, and ethnic cleansing by the Fascist Catholic Croats in WW2, with the active collaboration of Croatian bishops, clergy, monks and nuns. Along with the Serbs that perished were the Serbian Jews and the Rom people. Understanding anything about Balkan affairs now as the “faultline of three religions” after the end of Tito’s Communist regime, means going back into history as well to even get a grasp of the enormities.
Kosovo is the cradle of the great monastic Serbian Orthodox civilization, their “Jerusalem”, and this land as well as the territory of Metohija, was granted to them in 1146 by the Byzantine Emperor Manuel I Comnenos.
Did all the Catholic Croats participate in Fascist Croatia? No, in fact quite a number of Catholic clergy attempted to protect the Serb Orthodox, and sometimes these clergy paid the penalty as well for being enemies of the new Fascist Croat state. Are “all” Catholics implicated in this? No, not unless one approves of what was obviously manifest evil simply because it was “Catholic”.
The proof about separation of “Church” from temporal and political affairs is Scripturally very simple, our Lord Jesus said “My kingdom (the Church) is not of this world.”
From the Protestant side of things especially the great Martin Luther, I have a great deal of respect for his labors attempting to first make reforms within the Catholic Church regarding the numerous excesses he was addressing as a pious Catholic and very learned Augustinian theologian.
After much study of the Greek Orthodox Church and all of the Church Fathers—Latin and Greek—which the West believed was dead in Luther’s time after the Ottoman conquest, and deciding it was truly the “ancient historical Church”, Luther’s original efforts were solely aimed at correcting all of the accretions of the RCC Church to the pristine condition of Latin Orthodoxy before the schism with the East in 1054. The 95 Theses was, in fact, thoroughly grounded in ancient Holy Tradition and the Church Fathers.
“There was no offence intended when mentioned sacred Menorahs, arks of the covenant, remember seen those in a synagogue and never visited an Orthodox temple (pure ignorance of myself).
The problem, I think, is the Evangelic association with those objects.
I believe they are trying to incorporate the more that they possibly can into their liturgy from the jewish synagogue.”
Dear Juan, please forgive me, after re-reading what I wrote, for it was not directed towards you, and as usual, engaged keyboard while exchanging feet, of which one is usually stuck in my mouth at any given time.
What you’ve written is an astute observation, for there is what is called “Jewish Roots” or “Hebrew Roots” movements among some Christian communities. To me, it definitely underscores the fact that right now, America is a “land of dry wells” spiritually. We were created to worship God in a liturgical way, in a community of believers. In and of itself, by attempting to restore some sort of ordered doxology tradition and sense of holiness to their own communities, rather than resorting to “spontaneous” worship, their hearts are in the right place, but going in the wrong direction.
In that way on the surface, Jewish tradition is attractive, as it includes such things as high regard for family and home worship in set prayers, following an ordered calendar, as well as the sense of continuity with the past. But without evaluating what they are doing through very ancient Christian tradition which carried forward the things of Synagogue and Temple by the Apostles themselves, or understanding how very many things were subtly changed or redefined to reflect the Gospel truth in the days of the early Church.
Things like importing tambourines and dance into worship were never a part of the Synagogue. These things were all a part of the “folk festival” aspects, outside of what was supposed to be the more solemn areas of worship and Scripture. Psalms were all chanted without instruments in the Synagogue. At the Temple, there were certain limited times when the Levite musicians played their own instruments, and certainly not when the high priests were conducting the worship inside the Temple itself. When a priest went inside the Sancturary to offer up the sacrifice of incense and his prayers, the most holy portion of the service outside of the Day of Atonement, the congregation outside were actually supposed to be prostrated in complete silence, until the high priest came out with the benedictions for worshippers.
So, it is “zeal not according to knowledge”, and it also comes with the Zionist price tag as well, not to mention submerging themselves in the Rabbinic Pharisee Judaism which our Lord very clearly said made the divine Law of Moses to no effect. So, now we have a hybrid of Judeo-Christianity, or Judaizers among the 31 Flavors of Christian doctrines.
Most assuredly, the basic Bible-believing Christian American definitely knows there is a big problem with this, simply by reading Scripture and taking heed to our Lord Jesus’ words. We might be in a spiritual desert at the moment, but here in America we also do have a great rugged tradition of the circuit riding preacher armed with his Bible, ready to preach a little fire and brimstone when necessary to preach the Truth from right out of Scripture and wake people up.
And we do have some great ones.
For the benefit of Putins detractors. Putin has shown even further through his opposition to the Gay agenda in Russia his anti-Masonic, anti-Zionist character, both of which promote the above.
About Freemasonry and its link to Zionism, El-Azra University in Cairo had this to say about Freemasonry
.“…It is a Jewish organization in its roots. Its secret higher International Administrative board are Jews and it promotes Zionist activities….there is a clear relationship between Freemasonry, Judaism and International Zionism.
It has controlled the activities of high Arab officials in the Palestinian problem. It has limited their duties, obligations and activities for the benefit of Judaism and international Zionism.”
http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/layiktez1.html
Hence - the two beasts of the Apocalypse are intertwined.
“The Venerable Patriarch Sergius with the Clergy and the Official of Byzantium Vonos, endlessly marched along the great walls of Constantinople with an Icon of the Theotokos in hand (a PUBLIC and SOLEMN Consecration of Constantinople to her intercession and protection!)…The miracle came soon after…et al
“Living in these trying times, when we are beseiged by many forces of evil, it is hoped that the Akathist Hymn and other Services (such as yet another PUBLIC and SOLEMN Collegial Consecration to the Theotokos - parens mine) may restore the bullwark to withstand, and indeed to overcome these forces.” - quoting from
http://www.orthodoxchristian.info/pages/Akathist.htm
- Fr. Joseph
11 centuries LATER…
“From in front of the Tabernacle, he (Pope Leo XIII, Bishop of Rome) had heard a confrontation between JESUS and SATAN. Satan was bragging to Jesus that if he had enough time and enough power, HE COULD DESTROY THE CHURCH” - quoting from
http://www.geocities.com/stmichaelsangels
33 years LATER to the very month, the Theotokos APPEARS to three children in Fatima Portugal ADVISING and INSTRUCTING the Bishops of the Church to perform a PUBLIC and SOLEMN Collegial Consecration to HER!
“Living in these trying times, when we are BESEIGED by many forces of EVIL, it is hoped that the Akathist and other Services (such as a PUBLIC and SOLEMN Collegial Consecration not of Constantinople this time, but of Russia - parens mine) may provide the bulwark to withstand, and indeed TO OVERCOME these forces”
http://www.orthodoxchristian.info/pages/Akathist.htm
The AVARS who were about to gain VICTORY over the city of Constantinople were KHAZARS as well as Bulgars!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Avars
- Fr. Joseph
OFF TOPIC - disturbing
Lou Dobbs a CNN commentator of the news show “Lou Dobbs Tonight” runs a nightly poll on his web site ( http://loudobbs.tv.cnn.com/ ) the results of which he reports on his show, here is the one from May 21, 2009.
Would you personally employ torture to save American lives and prevent an attack on this country?
Yes 87% 4726
No 13% 709
Total Votes: 5435
This is not a scientific poll.
From this disturbing information it would seem the Zionist have their affirmation to continue the communist/socialist/fascist rule of this land and the world.
Dear Stav,
First of all, I must clarify that I am not a Protestant. I was born in a Roman Catholic environment and never understood all the traditions Catholics observe, though I supposed that it was God whom I was at odds with because of my “insensibility”. Then, when I was 24, I read the Bible for the very first time and realized that what I had been taught regarding Jesus was totally wrong. One night I had a visitation of the Holy Spirit and wholeheartedly repented of my sinful life and became a new man. And when I say this, I mean it…
Though I identified myself with a Protestant view –maybe due to my Catholic background-, I came to see that Protestantism is as manmade as any other “religion”. Presently, I don’t label myself anything but “a Biblical Christian”. As such, I cannot help but read what the apostle Paul writes to the Corinthians in his first letter to them:
“I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas”; still another, “I follow Christ.
“Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into[b] the name of Paul? I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.” (1 Corinthians 1: 10-17)
I cannot either close my eyes to what the same apostle Paul writes to the brethren in Ephesus:
“There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.” Ephesians 4:4-6
Talking about Ephesus… How did you come to know that John venerated icons? You cannot know that except through Orthodox account. The problem with Orthodox, Roman Catholic and even Protestant accounts is that they fail to seek a scriptural pattern on which every true born again Christian can rely with safety.
Some years ago I learnt that Luther hated so much the letter of James that he placed it at the very end of its translation of the Bible, following the book of Revelation!
As for Orthodoxy, I felt once attracted to attend a Russian Orthodox liturgy, were a young monk provided my with a few booklets containing teachings that you simply won’t find in the Scriptures. He never asked me regarding my faith in Jesus Christ or whether I had repented of my sins… He only wanted me to be just another son of his “Mother Church” Is that the work of the Spirit? Ca we talk of the church as a mother, when it is only the assembly of the saints, i. e., of people who repented of their sins and embraced the path taught by Jesus and the apostles? Where do the apostles teach that an assembly becomes a mother figure?
Even when I don’t believe in Christian denominations, I don’t judge anyone in my heart because of his or her personal belief regarding them. Instead of that, I am convinced that everyone –including myself- will have to appear before God’s Holy Throne and explain his or her choices of life. It was not Luther who convinced me of this, but the Scriptures themselves. Luther will have to explain why he hated so much James´ letter and why he condoned “holy wars” in Germany, and so on…
You say tradition is all we have… Speak for yourself, Stav; speak for yourself… However, there is one thing I agree with you: in that Judaism is very similar to Orthodoxy, to Roman Catholicism and to Protestantism. All of them are full of traditions of men which have no support in the OT nor in the NT, and oftentimes are even plainly contradicted by them.
The Melchizedek priesthood in Christianity has nothing to do with wearing any kind of robes nor long hair. It has everything to do with a contrite heart and a humble disposition to learn from Jesus himself through the Holy Spirit who is in every true believer in the wonderful and beautiful God’s plan of the ages.
Differences are not caused by not following the Orthodox tradition, but instead by not following the advise of the Spirit through the Scriptures.
There comes a time -and it has yet come for many- when our faith will be tested to the utmost, even unto death. The Pharisees will be again looking for the lives of those who dare to follow “that man” called Jesus. Then it will be seen who is and who is not an overcomer.
I pray for everyone in this forum to be an overcomer in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Blood on the Mercy Seat
The staggering news that the archeologist Ron Wyatt discovered the Ark of the Covenant in 1982 UNDER the exact spot where the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ was when He was crucified stark naked, and His own blood dripped down onto the Mercy Seat, exactly the way Daniel prophesied in the 9th chapter said it would, is just beyond mind blowing!
To think that the Antichrist Jews have kept this news TOP SECRET for these 26 years or so, it is just the kind of thing that drove them to disrupt my internet service from apartment 175 the very night I found out myself. After uploading Pastor Eli James’ page revealing the information, my service went down at 1:24 AM, because my son in law was on the Internet the exact time the neighbors made my system crash.
When the Cox Internet service guy came yesterday he could find nothing wrong with my system and yet they could not make contact with my modem from their office. When he went back out to his van, the Mossad guys next door went outside and watched him and then evidently decided to turn my access back on, for when the Cox Service man came back inside, the system was working just fine. He was dumbfounded but I showed him the picture of their Presario 2700 on my desktop as a “shared” computer, and he was convinced that my neighbors were hacking into my system. You can see that picture on my Mac page.
No wonder the terrorist state of “Israel” wanted that blocked. Not only does all this information prove that they are “unbiblical” as I’ve been saying all along, based on the charts on Daniel 9, but Revelation 17 proves that they and their Rothschild Banking Cartel are the 8th Beast of Revelation. (See charts on my page).
Not only is “Israel” NOT made up of the true Israelites, but we American, British, Swedes, Germans, Norwegians, French and Anglo Saxons, are all the True Israelites and the “so called Jews” are the impostors from Edom. The Edomites. The Synagogue of Satan that our Lord identified in Revelation 2:9 and 3:9, and the seed of Cane. They are Canaanites NOT Israelites and Baptists can’t tell the difference.
When Ron Wyatt took the blood he found on the Mercy Sear to a lab in “Israel” they reconstituted the blood and began to examine it. When the guy at the microscope discovered that it had only 23 Chromosomes and only a SINGLE Y, all from a mother and NOTHING from a human father, adding up to ONLY 24 Chromosomes all together, when humans all have 46, he called his boss over and they all began to talk in Hebrew as fast as they could.
Ron had no idea what was going on.
When they got all the scientists together after they’d discovered it was impossible for anybody’s blood to have ONLY 24 Chromosomes, they finally asked Ron Wyatt:
“Whose blood is this?”
“It’s the blood of your Messiah” Ron answered.
To think that “Israel” has kept this secret all these years proves it’s not a hoax like their Holocaust. If it had been a hoax it would have been all over “the news” here in America and around the world where the media is all owned by the Antichrist Jews. The most staggering information to come out in 2000 years, and they don’t tell us!
In 586 BC the prophet hid the Ark away in a cavity on Mount Zion, evidently not knowing that the Lamb of God would one day hang naked on a cross, just above where he had hid the Ark of the Covenant and the Mercy Seat. God’s Providence is so exact that when He says the blood of His Son will be sprinkled on the Mercy Seat, you can trust what YHWH says.
To go to my page featuring Pastor Eli James introduction to Ron’s research into this earth shaking event, and then on to Ron’s video explaining how he found the blood of Christ under the site of the cross, go here:
http://web.me.com/skipbaker5/Welcome/FLASH.html
If you don’t believe me when I say the Mossad is camped next door constantly messing with my uploads, go here:
http://web.me.com/skipbaker5/Welcome/ADL_Watchers.html
Great Babylon, that Great Whore of Revelation 17, is falling! Its evil and plans over the past 2000 years that have been “Mystery Babylon” and they are being exposed for what it all is: The Antichrist. The Talmudists are suffering the exposure of their false religion as a result of what they did to us on 911. Each day more and more people learn what really happened and with the movie Missing Links, the world is waking up.
They are about to install their Mark of the Beast and those who haven’t put their faith in Jesus Christ are going to take the “Mark” in the right hand. It will be just a small chip that will make it so handy for shopping and “buying and selling.” All you’ll need to do is pass your hand over a sensor at the 7/11 and your account will be debited. It will seem so harmless and so handy. The International Antichrist Jewish Bankers will go to a one world currency soon and millions of people are going to accept the Mark of the Beast while millions of others will wake up in time to refuse the Mark.
We are so close to having this happen, yet the whole world is terrified of even saying the word “Jew” that they are going to take their Mark, so as to avoid being called “anti-Semitic.” The thought is so terrifying to most people they’d rather get the “Mark of The Beast” rather than be called a “crazy anti-Semite.” The devil has set up the unfaithful just right, and since they believe the Rapture Doctrine, that the Jews gave them in 1909 in their Scofield Study Bible, the stage is set.
Skip
Whose Idea was it to extend His Divine FORGIVENESS to the entire Human Race? Was it a Patriarch, Metropolitian, Archbishop, Bishop or Theologian’s idea?
Who said
“Yes, GOD loved the world so much
that He gave His Only Son,
so that everyone who believes in Him
may not be lost
but may have Eternal Life.
For GOD sent His Son into the world
not to condemn the world
but so that through Him
THE WORLD MIGHT BE SAVED.”
Answer, Jesus Christ, the Only Eternally Begotten SON of GOD THE FATHER! Jn 3:16-17
And who is responsible for God the Son’s Incarnate Birth into our World so dire in need of being SAVED?
The Woman of Genesis 3:15. The Blessed Virgin Mary. The Most Holy Theotokos.
And the Book of REVELATION reveals this following Divine Mystery and Supernatural Spiritual Truth:
“Then the dragon/serpant was enraged with THE WOMAN and went away TO MAKE WAR on the rest of her children, that is, all who obey God’s Commandments and bear witness for Jesus.” - Revelation 12:17
- Fr. Joseph
My dear children, I have lavished these gifts upon you with special graces for twenty centuries, BUT WITH WHAT MISERABLE RESULTS.
Those are the Words of God YOUR Father in Heaven to Mother Eugenia back on July 1, 1932. On-line in the public domain reference
http://www.theworkofgod.org/Library/Trinity/Father/Message1.htm
In order that the World might know His Anger, the HEAVENLY FATHER is preparing to inflict a Great Chastisment on ALL Mankind.
The words of THE WOMAN, the Mother of God, the Most Holy Theotokos to one Japanese Carmelite Nun, Sr. Agnes back on August 3, 1973. On-line public domain reference:
http://www.theworkofgod.org/aparitns/Akita.htm#messages
- Fr. Joseph
We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of the American society or wide circles of the CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY realize this fully. We are now facing the FINAL CONFRONTATION between the Church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel and the anti-Gospel. This confrontation lies within the plans of Divine Providence; it is a trial which the whole Church…MUST TAKE UP.”
Karol Cardinal Wojtyla - November 9, 1978
quoting from the on-line public domain reference at
http://www.johnmallon.net/Site/The_Partys_Over.html
- Fr. Joseph
From the Peccatus (Occult) Altar Underground Magazine:
I (SATAN) shall intest Your flock, Lord of Mercy, Your pure of heart are few and weak, and I am strong. They shall fall before me on their knees in worship or they’ll eternally writhe in agony in flaming torment. In a sea of indifferent suffering, Your holy shall flock to me in an orgy of sin and they will realise there is no place of eternal peace. No place at Your side. Only me and my way. I accept them and their souls for they have come willingly I still see the vision of Your holy begotten Son being upon the Cross. Thorns, blood, and flesh. Suffering. The Chosen One, the dying Messiah, glorious was t he day of the first death. Your flock mourned and I rejoiced…and again I rejoice, for have failed…”
“…for have failed…”
WHO has FAILED to do WHAT both in the nations and states of our World as well as IN His Own Church here on earth?
Think on that!
- Fr. Joseph
The Church names the sixth Deadly Sin ACEDIA or Sloth. In the world it calls itself ‘Tolerance’; but in Hell it is called ‘Despair’. It is the accomplice of the other sins and their worst punishment. It is the sin which believes in nothing, cares for nothing, loves nothing, hates nothing, finds purpose in nothing, lives for nothing, and only remains alive because there is nothing it would die for. We have known it far too well for many years. The only thing perhaps that we have not known about it is that it is MORTAL SIN!
- Dorothy L. Sayer - “Creed Or Chaos?”
- Fr. Joseph
The appeal of Our Lady of Fatima is so deeply rooted in the Gospel and the Tradition that the Church feels that the Message IMPOSES a commitment on her.
- Pope John Paul II at Fatima
http://www.fatima.org/WEOP/popesays.asp
Our Lady warned that if man did not stop offending God, He would use RUSSIA as His chosen “instrument” to PUNISH the World…
At Fatima, Our Lady (the Most Holy Theotokos) declared: ‘ONLY I CAN HELP YOU.’
http://www.fatima.org/essentials/whatucando/crisis.asp
Heaven’s Key To Peace
http://www.heavenskeytopeace.com
“Do not court DEATH by the errors of your ways, nor invite DESTRUCTION through your own actions. Death was NOT God’s doing…
HE TAKES NO PLEASURE IN THE EXTINCTION OF THE LIVING.” - Wisdom 1:12-13
- Fr. Joseph
So many words!! Which of us has the answer. Are we just groping in the dark?
Brother Nathanael has witnessed for himself just how DESPERATE so many people in and on the streets of New York City want to hear all about and learn all about Jesus.
“…nuclear war plans called for aiming two one-megaton bombs at each of the following; the three airports serving NYC; Wall Street; each major bridge; all major rail centers; all power stations; four NYC area oil refineries; and the NYC port facilities.”
http://www.rense.com/general52/nuc.htm
I work at Newark Liberty Airport in order to earn the money I need to support myself and what I do as a Priest in the Church’s Monastic Brotherhood.
I do not want to see a single child from New York City or from ANY city or place throughout our contemporary World instantenously turned into burning ashes and cinders in an Illuminist initited thermonuclear Third World War.
- Fr. Joseph
There is one Christ, but so many Christian denominations..
But, in the face of the AntiChrist, one world currency, one world government, the Talmudists and the Mark of the Beast, the ANSWER is for all Christian denominations to unite against this threat and leave their other divisions behind..(in this regard)..that’s the ANSWER.
Hi golden nugget,
quote:
Can you explain to me why your branch of Christianity(Catholism) contradicts everything the Bible proclaims. For example the Ten Commandments says THOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME.
end of quote
I am kind of curious, given that you refer to the ten commandments.
In Romans 7, Paul discusses a law which has the characteristic of exposing sin – this after Calvary and Christ’s ascension. He quotes from this law: “You shall not covet.” If you look in the margin of your Bible, you can find where he is quoting from – Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5, both givings of the ten commandments.
Here is another quote from the biblical ten commandments.
Exodus 20:8-10a
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.
golden-nugget – do you try to observe this portion of the ten?
The seventh day was sanctified by God before man even sinned.
Here is an interesting tidbit. The events which this weekly day of rest commemorates DID NOT OCCUR ON THAT DAY! (They occurred on the other six days.) Meanwhile, man does the opposite. He picks a day for the reason that an event (a wonderful event) occurred on.
Just the opposite of the weekly Sabbath.
But, the following may be my favorite facet of the Sabbath.
The death that is the wages of sin and which is described in Romans 7 is one a person experiences while remaining conscious. “The commandment came, sin revived, and I died.” In short, this death is the burden of any painful feeling when one sees his evil.
Christ, though sinless, was burdened with the same. “He despised the shame.” Now, while Jesus felt despair, He did not CONSENT to it. My point is this.
There are two deaths and two resurrections – one physical and the other spiritual. Sunday looks to the physical (shadow). Meanwhile, the spiritual took place just before our Saviour physically died.
Guess which death and resurrection God’s Sabbath, in once again looking backward in time, points to?
Jesus max’ed out shame, guilt, embarrassment, and any other painful feeling. He triumphed by faith within the experience.
And the seventh day Sabbath memorializes that.
Sunday, man’s Sabbath, memorializes shadow while God’s Sabbath points to “very image.”
Blessings,
Tony
Dear KathJuliane,
Sorry for the delay in my response to you. I had a quite busy day…
The first thing I would say is that I never heard of Francis Shaeffer or of his son Frankie until you mentioned them. Actually, I have not to ask myself how is it that Mr. Shaeffer converted to Orthodoxy. I don’t give much importance to this type of “proofs”, for there are also people who convert from any other religion to a different one, distinct from his or her background. Now, what I try to attach myself to is the sound doctrine of the Scriptures. You’ll see, in the Scriptures, there is but one faith and one baptism; one Lord, one Spirit and one body.
Regarding “Sola Fides” and “Sola Scriptura”, I must tell you what I have yet told Stav: I am not a Protestant nor I answer for them. Furthermore, I think the book of James is quite clear that a faith without works inspired by it is like if it was dead. Maybe that is the reason why Luther hated so much the letter of James, I mean, James alone is a refutation of the “Sola Fides” principle as presented by the Protestant world, and especially by the wild versions of it like Calvinism and the “feel good churchianity” you see today in America and the West.
Now, regarding “Sola Scriptura”, how can a true believer ignore what the apostle Paul says to Timothy on this matter?
“…Everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.” (2 Timothy 3:12-17)
If I am not wrong, Timothy came to be in charge of the church in Ephesus. And in the passage above we have a testimony from the apostle Paul that the Scriptures are able to make someone wise for salvation in Jesus Christ. If any other thing would have been so important regarding being a Christian, Paul would have told it to Timothy… For me, the silence of Paul in this is more valuable than a thousand “holy books” written by hermits and other “holy men”.
Monastic life is NEVER mentioned in the New Testament. And the appreciation I have for BR. Nathanael has to do with his courageous evangelistic work in the streets of the devilish nation the USA has become lately. It is a courage that I, a non-denominational Christian, healthy envy, and I hope the Lord gives me the courage and the strength to tell things like they are while walking on the streets of my nations.
As for the “types and shadows”, I think you have misunderstood the meaning of that expression of Paul. Actually, you would have the hardest time in proving that our Lord was done with the OT Scriptures. I could extend on this in a future post, for it is an issue most worthy of being addressed.
Now, regarding Greek words in the Septuagint and in the NT, do you really think the Holy Scriptures were written originally in Greek? Because there are MANY MANY proofs that they were written in Hebrew and Aramaic (OT) and in Aramaic (NT). So if there was to be an Apostolic Tradition in the sense you give to this expression, it should be found in the Church of the East, where the liturgy is read in Syriac Aramaic.
Yet another thing regarding human “experience”. What does the Lord says through the mouth of Jeremiah:
“Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD.” (Jeremiah 17:5)
“The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
“I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve.” (Jeremiah 17:9,10)
You say the best evangelism “does not come out of Scripture, it comes from the struggling to be a decent imitation of Jesus Christ in life and family.” But I say instead that you cannot be a decent imitation of Jesus Christ in life and family if you despise his written word.
I could continue, but I think my main point is already quite established. Maybe I could add some more in further posts.
Blessings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Hi Mariano,
You say:
First of all, I must clarify that I am not a Protestant. I was born in a Roman Catholic environment…
Point taken. I probably assumed too much, although you stance sounded protestant.
You say:
As such, I cannot help but read what the apostle Paul writes to the Corinthians in his first letter to them:
“I appeal to you, brothers…
Yes, one must follow Jesus Christ. But in what way must one follow Him? What does this practically mean? If one is for example a married man, or married woman, this definitely does nto mean that they can copy His life to the exact detail. Thus, one must set some set of rules, which determine how we Follow Christ. And what happens if we decide on different rules?
You quote:
“Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you?…
Not Christ is not divide, however , us humans are divided. And the reason for this, is because we have set different rules for what it means to be Christian.
You quote:
“There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— one Lord, one faith, one baptism…
How can any Christian refute these words? I for sure don’t. But this still leaves the question standing, what if people decide to separate them selves from a Christian Group? Separation and division of Churches happens. Thus we are left with two facts:
1) Separation of Churches happens,
and
2) The bible says that there is ONE body.
Thus, when the churches separate, from the above, we can determine logically, that ONLY one of the Churches is the true Church. But which one?
You say:
Talking about Ephesus… How did you come to know that John venerated icons?
Well, the fact of the matter is, that this is deduced. The first Christians, did not address the question of icons in an official way, yet they did not divide. Thus one can assume that whatever Christian did in fact have icons, they were not considered heretics, until the question became very public. When this happened, the Church determined that it was not wrong to venerate Icons, but rather it is wrong to worship the wood or any other material thing. In addition of course to worshiping anyone else other than God.
You say:
You cannot know that except through Orthodox account. Have you tried to find out how Orthodox accounts were obtained?
You say:
The problem with Orthodox, Roman Catholic and even Protestant accounts is that they fail to seek a scriptural pattern…
And what is your proof of the above statement? Especially when it comes to the Orthodox? Every single Orthodox doctrine and belief has a heavy and profound scriptural basis. Obviously this is too long to provide proof here, but any honest search for this, even on the internet will provide this for you.
You say:
on which every true born again Christian can rely with safety.
The concept of a Born Again Christian, is a Protestant one. The Orthodox believe that while one can be reborn (through the baptism) the struggle with sin, is one that one must fight every single day, whether reborn or not. In fact, it is the concept of a “saved” and still living Christian is totally against Scripture.
You say:
Some years ago I learnt that Luther hated so much the letter of James that he placed it at the very end of its translation of the Bible, following the book of Revelation!
I am not sure what your point is here.
You say:
As for Orthodoxy, I felt once attracted to attend a Russian Orthodox liturgy, were a young monk provided my with a few booklets containing teachings that you simply won’t find in the Scriptures.
Please supply us with a sample of these “teachings”. I assure you that the vast majority of the teachings of the Orthodox Church is totally supported by Scripture. The rest is implied and derived from common sense and definitely not contrary to the Scriptures.
You say:
He never asked me regarding my faith in Jesus Christ or whether I had repented of my sins…
Repentance of sins is at the Heart of Orthodox practice and it is nearly impossible that you were not exposed to this message. References to repentance are everywhere in the services and tradition on the Orthodox Church, not to name the most common prayers we use.
About the Mother Church issue you mention, I will try to reply later as I do not have too much time today… One thing I am going to say here, is that the Church is viewed as the Body of Christ, in Orthodoxy, and not simply as a collection of people. Also, we do not consider any living person to be a saint, the reason is because before death, there is no predetermined conclusion to one’s life.
You say
You say tradition is all we have… Speak for yourself, Stav; speak for yourself…
I mentioned the fact that the Holy Bible you exclusively trust (by the way, which language and version of the Bible do you read?) is the direct RESULT of tradition. Thus, it is ESPECIALLY you, who has only tradition holding in your hands, when you hold the Bible. Can you refute this fact?
Tradition is the greater sum of the experiences, memories etc. related to the faith. For example, if you had a child of your own, and you taught them about the faith, then, after you were gone, they would have the Bible, AND the memories and experiences you provided for them.
That, is tradition or “Paradosis” as so fantastically presented by KathJuliane in a post above. In this example, what you are essentially saying, is that your child should discount everything you tell them, and only trust the Bible. But then, what if they never get to read the Bible? Or never get to read it when on the right frame of mind? What if they are never taught to pray by example? All of these things are traditions, perhaps small ones, but that’s what they are.
You say:
All of them are full of traditions of men which have no support in the OT nor in the NT, and oftentimes are even plainly contradicted by them.
Please provide some of the traditions that you think have no support in the OT or NT.
You say:
The Melchizedek priesthood in Christianity has nothing to do with wearing any kind of robes nor long hair.
Agreed, I only mentioned these items to denote that even the external appearance has similarities.
You say:
It has everything to do with a contrite heart and a humble disposition to learn from Jesus himself through the Holy Spirit who is in every true believer in the wonderful and beautiful God’s plan of the ages.
Actually the significance of Melchizedek, is more deep than that. This is by the way, a perfect example on how your “Sola Scriptura” mentality has deprived you of important understanding.
Hebrews 7 1¨3
1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Here we see that Melchizedec is the king of Salem (”salem” meaning peace in hebrew). Thus, this is an attribute of Christ.
Further in 3:
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
All of these attributes, are ones of Christ. Thus a priest, after the order of Melchizedec, is a true priest, one that is supposed to be an image of Christ. This is by the way also the premise that implies the non priesthood of women. The hair, beard and even the attire, signify this order. So while it has no doctrinal significance in a practical way, it is still significant in that it reminds us that a priest, follows the order of Melchizedec.
You say:
Differences are not caused by not following the Orthodox tradition, but instead by not following the advise of the Spirit through the Scriptures.
What you fail to see, repeating my self again, is the following things:
1) Even Scripture IS tradition.
2) Holy tradition, is of the Spirit, and it includes more things than just Scripture.
3) Holy(or Apostolic) tradition as presented by Orthodoxy is not contrary to Scripture but rather directly mentioned or implied. In fact it is complementary.
Thus, your statement above, to the Orthodox at least, is not entirely correct in this context.
You say:
There comes a time -and it has yet come for many…The Pharisees will be again looking for the lives of those who dare to follow “that man” called Jesus….
Agreed, as Christians, we must before anything else live together in Brotherly and In Christ love. With this as a premise we can start to settle our differences.
I realize that Orthodoxy can sound, look and feel almost shocking to any other kind of Christian. However if nothing else, be advised that it is the Church which has preserved and keeps the most pure and close to the original Christian faith.
A personal search for this truth will convince you, no one can do this for you. do not take my word for it, look for your self and you will find it. As KathJuliane has already mentioned, this search for the true faith, has led many people to Orthodoxy. Read their stories, and you will find the answers there.
The theological richness and pureness may surprise you, after it you get past the shock and awe of it all…
Stav
http://www.wyattarchaeology.com/
Ron Wyatt Archeaologist and the Ark of the Covenant
“Also in that cave Ron found the seven branch candlestick, a giant sword (with no inscriptions, but possibly Goliath’s), an ephod, the wilderness tabernacle, the altar of incense among other things. Ron has returned to the cave on occasion, and since his first visit the cave has been completely tidied up. Ron has been told (although he stresses he does not hear voices, and is not a prophet) that the time is not yet for the world to see this discovery with their own eyes.
The time is coming when the inhabitants of the world will have a universal, religious law enforced upon them. This law will force man to break God’s law, by penalty of disenfranchisement (being unable to buy or sell, Rev. 13:17).
Some time after this law has been passed, God will allow the tables of stone (The 10 Commandments) and a good clear video of the Ark of the Covenant to be put on public display. (For more information on the proposed law download a small booklet here.) “It is time for thee, LORD, to work: for they have made void thy law.” Psalm 119:126.
Whilst in the chamber, Ron noticed a dried, black substance in an earthquake crack in the roof, above the Ark of the Covenant. He noticed that this black substance was also on the lid of the cracked stone casing. Obviously, this substance had dripped from the crack in the roof, and provision had been made for it to land on the Ark of the Covenant, as the stone lid had been cracked and moved aside.
Ron wondered what substance could be so sacred, that God made provision for it to land on the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant. He remembered the earthquake crack at the foot of the cross hole, and suddenly an awesome realization as to what had happened, came over him. Ron traced the earthquake crack, and indeed it was the same crack as the one at the cross hole.
The dried black substance in the crack was tested and proved to be blood, apparently the blood of Jesus Christ. The Bible says that when Jesus died there was an earthquake and the rocks were rent (Matt. 27:51). A Roman soldier speared Christ in His side in order to make sure He was dead, and blood and water poured out (John 19:34). Ron discovered that this same blood and water poured down through the earthquake crack and fell upon the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant.
Human cells normally have 46 chromosomes. These are actually 23 pairs of homologous chromosomes. In each pair of chromosomes, one of the pair is from the mother and the other member is from the father. Therefore, 23 chromosomes come from the mother and 23 from the father. In each set of 23, 22 chromosomes are autosomal and one is sex-determining. The sex-determining ones are the X chromosome and the Y chromosome. Females are XX, so they can only contribute an X chromosome to their offspring, whereas males are XY, which allows them to contribute either an X or a Y. If they contribute an X, the child is female, whereas if they contribute a Y, the child is male.
The fascinating finding in this blood was that instead of 46 chromosomes, there were only 24. There were 22 autosomal chromosomes, one X chromosome and one Y chromosome. This evidences that the person to whom this blood belonged to had a mother but no human father, because the normal contribution of paternal chromosomes is missing.
1John.5.8, 9: “And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.” What does Daniel 9:24 mean, when it says, “To anoint the Most Holy.”?
The rest of the verse refers to events that occurred at the cross. Did this also, then occur at Jesus’ crucifixion? The Hebrew word for Most Holy is, “qodesh haq-qodeshim”. It is used several times in the Old Testament and always refers to the Most Holy place, or furniture in the Most Holy place ie. the Ark of the Covenant. This then must be a prophecy that Christ, on the cross, will anoint the Ark of the Covenant, with His blood.”
Dear Skip Baker,
I could not let your shocking revelation go by without comment. Namely the discovery of both the Ark of The Covenant, and the DNA material of our Saviour! I believe that in what you say, that you are completely earnest and without guile, here. However, the standard of proof which the prudent person would presume necessary to verify your report is understandably a high one.
I will read all materials I can find related to the most remarkable evidence you present. Hopefully, you will keep us apprised of any more details as they become available. Thanks for your cutting edge research on this holy subject. Hopefully more links or comment from you will follow, and I wouldn’t expect such an amazing find to recede into the background without more discussion.
The Peace of Christ Be With You.
Dear Stav,
Too many things to be addressed after your latest post.
From all the things you say, I´ll keep for now this one: “A personal search for this truth will convince you, no one can do this for you. do not take my word for it, look for your self and you will find it.”
I think you are a honest man, I didn´t mean to sound gratuitously harsh in my previous post addressing you.
So I will do a search regarding the Orthodox doctrines and then I´ll tell.
Oh, the versions of the Scriptures I read the more are the Reina Valera 1960 (Spanish), the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (a critical edition with a huge critical apparatus) and the Syriac Aramaic Peshitta (both OT and NT). But of course the list goes on…
May the Lord Jesus Christ give us all more light and understanding in these hard times of trial.
Mariano
Homosexuality was forbidden in Germany until the seventies.
Never the National Socialist saw Homosexuality as masculine and nothing to do with a Greek androgyne People.
Dear Mariano,
Agreed, I hope I did not sound too harsh either.
In the Lord Jesus Christ.
Stav
Dear readers of real zionists news .
As I never heard the claims on the alleged findings mentioned above(Skip Baker’s message), I Have taken a couple of minutes to perform a “research” on the Internet.
What I found is mostly refutations regarding Mr. Ron Wyatt discoveries.
I’ll not express my particular opinion, but will kindly ask those interested to make a Google search with:
“Ron Wyatt fake” or “Ron Wyatt hoax”
Or just read links shown in the following:
http://www.newdaynews.com/openhouse/archive.cgi/noframes/read/40649
Note:
As expected, a website like RZN will attract the attention of different kind of people with good will or intentions and others with hidden agendas.
I ‘ll ask Mr Skip Baker to apologize me as there is no offence intended to him or any other person, in writing this message.
On the other hand, and this is exactly my point of view, I guess that the Christian faithful do not need any other hard evidence to assert the Divinity of Jesus Christ our Savior.
Juan
May the following enlighten many a people’s minds with regards to ‘The Bible’ with an eye to the rampant evils swirling about on planet earth an in it’s “World”.
Chapter markers and verse numbers were not included into ‘The Bible’ until around the time of the 12th century and were first included in the Latin Vulgate of the Western Latin Church.
On-line reference
http://www.bible-researcher.com/chapter-verse.html
- Fr. Joseph
Now then, with respect to God’s ARK OF THE COVENANT, the Risen Lord Jesus Christ tells St. John to RECORD the visions he was to receive SO THAT Divine and Supernatural Truths and Realities could be UNVEILED for one and all to see and understand in the Book of ‘Unveiling’ which we all commonly refer to as ‘The Book of REVELATION’.
- Fr. Joseph
The TEXT contained within St. John’s written account of the Supernatural and Divine VISIONS that our Risen Lord and Savior Jesus Christ granted to him by God Incarnate Himself DID NOT have chapter and verse divisions until the Latin Vulgate.
Hence, the following verses from the ‘Book of Revelation’ which can be said to be God the Holy Spirit’s ‘Book of Unveiling Supernatural Truths and Realities’ that we all can now refere to as Revelation 11:19 to Revelation 12:1 ought to be read as a seamless and UNINTERRUPTED thought:
“Then the Sanctuary of God in Heaven OPENED, and the ARK OF THE COVENANT could be seen INSIDE it. Then came flashes of lightning, peals of thunder and an earthquake, and violent hail. Now a Sign appeared in Heaven; A WOMAN, adorned with the sun, standing on the moon, and with the twelves stars on her head FOR A CROWN.”
- Fr. Joseph
The Risen Lord Jesus Christ, the Word, the Logos, through Whom ALL THINGS were made, reveals to St. John who then reveals to the rest of us members of the Human Race that the ARK OF THE COVENANT is in God’s Heaven!
And that ARK OF THE COVENANT happens to be A WOMAN!
Please take a moment to consider the mind and thought HALTING significance of the World, THE LOGOS, Supernatually Revealing to St. John that God’s ARK OF THE COVENANT happens to be A WOMAN!
- Fr. Joseph
The ADAMIC Covenant God Himself makes to and on behalf of ALL MANKIND is found in Genesis 3:15 which reads:
“I (God, THE LOGOS) will make enemies of each other;
you (Satan) and THE WOMAN
your offspring and her offspring,
It will crush your head
and you will strike its heel.”
- Fr. Joseph
So THE WOMAN who is Supernaturally revealed by the Risen Lord Jesus Christ (Who is THE LOGOS, that is to say, God Himself Who becomes one of us human beings in His Incarnation) in Revelation 11:19-12:1 is the SAME WOMAN who winds up ENRAGING Satan, the Devil, and who goes off to MAKE WAR against her and HER SPIRITUAL OFFSPRING!
Revelation 12:17 (16 verses AFTER 12:1)
“The the dragon was ENRAGED with THE WOMAN and went away to MAKE WAR (cf. Genesis 3:15) on THE REST OF HER CHILDREN, that is, all who obey God and keep His Commandments.”
- Fr. Joseph
The Family of God here on earth are those who obtain LIFE from this Woman whose First Born Son happens to be THE LOGOS, God Incarnate, the Eternally Begotten Son of God the Father Himself.
This WOMAN happens to be BOTH our Human Race’s “NEW EVE” and also happens to be the Spiritual MOTHER of Christ Jesus’ CHURCH her on earth.
- Fr. Joseph
Back in 1884 A.D., the BISHOP OF ROME, one Pope Leo XIII is granted a mystical revelation much like St. John, the writer and recorder of his Supernatural mystical revelations recorded in what we know call the ‘Book of Revelation’.
That Bishop of Rome, Pope Leo XIII, overhears and personally witnesses a challenge lodged by SATAN against THE LOGOS.
On-line reference for everyone’s reading
http://www.geocities.com/stmichaelsangels
33 years later to the month, THE WOMAN of Genesis 3:15, THE WOMAN of Revelation 11:19-12:1, THE WOMAN of Revelation 12:17, appears to three children in Fatima, Portugal as OUR LADY OF FATIMA in 1917 A.D.
- Fr. Joseph
The ARK OF GOD’S OWN COVENANT with all of Mankind from Genesis 3:15 all the way up to Christ Jesus’ Own Personally Instituted NEW COVENANT with all of Mankind, THE WOMAN, instructs the Bishops of THE LOGOS’ Church here on earth to perform a very specific COLLEGIAL CONSECRATION for the entire World to see.
This COLLEGIAL CONSECRATION was to be a GLOBAL public and solemn RELIGIOUS ACT that the entire World would see and witness.
And IF that Collegial Consecration per the very simple and precise Instructions of THE WOMAN of Revelation 12:17 were accomplished by the Appointed Ecclesiastical Authorities in THE LOGOS’ Church here one earth - that is to say those who have VALID Apostolic Succession to THE LOGOS’ Own Chosen APOSTLES - the THE LOGOS would see to it that all of the SPIRITUAL CHILDREN of THE WOMAN here on earth would be granted WORLD PEACE!
- Fr. Joseph
And why would THE LOGOS use His Divine Supernatural Powers to see to it that the entire Human Race would be granted WORLD PEACE, and freed from ALL the evil that the dragon, the serpant, that is to say THE DEVIL, SATAN, is currently DOING TO the Human Race all over our contemporary World of Nations in this year 2009 Anno Domini?
Because, SCRIPTURE HAS IT:
“For THE LORD upholds THE RIGHTS of a Mother over her children!”
- Ecclesiasticus 3:2
- Fr. Joseph
In Old Testament times, WHENEVER the peoples of the OLD TESTAMENT Israel went off to fight A WAR against their enemies, the would DUTIFULLY bring forth the man-made representation of God’s ARK OF THE COVENANT.
The would DUTIFULLY place that man-made represenation of the ARK OF THE COVENANT upon the shoulders of the TEMPLE’S PRIESTS who would then publicly CARRY and DISPLAY that Ark of the Covenant before ALL THE PEOPLE and the entire Army as they went off to CONFRONT, to COMBAT and so as TO DESTROY the manifold enemies arrayed against them.
The PUBLIC and SOLEMN Collegial Consecration instructed by THE WOMAN for the BISHOPS of the LOGOS’ OWN CHURCH here on earth - if not done and carried out in a spirit of obedience to the One Who saved and redeemed the ENTIRE HUMAN RACE - will result in the spiritual victory of THE SERPENT-DRAGON-DEVIL-SATAN over so many millions upon millions of Human Beings of our contemporary World of 2009 Anno Domini.
Without the ARK OF THE COVENANT in God’s Heaven who happens to be THE WOMAN of Genesis 3:15, Revelation 12:17, being PUBLICLY and SOLEMNLY called upon and relied on by God’s People of the New Covenant in His Blood shed for all of Mankind on the Roman Cross - His People of the New Covenant have no chance of gaining spiritual victory of THE SERPENT of Genesis 3:15.
- Fr. Joseph
All of the theologians, the pastors, the preachers, the teachers, the Patriarchs, the Metropolitans, the Archbishops, the Bishops, the Priests, the Vowed Religious, the members of the Lay Faithful who DENOUNCE and REJECT and IGNORE what the Mother of THE LOGOS had to say about what to do in order TO DEFEAT her and our spiritual ENEMY in her 1917 A.D. Fatima, Portugal PUBLIC Apparition are all working WITH the Devil, WITH Satan, WITH Lucifer, is seeing to it that Her Son’s Divine Will for all of Mankind is NOT carried out to a successful completion.
They have a great, great, GREAT personal responsibility before the Sight of God Himself, for they are UNDOING what God Himself desired and desires to be done for the Salvation and Redemption of Mankind!
- Fr. Joseph
Dear RZN Christians,
Please take a moment to consider a request sent to me by a friend in true time of need, a Veteran who watched five of his friends die and many more injured when the U.S. ammunition dump in Doha, Quatar unexpectedly, spontaneously exploded due to storage of unstable munitions in uncovered airtight containers, in the desert heat and sun. This friend is loyal and a true soldier:
“Please send this on after a short prayer. Prayer for our
soldiers. Don’t break it!
Prayer:
‘Lord, hold our troops in your loving hands. Protect them as
they protect us Bless them and their families for the
selfless acts they perform for us in our time of need. Amen.
Prayer Request: When you receive this, please stop for a
moment and say a prayer for our troops around the world.
There is nothing attached. Just send this to people in your
address book. Do not let it stop with you. Of all the gifts
you could give a Marine, Soldier, Sailor, Airman, &
others deployed in harm’s way, prayer is the very best one.
GOD BLESS YOU FOR PASSING IT ON!
Live your life every moment.”
I think that’s all they have, a prayer, so make it a good one.
Whether some guy claims to have found (or not) the blood of Jesus is irrelevant.
What is important is the MESSAGE of Jesus.
Take the Bible, and all early philosophical works, with a grain of salt. They were written metaphorically. The message is what is important, not the “literal” histories of the stories. People can’t see the forest for the trees.
In my opinion, the Bible was written via scribes receiving the Divine Word. God “dictated” his Word in a manner that was applicable to human understanding at the time. The wisdom and guidance found in the Bible is what is important, not whether the stories are literally true.
Not all Christians live a Christian life. And not all atheists/agnostics live a life of debauchery. With time, both “Jack” Christians and atheists alike will awaken to the ultimate purpose of life. God’s plan will be fulfilled.
And yes, Mossad is living next door to you.
Dear Stav,
I have begun some readings on the Greek Orthodox Church. The text I am reading, prepared by the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, has to do with monasticism, and you can find it at http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith7103.
The first thing I have to say is that there seems to be a misunderstanding regarding the words of Jesus about being in the world but not of the world. In my view, this has nothing to do with monasticism. You can infer this by reading what the apostle Paul said to the Corinthians:
“I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.” (1 Corinthians 5:9-11)
Now, the way in which monks, nuns and hermits try to fulfil Jesus´ advice is by separating themselves from everyone, trying to “leave this world”. If monasticism and eremitism was the intended will of God for his people –or even some of his people-, would the apostle have said to the Corinthians such words? No, on the contrary, he would have encouraged the keeping of distance not only from those who calling themselves brothers live an immoral life, but also from every other people in the world.
The call of Jesus of being in the world but not like the world is a general call to every true believer, and not only to a special and restricted body of people.
The text mentioned above also says: “These people [i.e., monks, nuns and hermits] considered themselves Christians selected to live the life of angels (Matt. 22:30).” But what does the Lord say in Matthew 22:30 when addressing the Sadducees?
“At the RESURRECTION people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.” (Matthew 22:30)
Even when it is well known that Jesus was refuting the Sadducees for their denial of a personal, physical resurrection, we can clearly see by his very words that the lack of marriage of the sons of God is intended for the once dead and then resurrected ones.
Furthermore, monasticism as conceived by Orthodox believers also seems to contradict what the apostle Paul taught to the Colossians:
“Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.” (Colossians 2:18-23)
In summary, I think it is crystal clear from the Scriptures that monasticism -with all its minutiae and speculations regarding daily life- does not please God and has no value in restraining sensual indulgence. This can only come as a result of being filled with the Holy Spirit.
I will continue reading about Orthodox doctrines and customs and giving my opinion on them –always appealing to the Scriptures which are a common authority among us- in a future post.
Blessings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ
Dear Lynda
Back on the 21st, you wrote me ‘There are many agents of mega death in the world, of which thermos are only one.’
That caused me two days worth of ‘flashbacks’ as I served in the U.S.A.F. over three decades ago.
We find these words posted in the public domain:
“He will succeed in seducing the spirits of the great scientists who invent arms, with which it will be possible to destroy a large part of Mankind in a few minutes. Satan wil have in his power the leaders who command the people and who will incite them to produce enormous quantities of arms. …
There will be death everywhere, because of the errors committed by the crazed and the followers of Satan, who will then and only then rule the world.’ - on-line ref
http://www.world-mysteries.com/mdl_12.htm
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Lynda,
The very last USAF weapons system I worked on were these
http://www.a-10.org
It spits out a 1 pound projectile made of DEPLETED URANIUM at a rate of 3,000 to 5,000 rounds a minute. That is, it’s capable of spitting out 1.5 to 2.5 TONS of Depleted Uranium in one single solitary minute.
The Depleted Uranium was meant to be used against the hordes of Warsaw Pact T-62 main battle tanks which outnumbered NATO tanks by about 5 to 1.
They used this stuff against the people of Iraq who had absolutely nothing to do with the bogus, fake and staged 9-11 “Arab” terrorist attacks.
And the Iraqiis did NOT have any weapons of mass destruction despite the constant lying of those in the previous Bush Administration.
This is what Depleted Uranium DOES to people:
http://www.rense.com/general70/deathmde.htm
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Lynda,
Honestly, I tried and tried and tried again to get my U.S Federal and State government officials, U.S. religious leaders of ALL sorts and ALL types to include my own Catholic Church, Federal and State Law Enforcement, Army and Air Force National Guard Commanding Officers, civic organizations, the very Jewish controlled Mass Media outlets - TV, radio and print -
TO STOP & HALT THE DEPLOYMENT OF U.S. ARMED FORCES TO PLACES LIKE IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN on account of the BOGUS ‘INSIDE JOB’ 9-11 ATTACKS!
- Fr. Joseph
This is what a ONE POUND Depleted Uranium projectile looks like, folks.
http://www.a-10.org/photos/p.asp?FileName=05%2Ejpg
In Europe, where the A-10 was intended to stop-halt massive Warsaw Pact T-62 main battle tanks, when an A-10 killed a number of T-62s or whatever, the assigned USAF Forward Air Controller assigned to either a US Army or USMC combat unit which was threatened by massive enemy armor was to RADIO BACK to Battalion headquarters so as to report the area where Depleted Uranium was used.
HQS was to put a bit FAT RED ‘X’ on their battle grid map so as to ensure that NO US Army or USMC ground forces would enter and dwell within the area in the future.
US Army and USMC troops coming back from Iraq and other places are going to become very sick - and some will die - on account of DU.
And they aren’t told about it.
- Fr. Joseph
Weapons systems…weapons systems…weapons systems..mega death…mega death…mega death
We got Weapons of Total Destruction
http://www.viewzone.com/haarp44.html
Scalar Weapons of Total Destruction
http://www.prahlad.org/pub/bearden/scalar_wars.htm
We have JUAN, an electrical engineer here on RZN who can explain to us all what appears in the Gaiacomm Executive Report paragraph contained in parenthesis and which begins with the words
(Generation of geomagnetic-field aligned ionization…et al) from this webpage
http://www.gaiacomminternational.com/popup.php?popup=p1
- Fr. Joseph
Everyone here in the USA can check to see just how close they are to a nuclear target here
http://www.survivalring.org/cd-targets.php
Pictures of what the remains of a nuclear blast on cities and people can be found here
http://www.hiroshima-remembered.com/photos/index.html
- Fr. Joseph
Our Merciful God and Father in Heaven HAS GIVEN ALL OF MANKIND a way “Out” of this global geo-political Satanic Trap, but I can’t get people both INSIDE as well as OUTSIDE of THE LOGOS’ MILITANT CHURCH HERE ON EARTH interested!
Heaven’s Key To Peace
http://www.heavenskeytopeace.com/
So if the Patriarchs and Metropolitans and Archbishops and Bishops and Priests and Monks and Nuns and Sisters and Vow Religious and Lay Faithful - and that INCLUDES the POPES of the Catholic Church - don’t want to pay any and all attention to what is going on in our contemporary World,
then you have the FULFILLMENT of the 4th century prophecy of St. Nilus
“Christian Pastors, Bishops an Priests will become vain men, completely failing to distinguish the right hand way from the left….Then the All-good God will see the DOWNFALL OF THE HUMAN RACE…” from
http://www.fisheaters.com/nilus.html
- Fr. Joseph
It’s really, really hard trying to do your duty to ‘God & Country’ when so many here living the Good, Easy and $$$’d life here in the U.S.A. couldn’t are less for either GOD or their Country!
http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/
- Fr. Joseph
September 10, 2008
His Excellency Dmitriy Anatolyevich Medvedev
President of the Russian Federation
Iiinka Street, No. 23
103132, Moscow, Russia
Excellency,
God has given all men free will with the Divine expectation that they will employ wisdom, prudence, charity and justice towards each other. Yet the international events since August 7, 2008 which have adversely affected Russian citizens and the Russian Federation serve to validate the following words spoken by our Lord and Savior Jesus, the Christ, regarding sinful human natures:
“For from the heart come evil intentions; murder, adultery, fornication, theft, perjury, slander. These are the things that make a man unclean.” - Matthew 15:19
(continuing for anti-spam’s sake)
- Fr. Joseph
http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/Prophecy_of_St._Nilus
“The ~Prophecy of St. Nilus~ is an apocryphal work of uncertain origin (thus often referred to as the ~Prophecy of Pseudo-Nilus~) predicting the apocalypse to occur in the 19th or 20th century (depending on the version of the text). As there are serious problems with the text, it is clear that it was either not written by St. Nilus or that it has been altered in translation.
With the advent of the Internet, the work has taken on the status of urban legend.
The Prophecy claims to be written by a saint named Nilus, variously the 4th century St. Nilus the Ascetic, the 17th century St. Nilus the Myrrhstreamer of Mount Athos, or someone from the 14th century.
Problems with the text
The most obvious problem with the text is one of dating. It claims to be regarding either the 19th or 20th centuries with varying levels of internal consistency in the actual text. Some, for instance, read “After the year 1900, toward the middle of the 19th century,” which is contradictory, since starting with the year 1901, the 20th century began. Additionally, with several different versions circulating, especially with variances in this key opening phrase, it would seem that the text has been altered, so one cannot be sure about the period it supposedly is addressing.
The claim that the Prophecy is from the 4th century is also problematic, as in the 4th century it was not yet the practice of Christians to date from the birth of Christ, a practice introduced only in the 6th century by Dionysius Exiguus (”the Short”), a Roman monk. In the 4th century, dating was still calculated from the Creation, the founding of Rome, from the accession of the current emperor at Constantinople, or from the time of Diocletian according to the Indiction.
Even after its introduction by Dionysius, it did not come into general use in the West until the 8th century.
Eastern Christians waited even longer to use the Nativity (BC/AD) as a dating point. Most Orthodox Christians began the practice only after the fall of Constantinople, while the Church of Russia introduced it only with the time of Tsar Peter the Great (16th/17th c.).
Even aside from these problems, a “21st century” version has yet to surface, meaning that the Antichrist supposedly appeared around 1950 and has yet to take over the world.
The ethic of the Prophecy has problems, as well. It focuses on external appearances much more than the more serious problems of immorality, which were just as much present (and arguably even more so) in the various eras in which the text was allegedly written.
Further, no known source for this text has yet surfaced.”
September 10, 2008
President Medvedev (con’d)
I’ve enclosed twenty (20) copies of an Icon of the Most Holy Theotokos with the hope that your Excellency will consider distributing these copies to other key leaders and government officials of the Russian Federation. It is my prayer that the Mother of God will grant you and the other leaders and key government officials of the Russian Federation the necessary Divine Graces of her Divine Spouse, God the Holy Spirit, so as to guide the Russian people and their Russian Federation through these most treacherous and difficult times in contemporary international developments and our world’s history.
Aa a former military man myself, having served within the United States Air Force over 30 years ago, I am acutely aware of the indiscriminate destructive powers that can be unleashed by nations, to include the U.S.A. and the Russian Federation, upon each other and the peoples of other nation states. The Old Testament book of Wisdom admonishes all leaders of the nations of the earth to consult with God, appealing to Him for His Wisdom and Guidance, for it is written:
“Do not court death by the errors of your ways, nor invite destruction through your own actions. Death was not God’s doing, He takes no delight in the extinction of the living.” - Wisdom 1:12-13
(continuing)
-Fr. Joseph
September 10, 2008
President Medvedev (continuing)
It seems to me that even since ancient times, those of us who truly wish to live in peace with our neighbors, with our own countrymen and with the peoples of other nations and states, never have the political clout, the economic resources, the financial means, nor the military strenght to make such a vision for ourselves and all others a living reality.
Nevertheless, as a Priest in His Church, I have a moral and spiritual duty and obligation to inform your Excellency that our God and our Creator has made Divine Provisions for His People here on earth to have World Peace amongst all the peoples of our much troubled and suffering world.
Russian intelligence, security and military services along with the Patriarch and Metropolitans of the Russian Orthodox Church can use any public domain sources, such as the Internet, to examine the historical and recorded newspaper/media accounts of the Apparitions of the Most Holy Theotokos as Our Lady of Fatima, Portugal back in October 1917 A.D..
(continuing)
-Fr. Joseph
September 10, 2008
President Medvedev (continuing)
The Mother of God earnestly desires for the Bishops of the Western Church to perform a public and solemn Collegial Consecration of RUSSIA to her Immaculate Heart so as to make available every manner of Divine Blessing, Comfort, Protection and Assistance to the Russian people and their Russian nation so as to avoid the trials and sufferings caused by the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917 A.D.. Additionally, if that Collegial Consecration of RUSSIA were accomplished, our Lord and our God would see to it Himself that the entire World would be granted a Blessed Period of World Peace!
(continuing)
- Fr. Joseph
September 10, 2008
President Medvedev (continuing)
Your Excellency, if you were to confer with the Patriarch and all of the Metropolitans of the Russian Orthodox Church about the possibility of readying the Russian Orthodox Church Hierarchy to make such a religious/spiritual Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of the Most Holy Theotokos along with/in conjuction with the Patriarch of the Western Church, that is, the Bishop of Rome, there exists the very real possibility of bestowing upon all the peoples of Russia as well as the peoples throughout the many nations/states of our contemporary world God’s Own Divine Blessings and His Divine Peace upon them and all of their children!
(continuing)
- Fr. Joseph
September 10, 2008
President Medvedev (continuing)
I am quite confident that if the Patriarch and Metropolitans of the Russian Orthodox Church or, for that matter, all the Patriarchs and Metropolitans of any of the Eastern Orthodox Churches had any questions about this issue regarding the Collegial Consecration of your nation, Russia, to the Immaculate Heart of the Most Holy Theotokos, the Lord Himself will grant whatever Knowledge, Understanding and Wisdom to my own Metropolitan Archbishop to answer any and all of their inquiries.
May the prayers of St. Vladimir, St. Tikhon and St. Seraphim gain you God’s Favor and Assitance in these spiritual and all contemporary global geopolitical matters. Amen.
In the service of our Lord and His Mother, I remain,
Respectfully yours,
+Fr. Joseph
Archimandrite - Nazareth Hermitage - USA
Enclosed
20 Icons of the Most Holy Theotokos
1 Icon of the Most Holy Theotokos dealing with Worldwide Evil
1 Icon of St. Tikhon, Patriarch of Moscow
1 Icon of St. Seraphim
1 Image of the Holy Family of Nazareth
Hi Mariano,
Wow, you certainly jumped into the deep end! I mean in this in a joking way, by the way.
I read your comments on it, and on the basis of it, it is quite protestant in its core view. In fact, again, this view is the natural outcome of having no Holy Tradition to rely upon. On the bottom of this page you will find the lives of the saints Anthony and Athanasius which will provide you crucial information about monasticism and its root.
This is part of the tradition I am talking about. Imagine a Christian name such as Anthony, yet western non-Orthodox or non-Catholic Christians know nothing about the man! The same goes with all other Christian names by the way.
In my view, the passage you quote, does not actually infer that the world is for all, nor is it something to be pursued or necessarily joined into. I mean that in the strictly spiritual sense. Nor does it infer that Monasticism, as practiced by the Orthodox is contrary to the Scriptures.
It’s funny, though, because your research today started from a point which may answer many of your questions. Saint Anthony, was the first, great ascetic to organize this practice.
But, he was one of the spiritual Fathers of Saint Athanasius, who was a true Theological Giant and has also documented parts of Saint Anthony’s life. St. Athanasius has a lot of insight has has provided extensive Theological analysis that answer many of today’s “sola scriptura” and general protestant views. Reading the writings of St. Athanasius will give you great insights.
Before I go on about Saint Anthony, may I remind you of the first essential Monk, who is Saint John the Forerunner (Jesus Christs Cousin) who lived his life in the desert, which is also part of the spark that started monasticism.
In Orthodoxy, and in a practical way, we view monasticism as one of two paths that one can take in life. An Orthodox person who decides to become a monk, will typically feel the intense drive to become a monk and leave the world behind. They will then embark in a “scrutinizing” of this feeling, which may take along time, and will take the help of the spiritual father and a lot of prayer and dedication.
If they then decide to actually become monks, again the process is not instant, they will usually go through a trial period and then will at some point become full monks. Many “trial monks” or “Dokimoi” in Greek, will eventually not decide to go through with it, or may take significant time to make their final oath.
Practicing and faithful Orthodox Christian friends and family of the monks to be, will take this final decision with the same happiness that they would if they were to be married. That is the practical aspect.
Also, it is important to note here, that the Orthodox monastic practice, is DRAMATICALLY different to the Catholic one. The main purpose of monasticism in Orthodoxy, is for one to try and do everything possible with the most possible intensity to save their souls. The main focus is not social service (although it may and is usually included in some form, in a monks activities).
This is not to say that one human can save their own souls, but rather, that in Orthodox monasticism, one focuses almost exclusively to a life of prayer, fasting , forgetting about worldly concerns and trying to get closer to Christ.
This is not to say that a married person or a person that is not married but lives in the world, is not supposed to do their best, to come closer to Christ, but rather that a Monk or Nun will drastically remove distractions from this task.
In fact, the Orthodox view is, that can, and should treat their in-the-world-life also similarly to the life in a monastery. Many times, advice from spiritual fathers to family people and Christians in general is to make a monastery in their lives/home.
Most essentially, the core of monasticism is that it is a movement, that is derives by a Holy and burning fever, much like falling in love with a man or woman, but more spiritual and profound, to follow the words of Jesus Christ to the letter. Scriptural references to such words of Christ are characteristically:
1) The whole sermon on the mount.
2) St. Mark 8, 34 to 37 :
34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them: “Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it. 36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? 37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? 38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
There are many more like this. Many people read or hear these and sometimes feel an internal very strong feeling to follow what is implied very very clearly.
For example this:”For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?”
Also I remind you Jesus Christ’s advise to the rich man: “Give away all your belongings and follow me”…
These are a clear reference to the World and that one could gain (some) of it but loose their soul. This is what made and still makes some people to make drastic descisions, and to leave the world behind, as a sign of their very strong intention to have their souls saved, and follow Christ completely.
As you can see, monasticism in this light, is very much supported, even inspired, directly by the Scriptures. This is not to say that some simply have a strong feeling or even personal revelation that this is the best way of life from them.
About St. Anthony:
http://www.roca.org/OA/73/73d.htm
About St. Athanasius:
http://www.roca.org/OA/6/6g.htm
Stav
…(Generation of geomagnetic-field aligned ionization to control the reflection/scattering properties of radio waves will result in a number of outcomes. It will jam unwanted signals, make data stealth, and focus RF signals to localized areas to selectively ignite the surrounding atmosphere, which will create a flash burn effect.
This effect will incinerate all air and ground living and non-living entities. In short, a military weapon of unprecedented proportions with no nuclear radiation generated aftereffects. This device can use the surrounding atmospheric layers to burn off everything in its path without firing a single shot. Localizing atmospheric area techniques to selected targeted areas can also be accomplished with this heating process. In short, using the Compton effect to alter the air to ground electric charge. This is even more effective than EMP during a nuclear blast.)…
Well, these kinds of things could only be the results of a deranged mind. The name and surname of the guy that prides himself with this , speaks thousand words…
Father Joseph, they are using tremendous amount of energy to produce a channeling effect in the ionosphere (from 1 to 2 Gigawatt)
According to this brochure, using strong enough transmitters, apparently they found a method to channel a very low frequency energy and direct it were necessary, using a waveguide like effect of the atmosphere.
Compton effect predicts that an incident photon strikes an electron, and the interaction produces an energetic electron and a scattered photon. So we must have the energetic flash first (photon generation) and a multiplicative effect producing energetic electrons.
During the process tremendous amounts of heat is generated and this, dear father Joseph, is what they want, heat to burn us alive! They can efficiently heat the atmosphere surrounding us.
Dear father is it possible for a Christian human being design a weapon of mass destruction , specially of the kind one under consideration?…
Please pay due attention to the fact that the overwhelming majority of leading scientists in the Manhattan project were Jews.
Obviously the thing had a corresponding similar in the USSR and elsewhere.
And we must not forget the designer of the neutron bomb…
Anyway, as far as my very humble, limited knowledge and wit allow me to envisage, the technological difficulties involved in turning this yet another nightmare into a workable WMD, will surely take much more than the Jewish mastermind suggest.
The whole brochure is more commercial than technical and the guy still seems to be in the investor procurement phase.
Dear Father Joseph,
Regarding Scalar weapons of total destruction, involves Bearden theories and others (Zero point energy,etc) and are still very much speculative because they collide frontally with the established wisdom of classical electromagnetic physics as per Maxwell-Heaviside and Lorentz (wave equation et.al).
Misterious filamentar ethereal entities that apparently permeates the entire cosmos are rather difficult concepts to be accepted by the scientific comunity.
As far as I know, it’s probable that something else is there, hidden from us.
He and others secured an US patent for a motionless electromagnetic generator and claim that generates more electrical output power than given to the input!
Hi Fr Joseph,
I have not previously addressed my self to you directly, but may I say that many of your posts are very informative and very interesting and insightful. It is obvious that there is some tension, expressed mainly in silence, partly due to my critical approach towards Catholicism in the context of Orthodoxy.
Putting this aside, I consider you a worthy and honest man, who fights the same fight most of us do here on this site. I hope that our doctrinal differences may not hinder my, (and I assume your) intention to keep this whole thing in the spirit of Brotherly love and the fact that we do and say all we do in the name of Lord Jesus Christ and for His glory.
Regardless, when it is relevant, I will speak up my concerns or point out the differences between our Churches, but please do not take these comments as personal attacks. These kinds of issues have somehow become my concern, and I feel compelled to respond sometimes, probably due to my raising in a mixed Christian denomination environment, where might I add, after my careful examination I concluded that Orthodoxy is the way to go, if you want to be Christian.
On to my points:
I took the time and read the accounts and story behind the Apparitions in Fatima. My first thoughts about this event, was that after all, The Most Holy Theotokos, will most certainly follow her Son’s commands and principles, and therefore may appear to anyone God’s infinite wisdom judges it to be necessary. Thus, I am not going to be one to discount this apparition as fake or not, simply because it happened in a Catholic setting/context. Nor do I disagree with the core of Her message of repentance and more prayer, which of course is good and urgent advice.
In the Church’s tradition, especially as mentioned in a large number of Lives of the saints and other sources, we have had had seemingly arbitrary apparitions by Jesus Christ Himself to non-Christians even, and there also also stories of Apparitions of His Most Holy Mother and other Saints, to Christians and non-Christians as well.
Thus, my point above, stands, meaning that She can appear to anyone God’s wisdom deems appropriate.
But, I would not nearly anywhere readily accept this event to be some kind of complete and absolute unconditional “endorsement” of all that Catholicism stands for. In fact, as taken directly from the account of the apparition, we do not see any kind of information that “tackles” the doctrinal issues (or errors in my view, which require the collective repentance of the RCC). But that’s as far as I will go about this.
In addition, I’d like to comment to your paragraph of your post:
…Russian Orthodox Church can use any public domain sources, such as the Internet, to examine the historical and recorded newspaper/media accounts of the Apparitions of the Most Holy Theotokos as Our Lady of Fatima,…
I would also recommend for anyone interested, especially ones that are impressed and inspired by the apparitions in Fatima, to examine, investigate and read about the countless apparitions of Christs Most Holy Mother, that have been documented in the context of the Orthodox Church.
Some examples follow (for the sake of shortening this post, please follow up on these by your selves, if you want):
1) Practically all of Mt. Athos monasteries have one or more Icons of the Theotokos, which are connected with miracles and stories, including messages given by the Theotokos:
http://www.mountathos.gr/active.aspx?mode=en{00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000005}View
2) The story of the Icon of the Theotokos on the island of Tinos:
http://full-of-grace-and-truth.blogspot.com/2009/03/miraculous-icon-of-theotokos.html
3) Link listing various apparitions (including the Fatima one):
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/mary.htm
I am sure you know that there are many, many apparitions by the Theotokos, but I presented this case here to point out that:
1) The Fatima appearance does not represent an unconditional endorsement of Catholicism, and
2) That there are many more apparitions and communications that have happened, making the Fatima simply one out of many more and not a unique occurrence.
Finally, let me say that the specifics given about Russia etc. as presented in the account of the Fatima apparition, can be interpreted in various ways, not all supporting the Catholic point of view.
It is clear that from what I see as the Russian state progresses through our times, at least the way I interpret this, is that Russia is indeed becoming more Christian everyday, but it is Orthodoxy it is re-embracing.
One more thing, let me remind all of us our “good friend” apollonian by my following statement: That these apparitions (and I include all of them here, contextualized as Orthodox ones and the one in Fatima) are “subjective” in nature, that can readily be denounced by anyone for a variety of reasons (not that I am necessarily one to do so), and in most cases, they deal with urgent messages and mostly do not deal with doctrinal issues.
Acceptance of these kinds of events, is a highly personal matter derived by personal experience, faith and other contextual matters to each person, regardless of their faith flavor.
Thus, it would be inadvisable in my humble opinion, to use them for anything else but personal examination and other reasons applicable to each, individually. It is also therefore inadvisable again IMHO, to use them to convince anyone of anything. It is clearly accepted generally that if one does not intend to believe, they can see miracles and still stay unbelievers.
Stav
Dear Juan,
My, my…got my work cut out for me (as usual) and so little time. Got something for Stav to read, but for the moment -
Everyone can test/try out the New Wonder Weapons “the crazed and followers of Satan” have crafted. Regarding the Compton effect. Here’s The Weapon everyone can use on each other!
“Have Fun!”
http://www.freewebarcade.com/game/ant-city/
The Russians don’t like the New Wonder Game Toy, however…
http://www.rense.com/general28/deathray.htm
Gotta go off to work. See ya later.
- Fr. Joseph
I have faith that God is listening to our prayers. Let’s not let up for a second. He hears us!
Dear Stav,
I understand your point from closer than you could imagine, for before I devoted myself to study the Scriptures seriously -with a practical focus in mind, and far off from any Protestant or whatever bias- I myself felt the appeal of “going out to the desert” to live Jesus´ teachings in a purer way.
I think this came as a result of being a huge reader of Dostoyevsky’s work, specially “Karamazov Bros”, with its main character Alyoscha and the way he treated people, including his infamous father Fyodor Pavlov. I’m talking about my twenties, some eighteen years ago.
I think I understand very well the monk’s mind, and not only by reading Russian novelists… I myself have felt -as I tell you above- the impulse of becoming one to serve the Lord with all my soul. But… would you believe me if I tell you that such inner commotion was something fleshly, even when I would have had myself killed before recognizing such thing?
You mention John the Baptist as an antecedent for Orthodox monasticism. But you should mention Elijah, who lived in the wilderness and went dressed in camel robes, eating weeds and wild honey. And I think you also forgot to mention that John came in the power and the spirit of Elijah, as we read in Luke’s account. In other words, John was not linked to Saint Anthony in the future but to Elijah in the past.
And I insist: if monasticism was so crucial for the Christian life, the passage in Colossians 2 simply wouldn’t be there. It has everything to do with the issue, even if this is troubling for you or for anyone else.
Don’t go and assume that just because I told you that I would read about the Greek Orthodox Church I have never read about it, nor I have never saw and heard things pertaining to it. I am a most prolific reader since I was a teenager, and I never stop until I had “caught” the issue I am interested in. Of course, you couldn’t know this by just reading a few lines from me here at Br. Nathanael’s site; that’s why I am telling it now.
If I quoted the Lord himself and the Apostle Paul in my previous post, it is not because I wanted to “win” a point, but because I SINCERELY believed they were most pertinent in the context of our exchange of views and beliefs. And I still believe it. Please, stop comparing me with the Protestant mind, because that is quite distortive of my actual inner and outer life. I am not an American; much less neither a WASP, nor I feel at home with such worldview. This doesn’t prevent me to be in contact with Protestants, just like I am also in contact with an Orthodox like you.
I would really like to continue my revision of the Greek Orthodox faith in future posts, only that I have a strong conviction about what I read in the Scriptures and I wouldn’t like this exchange with you to become a fleshly attempt of us to “win” the other’s recognition.
Maybe it would be more fruitful to address one thing at the time, and discuss it at length. I don’t know about this… just thinking in a loud voice.
In Christ Jesus,
Mariano
Dear Stav,
Until the end of the Pius XII pontificate (1958), the pope with the bishops (this was a collegial position) had decided that the appearance of Our Lady at Fatima in 1917 was “worthy of credence” and the pronouncements contained nothing contrary to faith or morals.
Devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and promulgation of this devotion.
They permitted the tremendous response to the Fatima message that occurred on the part of the laiety: the rosaries, the First Saturday Devotions, the petititions for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by the pope and all the bishops - the solemn, public, collegial consecration.
As you might be aware, the Russian genocide was suppressed by the Western media. I hope you do not find it offensive that the Roman Catholics (at the behest of Our Lady) were praying for that predestinate nations which has given martyrs to Our Lord Jesus Christ numbered in the tens of millions: Orthodox, Catholic Uniate and Roman Catholic (Ukraine, Baltics) as well as Reformed and Protestant.
So when Our Lady spoke of the “errors of Russia”, by the time of Pope Pius XII, these errors had already taken a fearful toll
To continue,
The Third Secret of Our Lady was to be released in 1960 or at the death of the visionary Sr Lucia (Sr Maria das Dores of Carmel)- whichever came first.
The Vatican, however, has never released it.
Despite much sensationalism of catastophes, even before 1960 it could be deduced that the Third Secret is not concerned with this because Sr Lucia spoke freely and publicly of the Chastisement from Heaven that would come if mankind did not repent and stop offending God, she spoke of the “annhilation of nations”.
Once asked about the Third Secret, ‘cardinal’ Ratzinger (who had read it) replied, “concerns only our faith”. Only. This is vintage Benedict the Minimalist. I am sure everyone heaved a sigh of relief. Because all of Our Lady’s prophecies at Fatima have been precise and those that have been fulfilled have been precisely fulfilled.
But those who can see, perceive by the clear light of the Church’s own Magisterium, that an antipapacy currently occupies the Chair of Peter in Rome.
Historically, the Chair was seized in the 1958 Conclave and the true pope in law taken hostage, Pope Gregory XVII.
Since that time, the antipapacy has gone about the business of extinguishing the sacramental life, the faith and morals of the Church.
The bishops who were ordained prior to the the change in the Rites of Consecraton post Vatican II have valid orders, but their number grows fewer every year.
To continue
The Petrine Succession is now with the Successor of Pope Gregory XVII and his bishops. This is the Roman Catholic hierarchy. There is no temporary state or arm to protect them. However, to the Roman Catholic faithful, they have not been silent on the subject of Fatima.
This event, the appearance of Our Lady of Fatima in 1917 is Signum Magna, the Woman Clothed with the Sun Rev 12.
Her prophecy over the Church (the Third Secret) fulfills the prayer of Pope Leo XIII who foretold that the Chair of Peter, set up in Rome as a light to the Gentiles would be overturned by impious enemies of the Church and the abomination of their impeity would be placed there.
The Pastor would be struck and the flock scattered.
This prayer appears as the Exorcism Against Satan and the Rebellious Angels May 18, 1890. It was issued in Pope Leo’s ‘moto proprio” 25 Sept 1888 and was published in the Racolta up until 1932 as ‘official prayer’ 407.
Please read this prophetic prayer in full.
A priest of the Roman Catholic Church attatched to the Chair of Peter, the Holy Father in exile, said at the Easter Sermon in 2007 that now “is the hour of the power of darkness” when the power of anti-Christ would be “given strength over the continual sacrifice and truth be cast down to the ground.” Dan 8:12 (Fr Peter Khoat van Tran)
It is recognized that the sacramental life of the Church has been extinguished over entire continents because of the antipapacy.
The faithful are to remain communicatio in sacris, making spiritual communions with the few (very few) valid masses that are still being said, praying the Rosary and taking refuge in the Immaculate Heart of Mary as sufficient grace for us at this time of the Church in Eclipse.
The great cause of our time is ‘to restore all things in Christ: Catholic order and the papacy’. In addition to the corporeal and spiritual works of mercy, this is the apostolic work in which the faithful are bidden to take part.
This is not someone’s private idea, this is the bishops speaking collegially with the Holy Father: Roman Catholics are not bound by Vatican II in any way shape or form. Refuge in the Immaculate Heart of Mary is sufficient grace unto salvation - to sanctify ourselves and obtain graces for many souls many of whom will never have a single valid priest or mass on their entire continent for their entire life.
In the end, when the entire Roman Catholic hierarchy is ready to be martyred for the faith, I am sure they will make the solemn, public collegial consecration
Re:The Serb-Croat antagonism. The documented reality is that the Serbs in both royalist and communist Yugoslavia were the ruling and priviliged nation and that they ran the country with the help of the army and police. It is important to bear in mind that in Serb-dominated communist Yugoslavia history was systematically falsified.
The virus of evil which again emerged in that part of the world in the 1990s of the past century has its roots in Serb territorial expansion and colonisation to the detriment of its neighbours. It is well documented but virtually unknown in the west that Serb forces slaughtered by conservative estimate some 100 thousand Albanians in Kosovo and Albania just during the peacetime period of 1918-1924.
In the most fertile area of Albania 167 villages were reduced to ashes. Tens of thousands of Moslems, Macedonians, Montenegrins, Croats and members of the Hungarian and German minority suffered the same fate. In Croatia in 1935 alone Serb extremists and gendarmes without cause killed 96 Croat peasants and two Catholic priests. While the German invasion of Yugoslavia was under way, before a single Serb was killed by the Ustaša, some well over 300 Croat civilians, including several dozen women and children were killed by Serb troops.
Tens of thousands of Croat civilians and POWs were massacred by Serb partisans and royalists(Četniks) during the war. In the initial stages of the uprising against the Ustaša regime, in July and the first half of August 1941, Serb insurgents massacred some 1.100 Croat civilians and several hundred POWs. An unknown number of Moslems were also killed. During the immediate post war Period, May-Sept. 1945. Titos communist forces, for the most part made up of Serbs, massacred by conservative estimate some 300,000 people, mostly Croats. Thus far in Slovenia(where those turned over by the British were marched through) a total of 654 mass graves have been found, in Croatia 834 and in Bosnia (where no real effort has been made to locate them) c. 100.
The story of the Serbs in the 20th century can best be summed up in the maxim: Tyrannies do not improve, they perish. Perhaps the last stage of that process ended when Montenegro regained its place as a sovereign nation of the European community. The Serb Orthodox Church is more akin to a cult whose central fiure is St. Sava and not the Saviour. Its primary role in history has been to further illegitimate Serb territorial gains as summed up in the motto: whereever there are Serb graves this is Serb land.
I have no illusions about crimes, I’m deeply saddened and ashamed, as are most Croats, by what some Croats did to Serbs during the anarchy and lawlessness in the area during WW II. Yet the overwhelming majority of Serbs remain silent on the hundreds of thousands of non-Serbs who were victims of Serb imperialism. I do not hate Serbs, I pity them.
In a sense, their greatest enemies are their own propagandists who have for decades fed them a steady stream of half-truths and myths. On a personal note, as a member of the Croatian army I was badly wounded and captured in 1992, and spent 15 months in Serb captivity.
Suffice to say as the line from a poem goes: “Worse things than death/await a man within the gates of breath”.
Had I not been put on a prisoner exchange list within 24 hours, I would have been dead within a week. One man was beaten to death on top of me in transport, and that’s merely the beginning of the nightmare (my left ear was immediately cut off after capture). I fared well as opposed to many who are no longer here to tell the tale.
To close, I first and foremost want to express my utmost hearfelt thanks for your site, which I follow “religiously”. Will be sending you some cash when my financial situation improves. I think it would be unwise to demonize all Jews (Im in no way suggesting that you do so). Perhaps the majority remain unaware of the activities of those that are in key govt, cultural, financial, etc. positions. With every best wish and many thanks.
Hi Mariano,
Let’s see, can I keep this short? I am having a real trouble keeping my posts short. I apologize in advance.
You say:
And I insist: if monasticism was so crucial for the Christian life, the passage in Colossians 2…
My answer:
I am telling you as sincerely as possible I do not see the relevance, especially in the light of what I mentioned in my previous post, which proves beyond any doubt the logic and scriptural based and inspired practice of monasticism. I simply do not see the deduction you make there.
About what you mention about Elijah, I agree, that there is obviously a connection with that past, and not only with Elijah, but one cannot refute the connection with the future also, even if it is simply the similarity of St. John’s life and the first ascetics and their spiritual descendants.
Again, a lack of saturation in the holy tradition brings the “impression” on one, that there is no continuity nor any relation to the actions of the first church and the Orthodox, but I assure you, there is, it is just that this continuity has been wiped out in many parts of the Christian world. Unless one consciously seeks the true Holy Tradition this feeling of separateness between today’s Christians and the first Christians, will remain there, with potentially misleading results.
About your request for me to compare you with protestants, OK I will not his for you from now on, as I have no intention to offend you, but let me tell you one last time, as I have been growing up in a mixed denominational environment, I just simply cannot help but see the obvious similarities in your approach and views, with the core attitude of “protestants” (using the word “protestants” very loosely).
At least in my view, you share their practical approach of wiping everything clean and starting with a clean page, while at the same time, during the reconstruction process, the lack of access to passed down information creates a natural effect of relying mainly on Scripture.
Also I realize there are time constraints, but if you like and feel that you want to do this, check out some of the writings of St. Athanasius, as I mentioned before. Apart from being very Orthodox in his views and theology, he was also a Genius worthy of study, for anyone reading a lot about Christianity.
In Christ our Lord,
Stav
Dear Linda,
You say:
…I hope you do not find it offensive that the Roman Catholics (at the behest of Our Lady) were praying for that predestinate nations which has given martyrs to Our Lord Jesus Christ…
My answer:
How can I be possibly offended if one fellow man prays for another?
You say:
The Vatican, however, has never released it.
My answer:
I was under the impression that they did, and I was able to find it on the net. It was also mentioned that the RCC did release it at some point. I lost the link however but it should not be hard to find as it took me only a few clicks from my first search.
The rest of your posts content was quite interesting.
You say:
The great cause of our time is ‘to restore all things in Christ: Catholic order and the papacy’. …
I sincerely wish that the first part of this statement takes place, but as far as the second goes, as an Orthodox, I cannot wish for the “Papacy”. The papacy is viewed as a doctrinal error on the part of the RCC for a variety of sound reasons.
You say:
In the end, when the entire Roman Catholic hierarchy is ready to be martyred for the faith…
My answer:
I do believe that there is a very large part of the RCC that is ready do do this, as are in many other Christian denominations. However I would not say that this is true in the “entirety” of the hierarchy. It has been proven that part of the hierarchy, have other priorities and not Christ.
This, is of course not the exclusive characteristic of the RCC hierarchy, we Orthodox have plenty of that too, perhaps not derived from doctrinal error though. We are all humans after all and we can err, just the same.
Stav
Hi joeglas,
With the risk of firing up a huge controversy here, I have to ask:
“Macedonians”?
Now, _that_ is a blatantly falsified history there for everyone to behold.
There is only one type of Macedonian and they are and always have been Greeks.
Thanks,
Stav
Dear Stav,
“Objectively speaking”, whether one is a Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant, Sacred Scripture has these words of St. Paul the Apostle
“For it is not against human enemies that we have to struggle, but against the Sovereignties and Powers who originate the darkness in this world, the spiritual army of EVIL in the heavens.” - Ephesians 6:12
Sacred Scripture also has these words of THE LORD Himself
“Every Kingdom divided against itself is heading for ruin; and no town, no household divided against itself can stand. Now if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; so how can his kingdom stand?” - Matthew 12:25-26
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Stav,
From Sacred Scripture we all read
“The seventy-two can back rejoicing. ‘Lord,’ they said, ‘even the devils SUBMIT TO US when we use Your Name.’
‘HE SAID TO THEM, ‘I watched Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Yes, I HAVE GIVEN YOU POWER TO TREAD UNDERFOOT SERPENTS AND SCORPIONS AND THE WHOLE STRENGTH OF THE ENEMY!’ - Luke 10:17-20
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Stav,
THEN, we have the words of St. Paul instructing the newly ordained BISHOP Timothy:
“You have in you a Spiritual Gift which was given to you when the prophets spoke and the BODY OF ELDERS laid their hands on you; DO NOT LET IT LIE UNUSED!” - 1 Timothy 4:14
The ‘Body of Elders’ were and ARE the Bishops of Christ’s Church here on earth.
Christ Jesus GAVE the power to cast out devils and demons and all of Satan’s strenght to THE BISHOPS of His Church!
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Stav,
So now, WHO GAVE BIRTH and WHO GAVE HUMAN NATURE to the Eternally Begotten Son of God the Father? Who permitted the Second Person of the Divine Trinity, THE LOGOS, to assume a real human nature like yours, mine and the rest of the 6 billion people living on this planet earth of ours?
WHO???
THE WOMAN we in the Western-Latin Church and “youz guyz” of the Eastern Orthodox Church all call THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY, the Mother of God, the Most Holy Theotokos!
And this Christ, the LOGOS through Whom all things were made and are held in being, GAVE the power to trampled down upon ALL of the strenght of Satan and his unseen elemental spiritual minions which, as St. Paul instructs with Apostolic Authority, form the ARMY OF EVIL in the unseen realms!
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Stav,
Did not complete the thought…
Christ Jesus GAVE the power to trample down SATAN and all of the forces of the ARMY OF EVIL in the unseen spiritual realms to THE BISHOPS of His Church Militant here on earth!
With Apostolic Authority, St. Paul instructs newly ordained BISHOP Timothy to NOT let that Spiritual Gift go UNUSED!
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Stav,
Now then, was it the BISHOP OF ROME or the CATHOLIC CHURCH which was responsible for the BOLSHEVIK REVOLUTION in Russia back in 1917 A.D.?
Or was it SATAN and his hordes of unseen spiritual minions working on, with and throughout human beings who brought down so much DEATH and DESTRUCTION upon the people and nation of RUSSIA and her Orthodox Christian MONARCHY?
A simple answer from you and all of my dearest, friendliest, tenderest ORTHODOX from SERBIA or RUSSIA or GREECE who regularly post lenghty exposes of the utter NASTINESS and the ERRORS of the Catholic Chruch here on RZN forums is in order.
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Stav,
“Am I my brother’s keeper?”, the question CAIN throws back in GOD’S FACE after his murdering off of his brother Abel.
So what is the Mother of the Church here on earth supposed to do WHILE all of her spiritual children of the EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCHES are being butchered off by the bushelful? Sit back and IDLY watch from Heaven?
She APPEARS to three children of Fatima, Portugal and gives them a Message to give to the BISHOPS of the Western-Latin Church:
‘HELP OUT YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS WHO ARE BEING MUGGED, ROBBED, KILLED, HAVING THEIR FACES SHOVED INTO THE MUD ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE EUROPEAN CONTINENT!’
The Mother of the ALL ORTHODOX Christians the world over asks her Son’s BISHOPS of the Western-Latin Church TO CONSECRATE RUSSIA to her Immaculate Heart SO THAT she might use her God-given Intercessory POWERS as the Mother of the Church TO CRUSH the heads of the Serpent and his unseen legions of serpents who are KILLING OFF her spiritual children in and throughout her Son’s EASTERN Church!
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Stav,
And what is the spiritual RESPONSE from her Son’s Eastern Orthodox Church’s Patriarchs, Metropolitans, Archbishops, Hiermonks and Theologians to this incredible desire on the part of the Immaculate Heart of the Mother of God, the Mother of His Church here on earth?
That Eastern Orthodox response to the desire of the Most Holy Theotokos TO HELP and TO INTERVENE in the Maternal Protection of HER Eastern Church’s spiritual children, to this VERY DAY as witnessed here on RZN is:
“We Don’t Need Your STINKIN’ HELP From Your STINKIN’ Western-Latin Church - thank you very much!”
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Stav,
So you are a smart, articulate, logical sort of guy. That kinda-sorta grants you the Divine Grace to be IMPARTIAL in your approach to how to judge things when thrown into the midst of a pack of snarling, biting, unruly pack of people asserting their subjective opinions as objective facts.
Lawyers for both the prosecution and the defendent present their side of ‘The Case’ to what is supposed to be a nuertal and impartial JUDGE.
For these foregoing reasons, please do read the article entitled ‘Now Is The Time - Consecrating Russia Will Help, Not Harm, Catholic-Orthodox Dialogue’ by one Cathy Pearson from this webpage
http://www.fatimacrusader.com
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Stav,
Again, trusting in your logic and ability to discern facts in an unbiased and impartial way, I’d like for you to simply VIEW the following on-line documentary entitled ‘Heaven’s Key To Peace’ here
http://www.heavenskeytopeace.com
for a very specific reason - to discuss and ascertain what is truly a private, personal and entirely SUBJECTIVE event vis-a-via a public, universal and OBJECTIVE event.
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Stav,
One time many years ago, someone made the following comment about me…
‘Ask Joe what time it is and he’ll wind up explaining to you how to build a watch!’
Pretty funny, no?
So onwards to examining the inner ’spring’ mechanisms contained within and which tick away in OBJECTIVITY as well as SUBJECTIVITY.
Consider for a moment the UTTER SILLINESS of all the peoples of this World of ours, both inside the Church and outside of the Church, who are ALL going on and on and on about the Fatima Apparitions beings an entirely ‘SUBJECTIVE’ event which need NOT be accepted nor believed by any indivdiual or groups of individuals, whether IN and OF the Christian Church or not with the following comparision and example.
Back on 9-11-2001, three thousand people in the World Trade Towers were deliberately murdered, crushed to death, when those Twin Towers were deliberately blown down by detonation devises built into those Towers.
People from all around the entire World were FORCED to see those Twin Towers crumbling down with those 3,000 still inside over and over and over again.
Now I ask you, was that an entirely ‘SUBJECTIVE’ event witnessed by the entire World via the Jewish controlled Mass Media of TV, radio and print? If it were truly ‘SUBJECTIVE’ in nature, does that not imply that NO ONE need to believe that the 9-11-2001 “Arab” terrorist attacks occured?
And if it were ‘SUBJECTIVE’ in nature, then why, o why, are theres so many people dying from these WARS? Why are so many government officials and leaders INSISTING that this entirely ‘SUBJECTIVE’ event actually took place and they ALL THE REST OF US throughout the World have to “Jump Through Hoops” in order TO ACT UPON as if we are to actually believe 9-11 took place??
Now contrast this…
If you watched the Heaven’s Key To Peace on-line documentary, you are told of and show actual PHOTOGRAPHIC IMAGES of 70,000 people who were at one moment DRENCHED BY RAIN and were standing ankle deep in MUD. And AFTER the Fatima Miracle of the Sun which the Most Holy Theotokos said would take place, all of those 70,000 RAIN-DRETCHED and WALLOWING IN MUD people found themselves INSTANTANEOUSLY dry and standing on DRY solid ground.
‘OBJECTIVELY’ speaking, this Miracle really and truly DID take place via Divine Intervention thus making it NOT of a ‘Subjective’ nature - and if it is NOT of a ‘Subjective’ nature and is TRULY of an Overt Objective Nature, the peoples of the world both inside and outside of the Church ARE REQUIRED TO BELIEVE it really and truly took place!
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Stav,
What would YOU and the rest of ALL the members of any and all of the Eastern Orthodox Churches throughout the entire World say about ANY and ALL Patriachs, Metropolitans, Archbishops, Bishops, Hiermonks, Theologians of ANY Orthodox Church if ANY ONE OF THEM came out in public, on T.V., before 6 billion human beings on our contemporary planet earth in order to say to ALL the Inhabitants of Planet Earth that…
“THE 9-11-2001 TERRORIST ATTACKS IN THE USA DID NOT - REPEAT - DID NOT OCCUR - AND THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON WHATSOEVER TO BELIEVE THE MEDIA-NEWS REPORTS OF SUCH 9-11 TERRORIST ATTACKS - AND ANYONE WHO CLAIMS OTHERWISE MAKES HIMSELF OR HERSELF A HERETIC OF THE ORTHODOX CHURCH AND IS HEREBY EXCOMMUNICATED FROM THE SACRAMENTS!”
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Stav,
Again, what would YOU and KathJuliane DO if the Orthodox Church’s Hierarchy were to PUBLICLY tell you that the reported upon 9-11-2001 Terrorist Attacks were but a SUBJECTIVE HALUCINATION that you and KathJuliane had experienced - and while it might be a matter of purely PERSONAL and SUBJECTIVE encounter with it in the Mass Media, you and KathJuliane are entirely ABSOLVED from having to bother thinking about it and are STRONGLY encouraged to dismiss the Mass Media reports of the 9-11-2001 Terrorist Attacks?
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Stav,
I am entirely capable of WINDING UP the inner ‘Spring’ tighter and tighter and tighter still - but due to the DANGER of actually causing DAMAGE to the Inner Workings of anyone’s Spiritual Springs working within their mind, hearts, souls and spirits, I’ll leave this line of posting alone for a while.
Somebody might actually ‘SNAP’!
- Fr. Joseph
Maybe there is still hope for this world yet. I have been indoctrinated with Anti Russian ( Soviet Union ) propoganda my whole life that it is difficult to believe they are more holy than us(USA).
We are so perverted, immoral, sex crazed, licentious, and homesexual in ths country that it makes you wonder who is really Atheist. Russia or America? America has let the far left Liberal, Communist Zionist Jews remove everything out of this country that is even remotely Christian or religious.
I do believe that since the discovery of America, (The New World) in 1492 up until around the Civil War we were a Christian whole heartedly. But ever since the 1870’s we have been in a slow decline towards paganism. Especially since WWII has been over we have been on fast forward towards Sodom and Gomorah. The DAMN MEDIA!
Greetings in the Lord Jesus from No Calif in US of Talmudistan
Heads up, gentle RZN family, something in the real and practical American world that seriously caught this reader’s attention:
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=98895
FAITH UNDER FIRE
Home: No place for Bible study
County demands pastor spend thousands on ‘Major Use’ permit to host friends
Posted: May 22, 2009
5:13 pm Eastern
By Drew Zahn
© 2009 WorldNetDaily
A San Diego pastor and his wife claim they were interrogated by a county official and warned they will face escalating fines if they continue to hold Bible studies in their home.
The couple, whose names are being withheld until a demand letter can be filed on their behalf, told their attorney a county government employee knocked on their door on Good Friday, asking a litany of questions about their Tuesday night Bible studies, which are attended by approximately 15 people.
“Do you have a regular weekly meeting in your home? Do you sing? Do you say ‘amen’?” the official reportedly asked. “Do you say, ‘Praise the Lord’?”
The pastor’s wife answered yes.
She says she was then told, however, that she must stop holding “religious assemblies” until she and her husband obtain a Major Use Permit from the county, a permit that often involves traffic and environmental studies, compliance with parking and sidewalk regulations and costs that top tens of thousands of dollars.
And if they fail to pay for the MUP, the county official reportedly warned, the couple will be charged escalating fines beginning at $100, then $200, $500, $1000, “and then it will get ugly.”
Dean Broyles of the Western Center for Law & Policy, which has been retained to represent the couple, told WND the county’s action not only violates religious land-use laws but also assaults both the First Amendment’s freedom of assembly and freedom of religion.
“The First Amendment, in part, reads, ‘Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’” Broyles said. “And that’s the key part: ‘prohibiting the free exercise.’ We believe this is a substantial government burden on the free exercise of religion.”
He continued, “If one’s home is one’s castle, certainly you would the think the free exercise of religion, of all places, could occur in the home.”
Broyles confirmed the county official followed through on his threat. The pastor and his wife received a written warning ordering the couple to “cease/stop religious assembly on parcel or obtain a major use permit.”
“The Western Center for Law and Policy is troubled by this draconian move to suppress home Bible studies,” said the law center in a statement. “If the current trends in our nation continue, churches may be forced underground. If that happens, believers will once again be forced to meet in homes. If homes are already closed by the government to assembly and worship, where then will Christians meet?”
On a personal note, Broyles added, “I’ve been leading Bible studies in my home for 13 years in San Diego County, and I personally believe that home fellowship Bible studies are the past and future of the church. … If you look at China, the church grew from home Bible studies. I’m deeply concerned that if in the U.S. we are not able to meet in our homes and freely practice our religion, then we may be worse off than China.”
Broyles also explained to WND that oppressive governments, such as communist China or Nazi Germany, worked to repress home fellowships, labeling them the “underground church” or “subversive groups,” legally compelling Christians to meet only in sanctioned, government-controlled “official” churches.
“Therein lies my concern,” Broyles said. “If people can’t practice their religious beliefs in the privacy of their own homes with a few of their friends, that’s an egregious First Amendment violation.”
WND contacted a spokeswoman for San Diego County, who acknowledged the description of the incident seemed “bizarre,” but who was unable to locate the details of the account. She simply could not provide comment yet, she said, until she could become familiar with the case.
Broyles said the WCLP is nearly ready to file a demand letter with the county to release the pastor and his wife from the requirement to obtain the expensive permit. If the county refuses, Broyles said, the WCLP will consider a lawsuit in federal court.
Broyles also told WND the pastor and his wife are continuing to hold the Bible study in their home.
Dear Stav,
It is true, the antipapacy in Rome did release some statements that they claimed were ‘the Third Secret of Fatima’ in 2000.
I do not believe that was it
Lynda
Dear Fr Joseph,
Some very good points on the image that God commanded be made of the Ark of the Covenant in Israel.
Of the Ark, it was commanded that it could never be loaded onto a wagon. It had to be personally carried - by priests, the Sons of Zadok. This is a glimpse of the true supernatural reality of the Ark.
And when Luke describes the Archangelic greeting to Our Lady and the Coming of the Holy Spirit to her, he uses the exact words that describe the descent of the Holy Spirit as Shekinah glory upon the Ark in the dedication of the Temple
Can God Suffer?
Written by the Very Rev. John Breck
With the so-called “natural disasters” we have faced this past year, from the tsunami in Southeast Asia to recent tornados in the American Midwest – in addition to Katrina, Rita and the devastating earthquake in Pakistan – it is only reasonable to ask whether we are alone in our suffering and anguish, or if God Himself participates in it.
During these past months countless articles have appeared in the religious press and on the Internet, making the point that God does not inflict natural disasters as punishment. In Orthodox circles, following the Holy Fathers, we make a distinction between God’s “permissive” will and His “intentional” will. As Lord of all, God permits or allows such disasters to happen.
Yet He remains a God of Love, who would never, for any reason, inflict wanton destruction on entire populations. He may allow pain and suffering to visit particular individuals, including you and me. But He does so always for a purpose, often beyond our comprehension. There is no doubt that at times He does so for our good, as a burdensome yet effective pedagogical tool to correct us and lead us to repentance.
Where apparently meaningless suffering afflicts the truly innocent, we can only surrender, in faith and hope, before the impenetrable divine mystery that allows no rational analysis, no figuring out of the whys or wherefores. God, then, is involved in suffering, as He is in every other aspect of created existence.
The image God offers us of Himself in the Gospel takes this conviction a crucial step further. It is the image of a God who not only governs the world and our individual lives, bringing blessings and permitting pain and suffering. This same God makes it clear that He actually shares that suffering with us.
Scripture declares repeatedly that Christ suffered in order to destroy the power of death and enter into glory, and that He did so on our behalf, so that we might share that glory with Him (2 Cor 1:5-7; Phil 3:10; Heb 2:9-10; 1 Pet 1:11, 4:13, 5:1). He assumed the suffering of the Cross, died and descended into Sheol, the realm of death, and there He destroyed death’s power by the greater power of His Resurrection.
Through our baptism we are literally “incorporated” into Him, into His glorified life, but we are also incorporated into His redeeming suffering. “By death He has trampled down death.” This is the most fundamental conviction of our Orthodox faith.
Furthermore, we acknowledge that this suffering is truly victorious, it truly leads to glory, because Christ Himself is God, the eternal Son of the Father and One of the Holy Trinity. The truth is affirmed, then, that Christ our God suffered in order to liberate us from the power of death and to lead us with Himself to the glory of resurrected life.
Yet the question remains: In what sense can we affirm “God suffers,” not only in the historical moment of the Crucifixion, but in the pain and anguish that so often mark our everyday existence? And if indeed God suffers, is that suffering borne only by the Son, or can we affirm that God the Father knows and shares our suffering as well?
Struggling with this question, some third-century theologians developed a heretical doctrine referred to as “patripassionism” (“suffering of the Father”). This is a heresy that refused to accept a Trinitarian conception of God – three divine Persons united in a single divine Essence or Nature – but tended to identify the Father and the Son, so that it could be affirmed that both the Father and the Son suffered on the Cross (“He who is called Father and Son [they, the patripassionists hold] is one and the same, not one from the other, but He from Himself, called by name Father and Son according to the figure of the times…” – Hippolytus, “Refutation of all Heresies,” 9:10).
In reaction to this threat posed to Orthodox Trinitarian theology, the Church condemned “patripassionism” and affirmed that only the Son suffered and died on the Cross.
This is a conviction we must uphold today every bit as much as Orthodox theologians did in the third century. Yet it needs to be stated as well that in a particular sense, God the Father indeed “suffered” at the Crucifixion. A child will ask: “Why did God send His Son to die and not come Himself?” The question reflects a double misunderstanding. On the one hand, He who died on the Cross was indeed God: the eternal Son of the Father. Yet when the apostle Paul speaks of “God” and “Christ,” he is referring respectively to the Father and the Son. Thus he can declare, “God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself” (2 Cor 5:19).
To answer the child’s question, it is enough to point out that no father could sacrifice his son without undergoing the same or even greater suffering than the son himself is called to bear. In other words, God the Father, in His infinite compassion and boundless love, endured a degree of personal suffering at the Crucifixion that was no less than the suffering borne by His Son, Jesus.
That subjective suffering, borne by each Person of the Holy Trinity, is not limited to the historical moment of the Cross. Like divine Love, divine suffering is a reality that characterizes God’s personal existence as He relates to the world He has made. Consequently, there is no human or cosmic suffering that is not part of God’s own personal experience. This is not “patripassionism.” It is the simple Gospel truth that the triune God indeed shares in – He knows and drinks to the bitter dregs – the cup of our suffering, whatever its cause, however devastating to us it might be.
Can God suffer? Does God truly suffer in the suffering of mankind and of each individual bearer of His divine image? Preserving a thoroughly Trinitarian perspective on God’s existence, we can answer that question with a resounding “Yes!” “We see Jesus,” the author of Hebrews declares (2:9), “who for a little while was made lower than the angels, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God [the Father] He might taste death for every one.”
That tasting of death was not limited to the Cross. It involves His ongoing suffering in the life of every sparrow that falls to the ground, every victim of a natural disaster, and every tormented soul who contemplates suicide. Christ’s suffering – and with it, the suffering of God the Father – embraces the whole world and every particular life within it, including yours and mine. There is no true love without suffering. And God is and always will be the God of Love.
Hi Fr. Joseph,
WOW, what an avalanche of posts! It will take some time for me to go through it all, as I have some work to so also…
While I understand why you may have posted so much info in one go, I think it would be practical to keep this kind of thing shorter, as the matter of dealing with it, at least from my side has purely practical difficulties, due to a lack of time. I am happy to continue in the spirit of Christ, but perhaps in a slower pace.
For your Posts after my post to you, posts 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 I agree with, I think there is no conflicting information between our views. Other than serving as an introduction to the rest of your posts, I don’t see if there are any points you’d like me to get from them.
For post 8 (I hope I got my numbering right), which states:
That Eastern Orthodox response… …as witnessed here on RZN is:
“We Don’t Need Your STINKIN….
Yes, I actually do NOT agree with the spirit of this kind of response. May I remind you that while I grew in a mixed denominational environment I saw far too much unilateral damage made by such violent and irresponsible approaches between members of my family and close friends. In my view, such approaches server only Satan, who sees it and laughs in satisfaction, because no progress is made and as a matter of fact, things can become worse as rapport is lost, from that point onwards.
My personal view about how to approach people of different faiths, is that it must always be in the thought that they are images of God, and thus deserve our respect as human beings. I will not be one of these people. Rest assured that most of the people who will respond like this, lack also the ability to argue constructively. Regardless to day, it also displays a complete lack of spirituality and loving attitude. Not that I do this perfectly, but I think that kind of response is quite extreme. And don’t worry, there is no way I am going to explode like that against you…
That said, as I have stated before, this is not to stop me from voicing my concerns in an as much as possible logical manner, if I notice something that is a doctrinal error in my view.
You say:
For these foregoing reasons, please do read the article…
I will, thank you for the links. I will also read the ‘Heaven’s Key To Peace’ piece also.
You say:
or a very specific reason - to discuss and ascertain what is truly a private, personal and entirely SUBJECTIVE event vis-a-via a public, universal and OBJECTIVE event.
NOTE: My comment below includes an answer for the first part of your following post to that.
My mention of the word “subjective” was purely from a practical point of view. It was not to say that some events are not truly objective even though they are expressed by some as not being so. In the end, whatever a personal view may express, the actual view it self, however violently expressed, does not change the actual facts. Thus, my advice in the face of such occurrences, would be to remain calm and simply refocus on what (if anything) presented is actually fact, and take things further from there.
Many people respond to supernatural events/apparitions etc. with pure refusal to accept it, even if it happens blatantly right in their faces. The reasons for this are purely personal in nature. That means not necessarily correct, but it happens for personal reasons. That was my point. I also made sure to mention that I am not one of these people. I actually lean towards the position that the Fatima apparitions actually happened in the way described.
Further in that post, you say:
Now I ask you, was that an entirely ‘SUBJECTIVE’ event witnessed… …that the 9-11-2001 “Arab” terrorist attacks occured?
I think that generally speaking, when one is faced with shocking or world-view demolishing information, one must be vigilant in their acceptance of truth, logic and powers of observation and trust God to deliver them after all the shock and awe has died down, to a place of new understanding.
The destruction of the towers, in this example is a fact and can be taken as an objective fact. However, the explanations given by the media you describe so characteristically and correctly, is obviously subjective. This is because it is obvious that they are biased and have ulterior Zionist motives, which I am not going to go into now.
Further in the same post, you say:
…on-line documentary, you are told of and show actual PHOTOGRAPHIC IMAGES of 70,000 people…
I think I gave you an answer of my personal view of this event above. As I said earlier, I have no problem to accept this event as a genuine one, and I probably do so now, in principle. I have not finalized my position yet but right now and based on my arguments in my previous post, I see no reason why these are not real events. All I was saying, is that internally, I have logically and sensibly correlated this information with my Orthodox viewpoint, which I might add, I have established after careful examination.
Thus, my main point about the whole apparition event, was that while it is almost certainly a real event, it does not show any signs of a complete and unconditional endorsement of everything that the RCC stands for.
In your next post you say:
What would YOU and the rest of ALL the members… …that…
“THE 9-11-2001 TERRORIST ATTACKS IN THE USA DID NOT…
Well, again you got my answer earlier. One must stay vigilant and true in their observations and logical deductions. Also, since we are talking about Christian to Christian here, one must pray, trust God’s insights, stay true to scriptural information, and at least the basic doctrines, such as the ten commandments, love of God and the fellow people and the love of truth etc. etc.
If one sticks to these principles, then one can make their own judgment in time and finally make an as possible correct evaluation. Moreover, as an Orthodox, I would add to these principles, some more constraints and practices. But, your example is hypothetical, so I would not like to comment any further with specifics as I actually think that public announcements in the Orthodox Church are a bit of a rarity anyway. (see further for more info on this)
Further, you say:
Again, what would YOU and KathJuliane… …STRONGLY encouraged to dismiss the Mass Media reports of the 9-11-2001 Terrorist Attacks?
My answer:
Well, I cannot possibly speak for others, but, I gave you my answer above. I believe in a logical, truth seeking, humble and orthodox approach to solving such difficult questions. It would also practically depend on many things, such as the actually specific people involved.
But let me give you some insight, on what actually might have happened in an Orthodox setting given your example:
In the Orthodox Church as you may know, we do not have such a decisive and organized hierarchy, in fact, to the western eye, most things may seem quite messy and disorganized in comparison. While there is partly a doctrinal root of this, this fact has also practical ramifications. Thus, as a first point, I would like to say, that I think that most probably no public announcement whatsoever would have been made, no matter how big the scandal or issue involved.
Secondly, the most probable thing to happen (or at least sought after by a practicing Orthodox) would be for one to take personal advise from a spiritual father/confessor about things like that. The Orthodox point of view on this particular practice, is that we will let the Holy Spirit inspire us for a correct answer. My personal experience on this, is that it indeed happens, although for us sinners, it happens in a very subtle way. Usually you realize this quite some time later.
Thus, if after (extensive) discussion a decision by the spiritual father to take the next action has been made, I would most probably completely submit my self to that decision, until further notice. It is my personal experience, that such advises, taken and followed within the context of the Mystery of Confession, will be blessed, regardless of their apparent nature, which to a questioning mind may even seem unrealistic, illogical etc. etc. But in the context of the Mystery of Holy Confession, the point is not action by one self, but rather letting our selves to be guided by the Holy Spirit. Thus, again, for a believer, this is a perfectly logical approach.
So, my main point above is that in the Orthodox Church, it is probably unlikely that such statements would be made publicly. This partly due to the non-centralized and non-existence of a single head of the Church. And partly to the fact that for the interested parties (the practicing faithful) the matter would have probably been rectified by personal advise through the Mystery of Holy Confession via their respective spiritual fathers.
I my view, it is simply your personal angle and point of view that can imagine such an occurrence taking place in the Orthodox Church. In my view, angle and experience, this seems very unlikely.
Finally, you say:
I am entirely capable of WINDING UP… …but due to the DANGER of actually causing DAMAGE… …I’ll leave this line of posting alone for a while.
Somebody might actually ‘SNAP’!
Fr. Joseph, my personal main approach in this message board, is to present logical analysis and conclusions, supported by Scripture and where applicable the holy traditions of the Church. I also aim to provide insights for anyone interested about the Orthodox point of view. Thus naturally, I am going to mention the differences between the Churches, to accomplish my aims.
I am very very far away from reaching a snapping point or have any of what is said here, affect my soul in a Damaging way. I do believe that a Christ and truth loving ethos and attitude, will never fail us, and will always be constructive for all parties involved.
In Christ,
Stav
Dear Father Joseph,
Then you must tell your friends who have been exposed to DU:
“Look, Father, the Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Holy Rosary. She has given this efficacy to such an extent that there is no problem, no matter how difficult it is, whether temporal, or above all spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families, of the families of the world, or of the religious communities, or even of the life of peoples and nations, that cannot be solved by the Rosary.”
Dear Father Joseph,
The Christian house which was living the instructions that Our Lady gave at Fatima ‘just happened’ to be at ground zero in Hiroshima. They were preserved alive and lived in good health into old age. I remember seeing some of those priests on tv in the 1960s. The only thing they had to complain about was that the US gov’t would leave them alone and was trying to study them like lab rats.
Why? Because
“There is no problem, I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we can not resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary. With the Holy Rosary, we will save ourselves. We will sanctify ourselves. We will console Our Lord and obtain the salvation of many souls.”
Sr Lucia of Fatima (Sr Maria das Dores of Carmel) 1957
Dear Fr Joseph,
Combat focuses the mind and clears it of intellectual static. A person who is dying of DU is not interested in arguments about Cesaro-papaism or why collegiality is the model and pattern of the Church or Lord founded or whether this pattern of the Church militant has a general with the generals and a chain of command. Let him sort that out later.
Let him save his life now by means of the Holy Rosary.
And, it does not matter what is anyone’s opinion.
The bishops of the Petrine Succession have spoken with one voice - the Holy Father and the bishops that Our Lord intends to give his Church a great vicotry to his glory.
Yes, in spite of the Christians and the whole sinful world speeding on the on-ramp to doom.
He is going to give the Church this victory because he intends that it will be his mother’s Triumph.
“By means of the Holy Rosary and the Brown Scapular, I will save the world.”
Just tell them Father. Let them see for themselves.
Dear Lynda,
YES, there is no problem that the Mother of God can’t address and intercede for us all on account of her Divine Appointment of being our universal spiritual Mother as the Human Race’s NEW EVE as well as the Mother of God Incarnate’s CHURCH here on earth.
That’s why I can and do get “hot under the collar” so to speak.
God Himself PUBLICLY ANNOUNCES via His Mother that He, out of His Divine Love for ALL of Mankind, will grant us all WORLD PEACE if but only His Church publicly and solemnly HONORS His Mother with a Collegial Consecrartion of RUSSIA to her - and from every corner of the Church herself comes forth individivuals, their decisions and all sorts of announcements which only cause the possibility of obtaining WORLD PEACE from God Himself thrown into their trash heap.
I served in the Military. I’d LOVE nothing better than to see WORLD PEACE!
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Stav,
Thank you for permitting and allowing me to BLOW OFF some internal pent up spiritual, intellectual and emotional “steam”.
Ya know, if there were but a wee bit more COURAGE on the part of ALL the members of the Church Militant here on earth, our entire human race would NOT be in the royally fouled up MESS that it now finds itself.!
To TURN DOWN an Offer from God Himself, be that either Eternal Life with Him in Heaven OR World Peace down here on earth while living away from our True and Native Homeland so as to ENSURE every manner of chaos, suffering and mayhem is IMPOSED upon the Human Race (of which I am but ONE individual soul) is something that ANGERS me deep down inside.
If people in the ‘High and Mighty Places’ both within Worldly Governments as well as His Church here on earth LIKE these World Wars and all of these other assorted manifestations of EVIL imposed on Human Beings the world over - that I say let THEM go out into the battlefields. Imagine seeing Bishops donning gas masks to avail inhaling Vx nerve agents while dodging bullets. Or perhaps form Battalions from the many and varied sorts of LEGISLATIVE bodies throughout the World, thrown a M-16 or AK-47 into THEIR hands after dumping them off on some miserable point on earth so as to FIGHT their OWN much desired wars and battles!
“Am I my brother’s keeper?”
Apparently, lots and lots of those inside and outside of the Church and national governments DON’T THINK SO!
- Fr. Joseph
Father Joseph,
Holy Orthodoxy, ever guided by the Holy Spirit, has always treasured Mary and her intercessory prayers, along with those of the saints and martyrs, for us as a gift from an all gracious and loving God.
Standing firmly on the truth of God, the Orthodox Church alone remains the “pillar of truth”, having never compromised the “deposit of faith” entrusted to her by the Apostles.
Because of the “infallibility” of the Holy Spirit resident in the entire Orthodox Church among all the faithful, although some fallen and sinful people have failed, He, the Spirit of Truth, even spoken by just one person at times, has enabled the Holy Orthodox Church to avoid the excessive devotion born of demonic deceit and hold fast to what is true and God-Pleasing.
In considering an apparition, guided by the working of the Holy Spirit, we examine the message for conformity to the revealed truth of the Gospel of Christ as found in Scripture and Holy Apostolic Tradition, and the infallible “patristic mind” of the Holy Orthodox Church.
When an apparition, or even a physical manifestation is truly Mary (or any other angel or saint of heaven) the hand of God is plain and undeniable. Furthermore, neither the Virgin Mary, nor any other holy saints and martyrs as obedient servants of God, acts without the Divine authority of our Lord Jesus Christ who sends them as He deems fit, and as He directs.
In their obedient love of God, certainly more perfect than we in the world can muster, they do nothing on their own authority, or presume their own authority apart from Jesus Christ. When the apparition is not of God, then this is also is clear to those of spiritual discernment and sound logic, in comparison with Scripture and patristic tradition.
The Third Oecumenical Synod of Ephesus, called in 431 over the Nestorian heresy under St. Cyril, Archbishop of Alexandria, Celestine, Pope of Rome, and Emperor Theodosius the Younger, with 200 fathers (bishops) in attendance, declared it “unlawful for any man to bring forward, or to write, or to compose a different (ἑτέραν-heteran-, ie. “heterodox”) Faith as a rival to that established by the Holy Fathers assembled with the Holy Spirit in Nicæa”, as dogmatically defined Nicene-Constantinople Creed as adopted by the First Synod of Nicaea in 325, or as added to and modified by the First Council of Constantinople in 381.
In addition, it condemned Pelagianism, Collyridianism, and Antidicomarianitism.
Eight canons were passed:
Canon 1-5 condemned Nestorius and Caelestius and their followers as heretics.
Canon 6 decreed deposition from clerical office or excommunication for those who did not accept the Synod’s decrees.
Canon 7 condemned any departure from the Creed established by the First Council of Nicaea, in particular an exposition by the priest Charisius.
Canon 8 condemned interference by the Bishop in affairs of the Church in Cyprus and decreed generally, so that no bishop was to “assume control of any province which has not heretofore, from the very beginning, been under his own hand or that of his predecessors … the Canons of the Fathers be transgressed”.
Most of the early heresies were Trinitarian and Christological in nature, but Collyridianism stood alone as a heresy that sought to make a goddess of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Little is known about the movement’s theology. Not even the names of the group’s leaders are mentioned by writers of the time. This sect’s excessive Marian devotion developed into the idolatry of Mary worship. This ancient aberration grew out of the Church’s rightful veneration of Mary as ever-virgin, Theotokos, and powerful heavenly intercessor, but crossed the line of orthodoxy when certain Christians began to worship Mary as divine.
Details about the Collyridians are scanty, but one of the few specifics we know of them is that at their liturgical service bread was offered as a sacrifice directly to Mary. The most diligent opponent of the Collyridians was Epiphanius (315- 403), the bishop of Salamis. He was widely renowned for his learning and holy asceticism and was a close friend of Blessed Jerome.
Epiphanius wrote against the Collyridians in his most important apologetic work, Panarion (Medicine Box [374-377]), a tour-de-force refutation of over eighty heresies known to him.
He refuted the two extreme and diametrically opposed Marian heresies of his day, Collyridianism (which overly exalted Mary) and Antidicomarianitism, an Arabian movement that debased Mary’s status and virtues, to the point of claiming “that holy Mary had intercourse with a man, that is to say, Joseph, after the birth of Christ” (Panarion 78:1).
The Collyridians were primarily women who developed a syncretistic combination of Christian elements and pagan Arab goddess cult customs. After describing the “awful and blasphemous ceremony,” in which they adorn a chair or a square throne and spread a linen cloth over it for their ritual, Epiphanius writes, “Certain women there in Arabia have introduced this absurd teaching from Thracia: how they offer up a sacrifice of bread rolls in the name of the ever-Virgin Mary, and all partake of this bread” ( 78:13).
He emphasizes the difference between Mary and God in no uncertain terms: “It is not right to honor the saints beyond their due” (ibid. 78:23); “Now the body of Mary was indeed holy, but it was not God; the Virgin was indeed a virgin and revered, but she was not given to us for worship, but she herself worshiped Him who was born in the flesh from her…. Honor Mary, but let the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit be worshiped, but let no one worship Mary, . . . even though Mary is most beautiful and holy and venerable, yet she is not to be worshiped” (ibid. 79:1, 4).
With Epiphanius we can say that anyone who worships Mary or any other creature instead of God the Creator is committing idolatry and must be rebuked. We should look to Scripture, at the case of the angel who rebuked John for his temptation to idolatry of a heavenly creature: “At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “See that you do not do that! I am a fellow servant, and of your brethren who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy!’” (Rev.19:10). No doubt, our Lady herself would say this to any who would seek to worship her.
Collyridianism may be seen today in various forms. Those “hyper-Marian” groups and writers who overly exalt Mary and focus on Her to the exclusion (or near exclusion) of Jesus Christ Himself may be guilty of something approaching idolatry, when compared to Scripture and Apostolic Holy Tradition.
Modern feminism is the source of a recycled Collyridianism that worships a “mother goddess” and seeks to “re-image” God in female terms.
According to the Word of God, the devil will manifest himself in the appearance which best suits his unholy purpose. He is the deceiver, the imposter. St. Paul warns us, “even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light”. (2 Corinthians 11:14).
In 2 Corinthians 11:1-3, Paul compares the reality of the New Covenant to the Garden of Eden, where Christ is Adam and the Church is Eve, and where Satan is up to his same craftiness “so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity and purity that is in Christ”.
The first element of a “chaste virgin” is the purity of Orthodox doctrine. Not human persuasiveness but only Apostolic content is important. Paul is a part of the apostolic college (v.5) which continues in line with the original Twelve Apostles. “For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom WE (the college of apostles) have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received [from us], or a different gospel which you have not accepted [from us]—you put up with it easily!”
Although Satan (v. 14) imitates the Kingdom of God, telltale signs reveal his sham, such as nonapostolic doctrine (vv. 4—6) and a lucrative ministry. The Corinthians thought they were wise (v. 19) enough to choose and evaluate Church leaders. They had become enamored with false apostles who championed themselves, using the methods and values of the world, full of outward show and crafty talk.
“Beloved, do not trust every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world…We (the apostles and their followers) are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth from the spirit of error”. (1 John 4:1-6)
Fr. Joseph, for all of these reasons, and many more, Orthodox Christians are taught not to trust in apparitions, the first of which is that Eve herself, was tempted through the eyes.
Through the ages, Orthodoxy has taken very much to heart the anathematized heresy of Collyridianism of Ephesus, and the Eastern Churches have always been very careful to keep the veneration of the Theotokos within a proper proportion, balance and demeanor within the Divine Liturgies and within proper theological bounds of the Seven Ecumenical Councils.
Secondly, is there a particular reason why you feel compelled to write post after post after post on this issue which is a matter ultimately of YOUR personal choice even within the Roman Catholic Church as is very clearly found within the RCC Cathechism itself?
Thirdly, is there a reason for this persistence in insulting and abusing the Orthodox Faithful by calling us heretics, when even your own Magisterium has just this century admitted that the Orthodox Church does NOT teach any heresy at all, never has, and has kept “the deposit of faith” pure and undefiled.
THIS IS AN OPEN FORUM - From Br Nathanael
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dear Real Zionist News Family,
I want everyone to realize that EVERYBODY regardless of religious persuasion is FREE to comment here their particular views.
Thus, I do NOT delete comments that may differ from my own Orthodox Christian beliefs, as long as there is NO SLANDER against Christ and the Holy Orthodox Christian Church Fathers & saints, AND, our Most Holy Orthodox Christian Church.
If some feel that our Orthodox Christian hierarchs are not doing their job properly, then they have the right to be critical, as long as there is no slander involved. (I myself HONOUR HIGHLY our Russian Orthodox Christian hierarchs and believe that they are doing a good job of maintaing our most Holy Apostolic Faith.)
Again, this VERY POPULAR Comments Section is an OPEN FORUM.
+Brother Nathanael Kapner
Russian Orthodox Christian
Hi Brother Nathanael,
Something to consider regarding the Ark of the Covenant…
The reconstituted Sanhedrin will function as a Senate, House of Representatives and Supreme Court, all rolled into one. And by virtue of the fact that a Jewish Antichrist will rule the world, the Sanhedrin will preside, not only over Israel, but over all mankind.
Within its judicial purview will be the interpretation of the Noahide Laws for the lower courts (‘small Sanhedrins’) to administer to the Gentiles.
Vendyl Jones, who claims to have discovered the Ark of the Covenant under the Temple Mount, says he has received the word from an unidentified “Kabbalist” to reveal the lost Ark by August 14, 2005. Perhaps the unveiling of the alleged Ark, which once held the Ten Commandments, will be conveniently staged just in time to provide Biblical justification for universal enforcement of the Noahide Laws.
Ron Wyatt - Now deceased Seventh Day Adventist who claimed to have discovered the Noah’s Ark, Sodom and Gomorrah, The Red Sea Crossing, Mt. Sinai, the Ark of the Covenant and How the Pyramids were built.
Various Creation Science research organizations have stated that Wyatt’s research was at best based only on circumstantial evidence and at worst outright fraudulent. Ron Wyatt and his organization presented false information about his scientific background and spent tens of thousands of investors’ dollars on bogus schemes.
Sincerely in Christ Jesus,
Joanne
Dear Joanne -
Did you get my latest email to you?
I tried to call you but I keep getting a message that you are “not available” - yet there is no way to leave a message on the phone…
+BN
Dear joeglas,
Tyrannies do not improve, they perish. Perhaps the last stage of that process ended when Montenegro regained its place as a sovereign nation of the European community. The Serb Orthodox Church is more akin to a cult whose central fiure is St. Sava and not the Saviour. Its primary role in history has been to further illegitimate Serb territorial gains as summed up in the motto: whereever there are Serb graves this is Serb land.
Response:
As an American and a convert to the Serbian Orthodox Church, speaking only on my own, of course, very safe and very far from the overwhelming heartbreak of Balkan history over the past thousand years, and to present day, let me address this first about St. Sava who is my patron saint of my adopted second homeland. He is no “cult figure” and for this we must go far back in history to the Byzantine Christian Era before the Ottoman yoke. I offer this for your consideration.
St. Sava, in terms of national identity, is to the Serbs is what St. Patrick is to the Irish, Emperor Constantine is to the Greco-Roman world, Prince Vladimir is to Russia and the Ukraine, or say in the more modern sense, what George Washington, a deeply devout man, is to “Christian America”. They are founders of Christian civilizations, and very much a part of the ethnic identity and the fabric of faith of each peoples. They are fathers of their respective nations.
Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is first and foremost in Orthodoxy and always will be. The Cross is everything to the Eastern Orthodox.
St. Sava is the father of Christian Serb civilization which was part of the “Byzantine Commonwealth” centered in Constantinople as well as linked by Faith to Kievan Russia, and therefore he is a holy saint of the entire Eastern Orthodox people worldwide. To Serbs, St. Sava embodied all the virtues of the Church’s saints.
St. Sava’s father, King Stephen Nemanja, later the devout and ascetical monastic St. Simeon, was inspired by the Byzantine Emperor Constantine’s example who founded the imperial city on pure love of the Christian faith. King Stephen, who was the first royalty to be named after St. Stephen the Protomartyr, followed this example by building churches, monasteries and schools, throughout not just Serbia but throughout the Byzantine lands, establishing Orthodoxy as the basis for Serbian culture and society. No other country of the Byzantine Commonwealth could claim as many monasteries as the kingdom of Serbia.
Originally, the Kingdom of Serbia was founded upon the principle of Svetosavlye, taught by St. Sava himself, whereby the basis for royal leadership and all aspects of life in the kingdom of Serbia was the Orthodox Faith and holy life of the Church. St. Sava was a man of very deep prayer and ascetical struggle, as was his father. He was always humble before the Ecumenical Patriarch in Constantinople, wishing to maintain and foster the unity of the Orthodox Churches in the Byzantine Empire.
Sava was the son of Stephen I, founder of the Nemanjdes dynasty, and also known as Sabas. He became a monk on Mount Athos in Greece when he was seventeen. With his father, who abdicated in 1196, he founded Khilandrai Monastery on Mount Athos for Serbian monks and became Abbot.
He returned home in 1207 when his brothers, Stephen II and Vulkan, began to quarrel, and civil war broke out. Sava brought many of his monks with him, and from the headquarters he established at Studenitsa Monastery, he founded several monasteries and began the reformation and education of the country, where religion and education had fallen to a low estate.
He was named metropolitan of a new Serbian hierarchy by Byzantine Emperor Theodore II Laskaris at Nicaea; was consecrated, though for political reasons unwillingly, by Patriarch Manuel I in 1219; returned home bringing more monks from Mount Athos; and in 1222 crowned his brother Stephen II King of Serbia.
Through his efforts, St. Sava finished the uniting of his people that had been begun by his father, King Stephen, translated religious works into Serbian, and gave his people a native clergy and hierarchy. He made a pilgrimage to the Holy Land, was later sent on a second visit there on an ecclesiastical mission, and died on the way back at Tirnovo.
Historically, in 1146 the Byzantine Emperor Manuel I Comnenos gave, in a gesture of peace, to King Stephen I the Byzantine Greek lands of Kosovo and Metohija.
Dear KathJuliane,
Way back when when I made my religious profession into the Lay Order of CARMELITES, I had this trite personal saying of mine I would say to myself when I would obtain a Moment of Grace from God the Holy Spirit Who showed me some aspect or facet of the Truth and Reality of Our Lord and Savior’s Divine Revelation and Teaching. It went/goes like this
“The MORE OBVIOUS something is, the MORE LIKELY it will be overlooked.”
- Fr. Joseph
Dear KathJuliane,
So I make these postings of mine SHORT so as to circumvent their being prevented from being posted by RZN’s anti-spam feature.
Now YOUR knowledge regarding so many aspects of Church History is unsurpassed here on RZN. You are, in a way, a living and breathing LIBRARY when it comes to matters of Church History and the Patristics of the Eastern Orthodox Church.
Now THAT is a Gift from our Lord.
It was St. John of the Cross, Carmelite Saint and Mystical Doctor of the Catholic Church who said in his work entitled ‘The Ascent of Mount Carmel’ that to turn to and lock onto any PARTICULAR aspect within God’s creation is to CEASE turning one’s mind and heart from gazing upon this “ALL” of His Creating.
- Fr. Joseph
Dear KathJuliane,
So in combining my own trite ‘The more obvious something is, the more likely it will be OVERLOOKED.’ coupled with the Mystical Doctor St. John of the Cross’ EXPERT spiritual wisdom and advise about NOT becoming fixated on some particular ASPECT so as to LOOSE SIGHT of the Big Picture, here is what I’d like for you to take aside privately during the course of your day to PRAYEFULLY consider.
The Byzantine Empire is no longer with us.
The Roman Empire is no longer with us.
The Church Fathers and the Bishops of the Church “way back when” took ACTIVE NOTICE of the manifold evils and troubles and obstacles that were confronting both THE CHURCH as well as the PEOPLE of their ‘World’ way back when 1700-1800 years ago…and…
THE ALL MET TOGETHER under the GUIDANCE OF GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT and COLLEGIALLY ACTED UPON implementing THE SOLUTION(S) the various DIVINE GRACES that were given to them AT those CHURCH COUNCILS.
- Fr. Joseph
Dear KathJuliane,
Now the PROBLEMS facing both the CHURCH MILITANT here on earth as well as about 6 billion human souls ALL created in the Image and Likeness of GOD for Whom His Only Eternally Begotten Son took on our human nature in the INCARNATION which was made solely possible by the FIAT the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, the Most Holy Theotokos and for whom He, as God Incarnate DIED on a Roman Cross via the Roman CRUCIFIXION - those Problems confronting and engulfing THE CHURCH as well as our entire Human Race for whom CHRIST JESUS’ DIED so as to save and redeem are VASTLY DIFFERENT IN SCOPE & NATURE than those problems and dangers facing THE CHURCH of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th centuries.
“The more OBVIOUS something is, the MORE LIKELY it will be overlooked.”
- Fr. Joseph
Dear KathJuliane,
So “way back when”, 1700-1800 years ago, THE BISHOPS of the Church from the far flung provinces of the Eastern Roman Empire and from the far flung provices of the Western Roman Empire - now get this -
THEY ALL ASSEMBLED TOGETHER - from the far East and the far West - in a COLLEGIAL FASHION - and promulgated PUBLIC and SOLEMN actions and announcements TO ADDRESS the many and varied PROBLEMS confronting the Church and by extention the manifold societal and psycho-spiritual problems confronting the members of the Human Race under the Church’s jurisdication.
And it was CHRIST JESUS HIMSELF Who commissioned His Apostles and their Successors to go out to ALL the nations of the World. Not just Serbia. Not just Greece. Not just Syria. Not just Rus. So as to bring the peoples of Rus, the peoples of Serbia, the peoples of Greece the peoples of Syria His Own Divine SALVATION and His Teaching to bring about Mankind’s REDEMPTION.
- Fr. Joseph
Dear KathJuliane,
In giving GREAT REVERENCE to how Christ Jesus and His Holy Spirit chose TO WORK WITH the Church Fathers and the Bishops of the Early Church - that is IF we want to show GREAT REVERENCE to our Lord, the Holy Spirit and the WAY in which Divinity chooses TO WORK with His Church and ALL OF MANKIND - we simply MUST recognize that in times of great peril, confusion and uncertainty within His Church and amongst Mankind in general…
…OUR LORD CALLS FOR THE BISHOPS OF HIS CHURCH TOGETHER IN ORDER TO “REGROUP” AND TO ACCEPT THAT WHICH GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT MAKES PERFECTLY AND CLEARLY OVERTLY MANIFEST AS DIVINE GUIDANCE TO THE CHURCH AND FOR ALL OF MANKIND’S SALVATION AND REDEMPTIONS’ SAKE!
“The MORE OBVIOUS something is, the MORE LIKELY it will be overlooked.”
We CANNOT become ‘fixated’ in our spiritual gaze upon what happened 1700-1800 year ago as if the problems of 17 centuries ago and their solutions back then ARE the solutions to the problems 17 centuries LATER.
To do THAT is to DENY the Lord Jesus Christ is LORD over all - to include future times - and to show a LACK OF FAITH in His Divine Goodness and His Divine PROVIDENCE for all manner of things we human beings might encounter IN THE FUTURE!
- Fr. Joseph
Dear KathJuliane,
Divine Providence DID NOT have Satan appearing to the Church Fathers and Bishops 1700 years ago in order for THEM to witness and overhear Satan’s challenge to THE LORD that he, Satan, challenged THE LORD that he would and could DESTROY the Church.
Divine Providence had the Bishop of Rome, Pope Leo XIII, back in 1884 A.D. receive that bit of Preternatural v. Supernatural Challenge knowledge.
So THE PROBLEMS what would ARISE from this Mystical Manifestation to the Bishop of Rome back in 1884 A.D. were NOT given the Divine Solution way back when in the 2nd and 3rd century Church Councils.
The Divine Solution to THE PROBLEMS what would ARISE from the Satanic challenge levied against THE LORD and His Church here on earth would have to OUT OF NECESSITY be given TO THE CHURCH something AFTER 1884 A.D..
To DENY that THE LORD would permit HIS CHURCH to be assailed by SATAN without the Divine Solution, the Divine Answer is to DENY the Divine Love that THE LORD has for His Bride here on earth - HIS CHURCH!
To assume the position that THE LORD would allow HIS CHURCH to become “blind-sided” by His and our common malicious spiritual enemy by NOT informing His Church and by NOT providing His Bride here on earth with AN ANSWER OR WAY to defend herself and to protect herself is to unwittingly asserting that THE LORD can’t be TRUSTED and is UNFAITHFUL to His Bride, His Church Militant here on earth!
- Fr. Joseph
Dear KathJuliane,
Maybe I’m wrong to view the Orthodox position that the Lord WOULD willingly abandon His Church to the viles and destructive desires of Satan for that is what I, as a Catholic Christian of the Western-Latin Church, CONCLUDE from your collective Orthodox REJECTION of the Most Holy Theotokos’ Apparitions, Messages and Instructions to THE BISHOPS of the Church as gleemed from the postings from you Orthodox here on RZN.
And so, yeah, I get a little “hot under the collar” on account of your individual and collective REJECTION of the Lord’s Chosen SOLUTION and RESPONSE to the Satanic challenge witnessed by the Bishop of Rome back in 1884 A.D.
And you Eastern Orthodox Church Christians simply REJECT what was given to the Bishop of Rome back in 1884 A.D. precisely because you all call the Bishop of Rome AN APOSTATE as well as A HERETIC!
And don’t you DARE tell me that isn’t the TRUTH of the matter regarding this long non-sensical hostility from you ‘Byzantiums’ vs. the ‘Romans’!!!
- Fr. Joseph
Dear joeglas,
Marxism in the Ghettos
Revolutionary political activities in the ghettos began to be organized in the early part of the 19th century. So “promising” was the ghetto force that Heinrich Heine, Jewish-German poet, leader of the Communist youth and collaborator of Karl Marx, foretold with breathtaking, if supremely sadistic, accuracy in the 1840’s the future destruction of Orthodox Russia by Judeo-Communism:
“Communism, though little discussed now and loitering in hidden garrets…is the dark hero destined for a great, if temporary, role in the modern tragedy….
It would be war, the ghastliest war of destruction…The second act is the European and the World Revolution, the great duel between the “destitute” (masses) and the aristocracy of wealth; and in that there will be no mention of either nationality or religion; there will be only one fatherland, the globe, and only one faith, that in happiness on earth…How could the drama end?
I do not know; but I think that eventually the great sea serpent [Britain] will have its head crushed and the skin of the Northern bear [Russia] will be pulled over its ears. There may be only one flock and one shepherd—on free shepherd with an iron staff, and a shorn-alike, bleating alike human herd!…
“…The Gods are veiling their faces in pity on the children of man, their long-time charges, and perhaps over their own fate. The future smells of Russian leather, blood, godlessness and many whippings. I should advise our [Jewish] grandchildren to be born with very thick skins on their backs,:
In this statement and subsequent developments we recognize the essential nature and objectives of Communism: It is to destroy the nations (which are gentile institutions, except for the recently born Zionist “international nation,” Israhell; to destroy religions and national and racial identities and to scorn national and race consciousness so that “there will be no mention” of such things. The poor, as in political labor unions, are turned against productive leadership, but rarely against the wealthy Jews as a means of making us destroy ourselves. The whole world must become a formless human flock, utterly disunited.
Communism, Heine said, is to serve a temporary role. We see by inspection since then that its role is to destroy the Christian order and people. After that is accomplished there will remain no organized resistance to the invisible power.
We see now that as Communism nearly accomplished this purpose in Russia, Eastern Europe, the Balkans, and its far advancement before and after WW2 in the matter of subverting America, intimidating Americans and Judaizing Christianity along the lines of Fabian Socialism and the subversion of Christianity to Zionist causes, that Jewish unity, fervor and political and financial power reached unimaginable new heights under Zionist propaganda and organizing.
Communism, then, exists to destroy the existing gentile world; Zionism is to build the “new order”, the one world government, police backed, a dictatorship, with Jewish financiers and political laders steering it, principally through proselytes. Communists open call for world dictatorship; Zionists speak of it in the more subtle terms of “world government, police backed.”
Hi all, Br. Nathanael and KathJuliane,
This post is mainly for my fellow Orthodox.
KathJuliane says:
“Holy Orthodoxy, ever guided by the Holy Spirit, has always treasured Mary and her intercessory prayers, along with those of the saints and martyrs, for us as a gift from an all gracious and loving God.
Standing firmly on the truth of God, the Orthodox Church alone remains the β��pillar of truthβ��, having never compromised the β��deposit of faithβ�� entrusted to her by the Apostles.”
I couldn’t possibly put it more aptly. I agree with that statement completely.
I only wanted to say here that my mention about (some specific) Hierarchs in the Orthodox Church having their share of errors, was mainly due to the recent scandals here in Greece, which revealed a few wrong-doings committee by a small minority of them, which from time to time appear to happen. It would be foolish in my opinion to present every single person who is Orthodox as absolutely perfect in every way.
However, I obviously still believe that the Orthodox Hierarchs, generally speaking but especially when they act or decide in their totality act primarily by the guidance of the Holy Spirit. This is simply because as again very aptly put by KathJuliane:
“Because of the β��infallibilityβ�� of the Holy Spirit resident in the entire Orthodox Church”
Thus I would like to say clearly here that while I have seen some isolated errors being committed, I absolutely trust that our Orthodox Hierarchy in it whole is protected because they reside in the body of the true and pure Orthodox Church.
One more note here, about errors that may be committed from time to time by our leaders in the Orthodox Church. We as the Orthodox body of the Church, are instructed to be vigilant and point out such errors, in the proper manner.
This, by it self suggests that such things will happen, however scarcely, and that we need to speak up and chastise the people in the hierarchy who may be in error. If errors were never committed, then there would also not be a need for the body of the Church to chastise some of the members when necessary.
I really did not want to give the wrong impression, especially to the non-Orthodox. I as an Orthodox, view the body of our Hierarchy and the great people comprising it, with great respect and honor.
My only point was that very occasionally, some individuals of the Hierarchy when acting on their own and not within the councils, may become misguided. It is our job then, with the help of the full body of the council of the Hierarchs to chastise them.
This is also a fool proof mechanism of ensuring that the Body of the Church remains healthy, even if a particular individual may err. Has anyone imagined when would happen if anyone decided to chastise the Pope? Well, in the Orthodox Church it is possible, if error is involved ANYONE can be chastised if there is sufficient proof of their errors.
That is not to say that this happens very often if at all, with regard to the Patriarchs, however this principle of all the Patriarchs being equals, also derives from the fact that even they are human and potentially fallible, and this makes their mutual “control” much easier to perform if the need ever came.
Finally to conclude, let me sum all this up:
1) Exactly in contrast with the RCC we Orthodox have no belief in the infallibility of any single human being. Thus, ALL of us, are and will sometimes err, in big or small ways.
2) The body of our Orthodox Hierarchy however, is infallible, due to their immersion in the Holy Spirit and because of our pure faith, As very aptly explained above by KathJuliane.
3) Since, individually one can err, even occasionally a Hierarch, (as very recently seen in Greece) I would say that immediate chastisement is necessary (and so it happened) in order to heal the body of the Church.
4) Thus, I fully trust and respect the fullness of our hierarchy and I also respect them individually.
It is important I my view, to present our Holy Orthodox Faith and its Body of Christ in its entirety in the best possible way, scripturally, doctrinally etc. to the non-Orthodox. And given our pure and perfect Faith, that is not hard, especially for the honest inquirer, to see.
However, it is my personal observation, that trying to pass a false impression that once orthodox, you are also automatically a saint or perfect, has detrimental effects. It is also very difficult to explain away the occasional individual errors that one may encounter.
Stav
Dear Fr. Joseph,
I can fully understand the way you feel and the reasons why you feel little “hot under the collar” as you put it.
I am not blaming you for that. it is annoying to say the least to personally accept something as a revelation and then see people who at least at the surface of it, seem to have the same beliefs, to ignore it or actively refute it. Look the way I see it is like this:
Most of your posts above, contain good and agreeable information and very Christian and at times even Orthodox sounding expressions in your paragraphs. However, you must realize that for the consciously Orthodox, the common ground is there and is acknowledged, but it is overshadowed by the differences. Also, the matter of difference between the RCC and the OC has not much to do (in the end) with which empire they originated or where connected to. That much is absolutely clear. The important consideration is the doctrinal differences. Trust me, it is not Romans vs Byzantines.
So, essentially you express views, that are 99% correct. Not 100% though. And that 1% difference is what matters to us Orthodox. Yes, we share a common heritage, your respect and honoring of the Mother of God, yes we know and believe that the Church is the body of Christ, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. and you keep talking and bringing all of these common things up.
I am afraid, however, that the 1% difference is so key and so important, that as I said before it simply overshadows all the common ground. As far as reconciling goes, one must in the end focus on the differences. These differences have been mentioned before, and no amount of mentioning our common heritage or common beliefs or using our common language addresses these differences.
Stav
…And so, this is a tricky situation, because while busy trying to prove one’s worthiness by putting forward the coinciding points of the faith, the differences are set aside. And to us, Orthodox, the differences have a DRAMATIC effect on the faith as a whole.
In a way, the Theological approach to this point is as meticulous and rigid and absolute as mathematics is. The comparison may seem a little over the top, but it is not. Theological definitions have taken a very very considerable amount of thought and meticulous analysis so that they are fool proof. Thus, changing a doctrine even in a small way (such as adding a simply “and” somewhere in a definition), has the same kind of effect as changing the value of Pi by a few decimal values for example in mathematics.
The main effect is that once such a basic doctrine ,or “value” as it can be very simply put, has been changed even slightly, then any theory based on these change values will be skewed. This is a very real and very practical reason why doctrines must not be changed.
Thus, one must address in an as honest as possible manner, why the RCC for example, arbitrarily decided to add the “filioque” to the Creed and when corrected by the Orthodox decided to keep it in officially. Or, why, again arbitrarily, they decided that one single person can be infallible, no matter what the circumstances.
These, and the rest of the doctrinal differences are points which are heretic. It is the Roman church who decided to heretic, not the other way around. The word heretic simply means “to choose” and the RCC decided to choose to change the creed and a number of other things, which had been decided by ecumenical councils.
What more can be said to make this even clearer, there is simply no way around this one, the RCC has views that changed from the original faith, and no amount of historical reviewing or mentioning our common ground will diminish this point. The only way is to address them directly.
Stav
…
as I have repeated and will again, even apparitions do not address these heretical points of view. Thus, unfortunately, yes, the Pope is an heretic as far as the Orthodox go. Period. Nothing more to say on this point. Nothing more to say that can take away the focus from this for an Orthodox who talks to a Catholic. No point in bringing up common ground, common beliefs, or whatever else. The question still stands, why has the RCC adopted heretical views and decided to stick with them when they were pointed out? Why? Unless the heretical points are dealt with, nothing can change that. NOTHING.
And that is that, by the definition of the word Herecy, the Roman Church became heretical when they changed the descisions of the whole body of the Church. Shall I repeat my self again? How can anyone refute this? How? Why on earth add something to the creed? Why? What can possibly support this action? How does a factually working mind accept this action as non heretical, when this exactly the typical action that makes one a heretic?
And this goes on, in exactly the same fashion with all the other differences that were introduced by the RCC. Why change the way the Most Holy Body of Christ is delivered to the people? Why? Why change it at all? Why change attire and attitude, to look Orthodox, when they are not, simply to deceive (Unites)? Why on EAarth do this?
Why choose to change? Why choose to deceive? How much more simply and clearly can one put it? Why change and become the only Church of the sister Churches to say and do certain key things differently? How can anyone not see this as the typical archetype of what a herecy is?
As I said, there is simply no way around these questions, except the acceptance of ones errors, and return to the Original, God inspired faith. Nothing.
Stav
…and so, the matter has nothing to do with Byzantium or Rome. Not where it matters. It may be a niggling consideration for Greeks, who lost this old glory, but the main matter to any thinking and Faithful Orthodox, at hand is the doctrinal issues.
The reason for the apparent rigidness is exactly what I explained above. Arbitrary changes to doctrine, CHANGES IRRECOVERABLY THE FAITH. And that is herecy. As I said, in mathematical or logical terms these are deviations, errors which in turn are error inducing. Pretty basic logical practice if one looks at it like that, but most importantly one set there by the Holy Spirit via the councils to keep the faith pure.
All of the above, does not mean that the named apparitions are not real, it just means, that they are beside the point in this context that I present in this post.
All of the above, does not take away from that fact that the Theotokos may appear anywhere God’s providence may want Her to.
All Of the above, does not take away the fact, that many Catholics may give their lives for Christ.
All of the above, does not take away that many Catholics may do great works, or help their fellow man in various ways.
All of the above, does not take away the fact that the RCC has common roots with the Orthodox.
Etc. etc.
But what it says, is that regardless of all of that, the RCC is doctrinally NOT healthy, NOT perfect. Again, there is no way around that.
Stav
…And so finally, if you can still think clearly and calmly after reading all of the above, you can possibly understand why the Orthodox Hierarchy will not publicly confirm the apparitions you have so many times mentioned. It will not collectively endorse the Catholic Church, at all costs, because the RCC is in error in some basic doctrinal issues, which have “contaminated” many parts of it. It will not throw oil into the fire which is its heresy, by accepting it collectively. Period.
And before you pick on my statement “at all costs” let me tell you. The message in Fatima was essentially for people to do more prayer. Well, we have had this message give to us, directly many times, before and after the apparition you mention. Also, the holy tradition teaches us to do so. Thus, I fail to see, if anything, what the Orthodox would gain by this apparition made public. Come over to Greece, or speak to a Russian or Other Orthodox.
There are always a wealth of various apparitions that can be used to draw from in the Orthodox world. There is an extremely rich availability of this and much much more, which I am not going to go into.
And to tell you the truth, RCC will ignore these Orthodox apparitions and messages too. In fact, they are either oblivious of them or intentionally do not mention them to their flock. Have you heard of Father Paisios? Father Porfyrios? The prophecies of Saint Cosmas? The countless stories connecting various icons of the Theotokos to apparitions messages etc. etc.? Why not?
The RCC will not collectively and openly endorse or even simply comment on all of these thousands of things either. Why not? Don’t they believe in the Theotokos being capable of appearing? Yes of course they do, but that reason for them not mentioning anything about the countless apparitions to the Orthodox, has nothing to do with that. They simply do not want to be seen endorsing something they are no longer part of.
I don’t blame them for that, but I do think that its a bit over the top, to ask someone to accept unconditionally their experiences while totally ignoring the other side’s.
Stav
St. Peter spoke up to answer the Lord’s Question regarding His Own Identity. St. Peter answered ‘Your are the Christ, the Son of the Living God.’
Chirst Jesus affirmed that St. Peter was INFALLIBLY CORRECT - and that is something the other Apostles, such as St. Andrew who went off to preach the Gospel to the people of Rus, contemporary Russia, took with them to the peoples of the nations of the entire world.
St. Peter had proclaimed an INFALLIBLE Doctrine and Dogma via the Inspiration of God the Holy Spirit. And the Early Church Christians in the Balkans, in Russia, in Greece, in North Africa, throughout Europe and even as far as the Malabar coast of India ALL equally shared the Faith and the Doctrine and Dogma of the Indentify of Christ Jesus on account of St. Peter’s INFALLIBLE public pronouncement.
- Fr. Joseph
Hence, to properly understand what the Supernatural Gift granted to the successor to the Seat of St. Peter which is called ‘Infallibility’, when there is a matter concerning the FAITH as well as the MORALS of the Universal Christian Church which needs to be settled once-and-for-all, the Apostolic Responsibility to publicly AFFIRM what the ‘Church’s Answer’ to any and all questions regarding the Teachings and/or the Revelation of Christ Jesus, that Apostolic Responsibility is assigned to the successor to the Seat of St. Peter.
To be sure, there was nothing TO STOP the other Apostles from contradicting or ignoring what was proclaimed from the mouth of St. Peter.
But they didn’t.
They ALL accepted the Lord’s Own Personal Divine Affirmation that St. Peter was INFALLIBLY CORRECT.
- Fr. Joseph
Now then, having said that, did or did not St. Peter PUBLICLY DENY the same Lord Jesus Christ Who affirmed that St. Peter’s answer to the Doctrinal-Dogmatic Question posed to ALL of the assembled Apostles was from God the Holy Spirit Himself?
Yes, St. Peter DENIED the Lord.
Therein lies the vast difference between the Bishop of Rome being INFALLIBLE in matters of the Christian Faith and Morals and the Bishop of Rome’s ERROR in denying the Instructions given to him via the Fatima Apparitions and Messages.
- Fr. Joseph
Sacred Christian Scripture has St. Paul the Apostle saying this:
There is ONE Lord, ONE Faith, ONE Baptism, and ONE God Who Is FATHER of all, over all, through all and within all. - Ephesians 4:5
Perhaps we, as Christians throughout the World, have FORGOTTEN how Christ Jesus’ “Thing” are SUPPOSED TO WORK.
After all, there are websites such as this one which CLEARLY EXPLAIN ‘How Stuff Works’
http://www.howstuffworks.com/
- Fr. Joseph
Now regarding this ‘One Faith’ Supernatural and Divine Business.
If God Incarnate HIMSELF came into our World to amongst us of the Human Race to ‘Divinely Reveal’ that THE SQUARE ROOT OF 144 IS 12
what sort of LUNACY would it be for the people of Russia to say that the square root of 144 is 11, the people of Greece to say the square root of 144 is 10, the people of Asia to assert that the square root of 144 is 9, the people of Africa to assert that the square root of 144 is 5 and on and on it goes with every last human being coming up with ANY NUMBER other than 12 in answer to what the square root of 144 really and truly actually IS despite God Himself saying that the Correct Answer is 12!
So, with regards to Christ’s Revealed Religion, we either ACCEPT the Correct and Divine Answer that it is 12 that is the square root of 144 or we wind up conjuring up and promoting ANY OTHER NUMBER other than 12 being the correct answer.
Allow me to share with you an itsy-bitsy little story about ‘HOW STUFF OUGHT TO WORK’ in Christ Jesus’ Own Church Militant here on earth.
- Fr. Joseph
The following is an absolutely true and factual story relayed to me by my brother not too long ago.
It was Sunday and he had not yet been to Mass. It was late in the day, around 8:00 pm and he know that the majority of the Catholic Churchs did not have such late Masses.
Neverhtheless, he opened up the phone directory and found a small KOREAN Catholic Church parish on the other side of town having a Sunday night Mass at 9:00 p.m.
Now I and my brother are of EUROPEAN and POLISH descent. We stand about 6 feet tall each, have a very CAUCASIAN complexion.
As my brother just made it to this Korean Catholic parish. As he entered the back of the Church, the VERY Korean looking and VERY Korean speaking Catholic Priest was already seated at the Altar and there were nothing but VERY Korean looking and speaking members of the Laity in attendance.
As my brother walked into the back of this VERY Korean Church, the VERY Korean Priest took notice of my brother and stirred in his seat to gaze intently upon this 6 foot tall white complexion Caucasian from European heritage coming INTO the midst of his VERY Korean Mass and VERY Korean congregration.
The other VERY Korean congregants likewise looked upon my brother’s entrance with attentive suspicion as well….
- Fr. Joseph
When my bother genuflected and quietly took is place amid the Korean congregation in the back of this very Korean Church, the Korean Priest and the congregation “relaxed” and proceeded on with Mass.
The entire Liturgy of the Mass was in KOREAN and my brother didn’t understand a blessed word of the Liturgy or of the Priest’s homily.
When time came for reception of the Holy Eucharist, my brother took his place towards the back of the line of the Korean Lay Faithful.
As he approached the Altar, he could hear the Priest and members of the Lay Faithful speaking to each other in Korean.
As my brother came to receive the Holy Eucharist, this Korean Priest carefully selected a Host, held it up before my brother’s eyes and this Korean Priest looked my brother straight in the eyes and in a LOUD voice so as to ensure all the other members of the Korean congregation could hear him, said aloud
‘CORPUS CHRISTI’
The universal Latin of the Western Church which means
‘The Body of Christ’
Now THAT is HOW STUFF SHOULD WORK in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
ONE FAITH and all of us SHARING IN that One Faith.
- Fr. Joseph
Hi Fr. Joseph,
I think here, pure logic can serve us,
You say:
‘You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God.’ Christ Jesus affirmed that St. Peter was INFALLIBLY CORRECT
True, He did. But it is clear that His affirmation was confined to that particular statement. A small child can make this deduction. This is because Christs affirmation was a direct response to St. Peter’s. What makes you think that His affirmation of that particular statement was universally applied to all of St. Peter’s statements, before and after that event?
Moreover, even if we accept that Christ’s affirmation was to be applied universal to all of St. Peters’ statements, which I do not and logic does not, what makes you think that this characterization is transferred to every Pope?
Stav
Dear Stav,
You ask “..tranferred to every Pope?”
Sacred Christian Scripture, Inspired to be recorded by God the Holy Spirit, has recorded St. Peter speaking these words in the Assembly of the Apostles
“Now in the Book of Psalms it says…LET SOMEONE ELSE TAKE HIS OFFICE.”
St. Peter winds up ‘BARKING PAPAL MONARCHIAL ORDERS’ (big grin) to the other Patriarchs and Metropolitans of the Lord’s Church in the Inspired by God the Holy Spirit Sacred Christian Scriptures as found in
1 Peter 5:1-4
Who is this Papist Peter trying to tell the other Patriarchs and Metropolitans what and what NOT to do, right?
- Fr. Joseph
Okay, okay - EVERYONE wants to be the visible Head of Christ’s Church here on earth. Pastor Hagee wants it. Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, Jimmy Swaggart do to.
The Queen of England IS the visible head of the Church of England.
Calvin. Luther. Zwingli. Knox. Smythe.
Gosh, everyone wants to be the ‘King Tuna’ so that NOBODY has to “take orders” from anyone else.
Com’on, let’s cut throw all the polite niceties so as to clearly examine the BRUTAL and HOSTILE TRUTH of what is going on in our World and in His Church for once in our lives.
Might help.
So while the CHURCH gets chewed up and spit out England, where in the heck is the Queen of England and ALL of the bishops of the Church of England? Hiding out is some nice English estate out in the English countryside?
How about all of the ‘Bishops’ and ‘Pastors’ of the 52,000 denominations here in the USA. Don’t they know there is a vicious ZIONIST INSPIRED war going on vs. Iraq and the Palestinian people?
“La-De-Da”.
- Fr. Joseph
So while the CHRISTIAN FAITH of the Lord’s Own Apostles gets summarily ground into the dust in and among the nations the world over, shall we not all retreat into the Religous-Science-Fiction of the make-me-feel good versions of Christ’s Teachings while our entire world goes to hell in a handbasket?
As Soreen Kierkegaard summarized after his extensive study of the doctrines and dogmas of the Protestant Reformation
“They have turned Christianity into too much of a CONSOLATION and have forgotten that it makes A DEMAND on them all.”
“Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord’ and NOT DO what I say?”
- Fr. Joseph
Get the BISHOP OF ROME to tell ALL of the other ‘leaders’ of whatever type throughout our World to GET OUT IN PUBLIC before ALL THE PEOPLES of this World and make a public and solemn Collegial Consecration of RUSSIA to the Immaculte Heart of God Incarnate’s MOTHER - and you just watch how SATAN, his unseen legions of malicious elemental spiritual demons and devils, along with the entire phalanx of human stooges, dupes and allies of any and all satanic-inspired activities throughout our entire World all comes UNDONE so fast - that it’ll make your heads spin!
- Fr. Joseph
OK, Lets put this whole story in a very simplistic way, so that even a child could understand it:
A group of people all gather collectively in the name of God, several times in fact, and decide certain doctrines. The meeting begins as such:
Hi everybody, we have set a certain collection of things given to us by our predecessors, to do with our faith in God to focus on, because we have determined that these are the things that are of the highest value and nothing in the world is of higher value. It seems there are many of us, who have questions on how to specifically organize all this heritage we have. We must do this organizing. Agreed?
Yes we agree unanimously.
OK then, let’s set a number of principles or doctrines which are going to assure us that our focus will remain unchanged and pure. Let’s do this in the name of God and via the help of the Holy Spirit. We trust that the Holy Spirit will help us define the Truth as purely as possible and put it down on paper, so we have a documented set of rules and principles to guide us in the future. Also this is going to help us NOT FORGET where and why all of this started. Also lets pray with all our hears during this effort, so that God may help us with this task.
Agreed?
Yes, we agree unanimously!
After many days, a lot of prayer and debating…:
OK we have arrived unanimously at doctrines: 1,2,3,4,5,6 etc.
All of this this is to ensure our focus, and purpose. Agreed?
Yes, we agree unanimously!
Now, let’s add one more thing, what if one of us now or in the future, decides to change or add to these doctrines?
Answer:
We all decide unanimously, that in that case they are the ones who changed and thus they are the heretics and by doing so they automatically cut themselves off the original group.
Agreed?
Yes we agree unanimously!
After a few years, a few of the original group, say:
It looks as if we are the most powerful force in the world today, let’s change doctrines 3, 4 and lets add new doctrines 7 and 8. That will sure make our faith have a more agreeable face value. We’re sure everybody else will follow us, because of this worldly power we now possess.
Then the rest say:
Why did you change 3 and 4, don’t you remember we gave specific reasons why we should not change any of this? Did we not all agree that such changes will be anathema? Don’t you remember that this was the will of the Holy Spirit, to put down things in exactly that way? Do you not see that your changes will change your ideas and views for years to come because you are now using a different basis?
And why did you add 7 and 8? Don;t you think that if they were that significant, they would have been added from the beginning? Remember, our council’s descisions were of the Holy Spirit.
The sub-set of the original group which changed the original doctrines then responds:
Well, yeah, but we thought this is better. It does not really change things that much… And if you want reasons, here are reasons a,b,c etc.
The Original group then says:
Yeah but the reasons a and b, where addressed and proven wrong in the original councils and explained in a logical manner and you even, agreed to these. Furthermore, reason c you state makes no sense even in the light of all the doctrines you still share with us. In addition, perhaps most importantly, we made the original doctrinal definitions in their entirety, absolute via the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. How can you change them now?
The sub-set then responds:
We are sorry, but we have come this far now, and we will not take back what we have changed. Besides, there are many of us now, we do not actually really need you to continue.
The Original then says:
Well in that case, based on the laws and cannons you also helped define, we have no choice but to define you as heretics, which means as the ones who changed things from the Original state to something different. We warn you, the changes you made, will contaminate the faith and your group in ways you cannot predict, to your detriment.
The sub-set then answers:
Point taken, but we will not change. In fact, we are now pronouncing that WE are the Original group! You are not worthy to keep this title anomore, because we reside in a more powerful country!
The Original group:
-Speechless…
OK, your arguments are irrefutable not because of their correctness, but because of their absurdness.
And thus the contamination spreads within the sub-group until today…
Years pass… Many things happen in between, and sometimes they cross paths.
Occasionally, the two groups meet, and the following discussion commences, invariably:
Original group:
Hi, how’s it going? I see you have changed a lot since we were still one body…
The sub-set:
Very well thank you, things are going well, it seems our changes have given us more flexibility and we have achieved many things. Especially the new doctrine ‘a’ we have added, which gives us centralized control, has served us very well and kept the power with us at all times. On the other hand, I see that you have not changed much at all…
Original group:
Yes, it is apparent that your compromises give you an advantage in the material world. We are still concerned about you, and the Original doctrines that you have compromised. Do you remember the doctrines that were set originally and our descisions not to change any of it? Why did you change them?
The sub-set:
No response to that,
But we have reasons d,e which prove that we were right after all. More over, we have accomplished f and g, which proves that we were right after all.
Original Group:
But what about your continually changing relation to the original values we set? Don’t you see how much different you are today than when we started?
The sub-set:
Well, to tell you the truth, we are not too concerned about this anymore, because as you can see, we have done pretty well in the world. If you want, we will even occasionally accept some of the original doctrines, f that makes you happy, but our focus is no longer the same… It does no longer really matter to us that much…
The Original group:
By the way, we have had reports, that you are posing as the Original group to some people , trying to pass as if you were us (Unites), you seem to wear the same clothes as us and use our ways, yet you only do this to appear more familiar to some people. Don’t you think that is a bit misleading? Please stop it.
The sub-group:
No response..
(they continue to do the same thing.)
The Original:
You see, we told you your focus is going to change! You are doing things that are completely contrary to our original values, sure you can see that now?
The sub-set:
Well I am not sure about that, but anyway, look at all the nice things we have gained in the world, we are happy with our current mix of things! Why change?
Stav
Hi Fr. Joseph,
I did not see a response to my basic argument, that Jesus Christ’s statement was very obviously specific to THAT particular statement of St. Peter.
What is your logic that shows that this affirmation by Christ was anything other than that?
My guess, is that you read the passage, but you read it under the heavy influence of you your predetermined premises. Namely the “story” of how the Pope and every Pope came to be infallible. Thus you fail to simply read the words, like a 4 year old would, in innocence.
Regardless, You say:
You ask “..tranferred to every Pope?”
Sacred Christian Scripture… …has recorded St. Peter speaking these words…
“Now in the Book of Psalms it says…LET SOMEONE ELSE TAKE HIS OFFICE.”
Tell me, then, as I do not think you have answered my question, how does this prove that this supposed general infallibility of St. Peter was transferred to the Pope? Does the Office also include this supposed infallibility as a transferable bonus?
You say:
St. Peter winds up ‘BARKING PAPAL MONARCHIAL ORDERS’ (big grin)….
Unfortunately, the rest of your post simply returns back to your own premise, which is to accept by face value, the RCC doctrines. Thus to me, the rest of the text in that post do not carry much value.
If you were to answer my arguments however, see above, we could have a serious discussion about this.
It is clear that again, this is ending up to be a circular discussion. You are claiming that you are right, because you are claiming that you are right and anything I say gets ignored.
If this seems to continue, then I have no purpose in responding to this again, as it will only guarantee a return to the errors of the false premises of the RCC again.
Stav
Dear Stav,
Thank you. Yes, let us NOT CHANGE what was handed down to us from the APOSTLES.
Now who gets TO CHOOSE who becomes a BISHOP in the Church or not.
Did the Emporer of the ROMAN Empire of Christ Jesus’ Time obtain DIVINE PERMISSION to ordain and install BISHOPS in the Church? Well, did he? Or was the appointment and ordiation of Bishops in the Church given to the APOSTLES?
WHO?
Does the Emporer of the Byzantine Empire DUMP a duly ordained BISHOP who has FULL APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION from the Apostlic lineage in order TO APPOINT his own Byzanitine Emporer BISHOP for his own POLITIAL PURPOSES in dealing the the powers to his south in IRAQ per Christ’s Designs for His Church?
Now YOU tell me - who CHANGES things!
You and all of the rest of the Orthodox Church here in the United States of America would HOWL BLOODY MURDER if President Obama decided that the Empire of Zionist America can DEPOSE of all of Orthodox BISHOPS here in the USA so as in order to install more “politically correct” ecclesiastics who would SUPPORT the expansion of Empire USA throughout the world.
So WHO gets to APPOINT Bishops in the Lord’s Church. Now tell me.
Do BYZATINE EMPIRE EMPORERS get to do that OR do OTHER BISHOPS of the Church get to do that?
Who is charging who with CHANGING all manner of things in and with THE CHURCH?
- Fr. Joseph
Many problems developed in the Corinthian Church during the time of St. Paul due to believers not submitting and obeying the ORDAINED LEGAL BISHOP then exiling him and some priests. - from
http://www.suscopts.org/pdf/copticchurch/patrology5.pdf
- Fr. Joseph
The Letter of POPE St. Clement to the Corinthian Church which had DEPOSED of their LEGALLY ORDAINED & APPOINTED BISHOP and some of his priests.
http://philthompson.net/pages/library/1clement.htm
About Pope St. Clement of Rome - 95 A.D. (a couple of years BEFORE the year 1054 A.D.)
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04012c.htm
and
http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/library_author/43/St._Clement_of_Rome.html
- Fr. Joseph
Pope St. Clement of Rome wrote HIS letter concerning the flagrant ABUSES lodged upon the LEGALLY APPOINTED BISHOP of the Church in Corinth in the year 95 A.D.
He was the FOURTH Bishop of Rome, St. Peter being the first.
When St. Clement BISHOP of Rome wrote his ‘Papal Monarchial’ letter to the Corinthian Church in order to CORRECT that Church in have DEPOSED of the legally ordained and appointe BISHOP of Corinth, let it be known that the APOSTLE ST. JOHN was still alive and living in Ephesus.
EPHESUS is much more CLOSER to Corinth that is Rome.
Ya gotta take a BOAT and go over the Meditterean Sea in order to get to Corinth.
St. John THE APOSTLE was living but a hop, skip and a jump from Corinth in Ephesus by comparison.
So WHO winds up exercising Apostolic Authority OVER and IN the Church with regards to the TROUBLES caused by the Corinthian Church.
Was it the nearby APOSTLE St. John - OR - was it the successor to ST. PETER???
WHO???
- Fr. Joseph
But out goes “logic” when one chooses to utterly OVERLOOK and DENY historical facts and obvious truthful deductions.
If the 1st century Church in Corinthian is CORRECTED by the Bishop of Rome while the Apostle St. John is STILL ALIVE in Ephesus for GETTING RID OF the legally ordained and appointed Bishop of Corinth - let 9 more centuries go by and, viola, THE GREAT CHANGE is permitted…
A Byzatine Empire Emporer gets to DUMP a legally ordained and appointed Bishop is HIS ‘neck of the woods’ so as to INSTALL his own personally desired individual as ‘Bishop’.
Oh yeah. Sure, sure, sure.
Let’s keep APOSTOLIC TRADITION by allowing Byzantine Emporers choosing who is Bishop and who is not.
So much for all of this “logic”.
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Stav,
Get with KathJuliane who is a living, breating library of information on Church history, heresies, Councils etc. and if the TWO OF YOU would do me a great big favor.
With all the logic and all of the information between the two of you (add in Fr. John if you want) would you PLEASE tell me at WHICH of the mutually accepted Ecumenical Councils of the Lord’s Church here on earth where the Church Fathers unanimously granted EMPORERS the Divine Right to depose of and then select who would be BISHOPS in the Apostolic Church.
Thank you.
- Fr. Joseph
See my short final post about this in the new article posted by Br. Nathanael. I will leave this whole subject for now, to let things cool down.
Stav
Or how about this doozy - of all the doozies on both sides of the Great Schism - this is one of the dooziest and illustrates to a T - ‘Ceasaro-papism’ or the Cesar’s pope (although I think in this case it should be patriarch)
Constans II (a Monothelite) opposes the stand taken by Pope Martin I (later Pope St Martin I) against the Monothelites.
So he red rover, red rover sends exarch Theodore Calliopas right over to Rome with an armed contingent to seize the pope and oversee the election of another.
To avoid bloodshed and riots in Rome, Pope Martin I forbade resistance of the populace and declared himself the Emperor’s prisoner. He was taken to Constantiople, branded a heretic by the Patriarch and his bishops, paraded through the streets for the wrath of the mod, condemned for treason and exiled to the Crimea where he died in prison. His letters tell how his bishops and clergy in Rome deserted him and his friends forgot him.
So much for Emperors dictating theology to bishops.
Just a couple of thoughts.
KathJuliane, what does liturgical mean to you?
About Mary being described as “mother of God.” To be the mother of someone is to be the source of that one’s very existence AS that one is described (in this particular case – God). Mary is 0% the mother of God. She is 100% the mother of the Son of God in His incarnate state – son of man. If this title is not thought through, it easily suggests really false theology and it elevates Mary to a status I do not see the Bible giving her.
When Jesus told Peter the church would stand against the very gates of hell, what was the institutional level of that church at that time (that time being the most accurate context of His words)?
Pretty much no institutionalism whatsoever.
Israel was steeped in institutionalism. Has there ever been a single example of a church institution coming into existence, declaring its creed, and then having the flexibility to accommodate any expansion in truth?
I’ll bet not once. If Israel is any example, they always killed the prophets.
The idea that any church institution will be on the side of Christ in the end seems unlikely to me and support of this idea thru Scripture, seems totally outside the context of the true church when Christ spoke His words, this being a time He and His disciples were devoid of institutionalism while the true church’s adversaries were highly institutional.
Tony
Dear Tony,
Our Holy Orthodox Fathers, particularly St Cyril of Alexandria of the 5th Century and at the Ecumenical Council of Ephesus, affirmed the title, “Theotokos,” that is, “God Birth Giver,” to our Precious and Holy, Virgin Mariam..
This title explains the whole mystery of our salvation: God Who Existed From All Eternity Was Given Birth In Assumed Human Flesh By The Virgin Who Would Bring Forth, “Emanuel,” that is, “God With Us.”
The Virgin Mariam DID NOT give birth to a mere man, BUT to the Eternal Son Of God Who Existed From All Eternity AND for us men and our salvation, **assumed impersonal humanity** from the flesh of the Most Pure Virgin Mariam, so that He might suffer in the flesh for our sins and deify our assumed flesh through His Incarnation and subsequent Resurrection and Ascension, which we Orthodox Christians will celebrate this coming Thursday.
This is why our Most Precious Virgin Mariam is entitled by our Holy Orthodox Christian Fathers, with the Worthy & Most Appropriate Title, “Theotokos,” that is “God Birth Giver.” (Please allow your brain to expand a bit dear Tony to grasp this most sublime Truth.)
And we, as the Holy Scriptures exhort, “call her blessed,” YES, Every generation of Orthodox Christians does so in keeping with the Biblical exhortation and prophecy. Thus, we Orthodox Christians as TRUE “Bible believers.”
Do you understand this dear Tony? Or is this too lofty for your limited understanding? (I hope not.)
AND - THIS WILL BE THE END OF THIS DISCUSSION AS YOU EITHER ACCEPT THIS BIBLICAL TRUTH OR REJECT IT. (Do not argue against the Truth of the “Theotokos” or your Comment Will BE DELETED.)
+Brother Nathanael Kapner
Russian Orthodox Christian
Dear Tony,
Women the world over, by Almighty God’s Own DIVINE and SUPERNATURAL Powers as God, are His chosen Personally Appointed Divine “instruments” to give BIRTH to PERSONS - and NOT ‘natures’!
Real life HUMAN BEINGS are created in the Image and Likeness of GOD HIMSELF! And in their ability to GIVE BIRTH which is but the God-like ability to bring forth NEW LIFE is how, in their special and unique way, that WOMEN all over our World ARE created in the Image and Likeness of God.
We Human Beings are of a God-created and ordained RACE of “Incarnate Spirits”. That means we have our own very personal and very DISTINCTLY IDENTIFIABLE ‘SPIRIT’.
There are CREATED spirits who are CREATED “form out of nothing” by the Creative Omnipotence of God Himself and who are then UNITED to a physical human nature in A BODY.
But when the Eternal Uncreated and Divine Spirit of the Second Person of the Divine and Most Holy Trinity - Who IS God Himself -takes on OUR human nature, His Eternal and Uncreated Divine Spirit is UNITED to a Human Body.
Now THAT is what is known in the Christian Church as ‘THE INCARNATION’.
The WOMAN who cooperated with God Himself in allowing her WOMANLY NATURE to conceive a Child Whose Own Spirit is Divine and Eternal is PROPERLY ‘The Mother of God’!
That Child is really and truly HER Child - and no one elses.
And that’s the way it was, the way it is and the way it will FOREVER….precisely BECAUSE the Incarnation of God the Father’s Only Eternally Begotten Son took place in Human History on account of this WOMAN who consented to CONCEIVING A CHILD by the Divine Power of God the Holy Spirit.
I hope that help you APPRECIATE just exactly WHO this ‘Woman’ we all know as the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Most Holy Theotokos really and truly IS!
- Fr. Joseph
Regarding the Ecumenical Councils of many centuries ago.
Is there any Ecumenical Council wherein the Church Fathers with full Apostolic Authority dogmatically state that when a NUCLEAR BOMB goes off, those of the ORTHODOX Church will not and cannot suffer any adverse effects?
In the Western-Latin Church, there is this Canonical Principle which sums up the totality of the Divine Mission of Christ our Lord. That Latin phrase is:
“Salus animarum suprema lex” which when translated into English means
“The Supreme Law is the salvation of souls.”
Now THAT is “supremely BINDING” on both the Catholic as well as Orthodox Church. And if there is going TO EVER be any real and true spiritual reconcilation BETWEEN THE TWO, the Orthodox Church must submit to that Principle and the Catholic Church must submit to that Principle.
Nuclear bombs going off in Europe WILL most assuredly harm any number of the Orthodox Faithful, their Patriarchs, Metropolitans, Archbishops, Bishops, Priests, Hiermonks and great numbers of the simple Orthodox Lay Faithful. The exact same hold true for Catholic Christians of the ROMAN Rite, the BYZANTINE Rite, the MALABAR Rite, the MELKITE Rite, etc.
Fr. Andrei, an ORTHODOX Priest and Rector onf the Orthodox Church on-the-waters in Murmansk RUSSIA is seeing the PROBLEMS caused by Satan and his minions:
http://www.fatima.org/news/newsviews/satanism.asp
And RUSSIAN Special Security Forces of the nation-state of RUSSIA wherein the RUSSIAN Orthodox Church has its Patriarchs and Metropolitians and Bishops and Clergy and Orthodox Lay Faithful clearly acknowledge the rise of Satanism amid the Russian nation and Russian populace
http://www.fatima.or/news/newsviews/satanism2.asp
Now please DO NOTE the Satanic slogan therein
“Death To All Things Living!”
Satan WANTS the Patriarch and Hierarchy of the RUSSIAN Orthodox Church DEAD. Satan WANTS the Russian Orthdox Church’s Lay Faithful DEAD. And Satan wants ALL of the Greek Orthodox, Syrian Orthodox, Coptic Orthodox, Serbian Orthodox Church’s Patriarchs, Hierarchy and Orthodox Lay Faithful DEAD!
Now as a Catholic Priest ordained into the Church’s Monastic Brotherhood, I don’t fancy the idea of Satan and his minions wanting TO KILL OFF, HARM, DESTORY or DESCECRATE ANYTHING SACRED within the Orthodox Church nor a single member of ANY of the Orthodox Church.
One tries and tries and tries again TO INFORM the Orthodox Church Hierarchy and Lay Faithful that GOD HIMSELF has given to His Church THE ABILITY to summarily CRUSH the head of Satan so as to DEFEAT every last satanic enemy of His Church and of our Human Race created in the Image and Likeness of God, but…
…we simply have to STOP this endless and perpetually instigated TURF & DOCTRINAL WARS over “Jurisdication” and “Filioque” so that we can get the minds, hearts, souls and spirits of ALL of the Orthodox Church to PAY ATTENTION to what the Mother of God herself DESIRES for HER CHURCH here on earth TO DO so as to WIN this spiritual battle against Satan and his seen and unseen hordes!
- Fr. Joseph
Lets get our selective religious ideas, notions, pre-conceived ideas as well as personal pet-peeve religious and psycho-spiritual PREJUDICES OFF the errors, mistakes, gross injustices that have occured IN THE PAST by those who had the wonderful opporunity of living in much more simpler and benign World WITHOUT Weapons of Mass and Total Destruction so that ALL OF US might use these God-given minds and hearts of ours to look directly and attentively to what is confronting ALL OF US RIGHT NOW in this year 2009 Anno Domini!
The Ecumenical Councils of the past are SUBORDINATE TO the Apostolic Tradition and Apostolic Teachings regardless of what any theologian might asert otherwise.
The Ecumenical Councils are NOT on the same footing as the Divinely Inspired Canon of Sacred Christian Scirptures! The Ecumenical Councils of the Church Fathers are meant to be THE SERVANTS TO and SERVANTS OF the Divinely Inspired and Apostolic Teachings Scriptures.
From the Gospel of St. John, Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants the world over (to include their respective ‘hierarchies’) can all read
“In the beginning was the Word (the LOGOS)
the Word (LOGOS) was with God
and the Word (LOGOS) was God.
He was with God in the beginning.
Through Him ALL THINGS came to be,
not one thing had its being but through Him
St. John then continues his Divinely Inspired full of Apostolic Authority discourse and teaching
“The Word (LOGOS) was made flesh
He lived among us,
and we saw His (Divine) Glory
the (Divine) Glory that is His
AS THE ONLY SON OF THE FATHER
full of Grace and Truth.”
The LOGOS is responsible for the NUMBER OF ATOMS that make up and comprise our physical universe.
The LOGOS is responsible for how much SPACE our physical universe contains.
The LOGOS decided what was going to the speed of light.
The LOGOS created Gravity, Time, Space, Matter and Energy.
And the LOGOS took on our HUMAN NATURE and walked amongst our Human Race AS one of us 2,000 years ago.
Now this same LOGOS, God Incarnate, through Whom all things visible and invisible came into our World TO SAVE as well as TO REDEEM Mankind so as to REGAIN the type of lives and living that His Divine Father and our Divine Heaven ORGINALLY intended for us all.
THE LOGOS wants for the entire World and for the entire Human Race for which He took on OUR human nature in order TO SAVE and TO REDEEM all of Mankind out of Divine Obedience to His Eternal and Divine FATHER in Heaven.
Then there will be WORLD PEACE.
And THEN, every last living human being on planet earth will fully realize and comprenend the Utter Goodness of their God and Father in Heaven Who Himself said
“I will make you enemies of each other
you (Satan) and the Woman your offspring and HER offspring
It (her Church) WILL CRUSH YOUR HEAD
and you will strike its heel.”
- THE ADAMIC COVENANT - Genesis 3:15
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Fr Joseph,
May I respectfully remind you that the “salvation of souls” is dependent on “right dogma.”
And this is why I am in the “Orthodox” Christian Church, for our “right worship” for the “salvation of our souls” is based on “right dogma.”
Much Love To You In Christ Our Saviour,
+Brother Nathanael Kapner
Russian Orthodox Christan
Part of the “right worship” consists of NOT slandering to causing division that impedes the “salvation of souls”.
“Right Worship” also consists in our becoming DOCILE and ATTENTIVE to what the Saving Graces imparted onto and into us, both indivdually as well as collectively, call forth from us what sort of SERVICE we are to render unto God and His Divine Will.
Hence, one way or another, these man-made squabbles, problems, difficulties and deliberate obstacles to what it is that God Wants Done down here on earth have to be addressed.
- Fr. Joseph
Are people DOCILE and ATTENTIVE enough, and do they have a WILLING HEART, to consider some historical TRUTH regarding ‘filioque’?
As Johannes Grohe has pointed out, a regional council in PERSIA in 410 introduced one of the earliest forms of the “filioque” in the Creed; the council qualifiedd that the Spirit proceeds from the Father “and the Son”. Coming from the rich theology of early EAST SYRIAN CHRISTIANITY, this expression in this ocntext is authentically EASTERN. Therefore, the ‘filioque’ CANNOT be attacked as a SOLELY WESTERN INNOVATION, nor as something created by the Pope.” ref.
http://www.americancatholicpress.org/Father_%20Gilligan_Filioque_clause_page1.html
- Fr. Joseph
“Right Worship” also consists of confessing our sins to our Lord, God, Savior and King.
In Latin, that sorrowful lament goes like this
‘Mae culpa, mae culpa, mae maxima culpa’
‘Through MY fault, through MY fault, through MY MOST GRIEVEOUS fault’.
‘I CONFESS TO ALMIGHTY GOD, and to YOU, my brothers and my sisters, that I HAVE SINNED through my own fault, in my thoughts and in my DEEDS, it what I HAVE DONE and in what I HAVE FAILED TO DO.’
To REFUSE seeking RECONCILATION with those one has WRONGED is not “right worship”.
To CONTINUE IN promoting the grave errors and grave injustice of OTHERS who have preceded us in life is likewise not “right worship”.
- Fr. Joseph
For we are ALL called by our Merciful and All-Good and Loving God TO WORSHIP in “spirit and in truth”.
Not on this mountain. Not to that mountain.
But in spirit and in TRUTH.
That’s what the Father wants. That type of worship, so says the Lord.
- Fr. Joseph
My dearest Brother Nathanael,
One would have to be blind as a bat to NOT see the Divine Grace(s) of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ NOT working in, with and through you. And where, or better yet, from WHOM have you obtained those Graces?
Answer is simple: from the Lord.
To be sure, you obtain those Graces via your prayers, your fasts, your Lectio Divina which is your attentive meditation and thinking about WHAT is written in Sacred Christian Scripture. And most assuredly, those Graces are granted to you on a One-to-one basis via the Lord’s SACRAMENTS He has given to and entrusted to His Church here on earth.
No bunch of theologians or any sorts have granted you those Graces. And no bunch of commentators giving their personal opinions has granted you those Graces.
Those Divine Graces, those Divine Spiritual GIFTS that are lavished upon you are on account of GOD’S LOVE for you which you return in your spiritual and loving embrace of Him.
THAT is worship in ’spirit and truth’.
- Fr. Joseph
My dear Brother Nathanael,
So whether you recognize it or not, the GREATER witness you are giving to the entire World via your RZN website is NOT in exposing what these Christ-hating Zionists have done and are doing. Your GREATER witness to the whole-wide-world is the Divine TRUTH that God DOES impart His Divine and Unseen Spiritual Life-giving Graces and Gifts into and onto INDIVDIUALS, such as yourself.
And it is THAT which causes so many young people from NYC and the world over to be DRAWN to your street ministry AS WELL AS to RZN.
People ‘on the streets’ and all across this World of our personally, deeply, initimately and in a very real and very vital SPIRITUAL WAY know deep down inside of themselves they are being DECEIVED, they are being USED, they are being ENSLAVED, they are being DEPRIVED of the sort of Life and Living that OUR Father in Heaven desires for them to really and truly DO have!
They intuitively KNOW deep down inside of themselves that there simply MUST be a much more better sort of Life and Living, for their very spirits GROAN within themselves under these manifold geo-political BURDENS and OBSTACLES imposed on them. And they CANNOT HELP BUT hear the ‘groaning’ eminating from their own God-given spirits.
- Fr. Joseph
My dear Brother Nathanael,
And by gosh, by golly, my dear Brother, it is our Father in Heaven who is HOPING that you and I and whoever else who MIGHT wish to help out to get these people BACK INTO spiritual common-union with their God and Father in Heaven.
These people who are, for the most part, deprived of religious training and the fruits of religous life are looking to US to help them find their way BACK to God - and here we are, giving a ‘public witness’ to the manifold sources of purely man-made HOSTILITIES within and amongst those of us who call ourselves members of ‘The Church’.
These sad DIVISIONS brought about the pride in men’s minds and hearts in ages gone past only serve to further CONFUSE and DEMORALIZE many a soul from finding their way out of this ‘Rat Maze’ called the World.
Let us NOT forget this fact - that we are very capable of INFECTING PEOPLE with all manner of confusion and doubt and our own unwitting ignornace.
Yet, we must NOT back off nor coward away from CONFRONTING THOSE who would mischeiviously attempt to thrown obstacles in the way of those whom THE LORD desires to return to His Father’s Home.
And THAT is reason He grants us His Divine Graces and Gifts - to be of TRUTHFUL SERVICE to others, for their sakes and for His Sake. Amen.
- Fr. Joseph
Hi Brother Kapner,
I do not believe Mary’s giving birth to the Son of God in any way contributed to the Son of God being the Son of God.
I do not know if the above is viewed by you as heresy or not.
Given that Paul foresaw a great falling away and even the Church of Ephesus in Revelation “lost her first love,” I will not see infallibility in an ecumenical council that took place a full 400+ years after Jesus walked this earth.
Seeing infallibility in ecumenical councils requires extrapolation with a certain specific interpretation of Scripture, it seems to me.
I hope to stand firmly on the Bible and the Bible only, in terms of written text about God. In saying this, I am not suggesting I should not give consideration to other sources or to anything communicated through any man or to the impressions of the Holy Spirit or to what God may speak to me through the manifestation of His created word.
I do hope to be teachable.
Thanks and Blessings,
Tony
Dear Tony,
“The More Obvious Something Is, The More Likely It Will Be Overlooked”
If you are going to be “ruthlessly truthful” to and with yourself, you have ALREADY ACCEPTED the Teaching Authority vested in THE BISHOPS of the Christian Church granted to them by your Savior and Lord, Jesus Christ.
For it was THE BISHOPS of His Church at the Councils of Carthage and Hippo (397 & 400 A.D. respectively) who defined and declared WHICH BOOKS/WRITINGS were to be included in that Bible that you read from and rely on.
Now then, if you will not accept the Teaching Authority vested in the Bishops of the Church at the Councils of the Church - then please tell us all ON WHAT GROUNDS are you relying on ‘The Bible’ that you have since it was THE BISHOPS who AUTHORIZED ‘The Bible’ into existance.
Now FYI, the Canon of Sacred Christian Scripture was defined for a very specific reason.
To give Christians VALID and AUTHENTIC Apostolic Teachings DURING the Liturgy of the Word which is contained in BOTH the Catholic Church Mass and the Divine Liturgies of the Eastern Church.
Now what are you going to do with that Bible of yours?
If you ACCEPT ‘The Bible’, then like it or not, you ARE accepting the Councils of the Church. No two ways around it.
Sorry, that’s just the way it is!
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Brother Nathanael,
Just F.Y.I. - New York City has implemented a new pedestrian plan on Broadway. Sections of Broadway are CLOSED DOWN to permit the entire street to be used by pedestrians to walk on.
The next time you go to NYC, consider Times Square and Broadway.
And might I suggest containing the Orthodox community in NYC so that you can have an Orthodox Priest on hand.
You can teach all of the youth how to say the Lord’s Prayer in unison out loud and your Orthodox Priest can then administer Sacraments to those who’ve gathered around you.
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Tony,
“I do not believe Mary’s giving birth to the Son of God in any way contributed to the Son of God being the Son of God.”
It’s all in Scripture in very plain words at Luke 1:26-38, the very heart-story of Christian faith and the Gospel that of the Incarnation of the Son of God–the Word or Logos became flesh.
Just read the passages in Luke as they are without worrying about all of the discussions about the Virgin Mary, and you’ll see it just fine.
It’s all about the Son of God taking on human flesh in God’s act of a special creation. You are correct in that God-Self-existing and Uncreated, does not have a human mother.
But Jesus Christ as the Son of God is both fully human and fully divine in one Person.
Mary is the mother of His human nature. She gave birth to Him, and so the Son of God became fully Man. Says so, right in Luke.
As for her title of “Theotokos”, or “birth-giver of God”, that came later when controversies arose around a heresy which denied the full divinity of Jesus Christ when He became incarnate. It’s a title that says nothing else other than what Luke writes, or implies that Mary was more than a human woman.
Scripture is the core of all true theology.
At 1:28 Mary is greeted with an exalted salutation from the angel Gabriel because, in her destiny to be the mother of Christ, she is the most blessed woman of all time.
At 1:35 ‘Holy Spirit’ and ‘power of the Highest’ are synonymous; this is a case of repetition for emphasis. ‘Holy One’ is a messianic title. That He is to be born of Mary (Is 7:14) demonstrates Jesus Christ’s fully human nature. But that the Virgin will conceive and bear the Son of God reveals the divine nature of Christ. (Is. 7:14, but also read the titles of divinity found in Isaiah. At that time, Isaiah described or named the future Child as Immanuel–”God with us.”)
We note especially the reference to the Holy Triunity: God the Father (the Highest), the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Yours in Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior
Human mothers do not simply give birth to human natures which happen to be attached to umbilical cords.
Human mothers give birth to PERSONS who have a human nature.
The human spirit residing within the physical manifesation of the body confers human “personhood”, and human mothers give birth to human persons.
The entire spectrum of spiritual beings who are all individual persons in their own right is summaried thusly by St. Thomas Aquinas
There are those who have a beginning and who have an end.
There are those who have a beginning and who have no end
There are those who have no beginning and who have no end.
The first line describes us human beings livng in space/time/matter/energy.
The second line describes those who have an angelic nature.
The last line describes those who have the Divine Nature.
- Fr. Joseph
All of us human beings have life on account of God first conceiving His Thought about us as an individual person. God, Who is Love, loves that Thought of us so much that He employs His Divine Omnipotence to WILL us into existance and confer upon all of us LIFE. Hence, God creates our spirits and unites those spirits to a body within the womb of our mothers.
Without a spirit, we are not members of the race of incarnate spirits known as the Human Race.
The Human Race is composed of human persons.
All members of the Human Race have a mother.
When God conceived His Thought to send His Son into our World in the Incarnation, God the Father selected the Woman who would be Mother to His Divine Son.
The Blessed Virgin Mary’s Son, however, did not have a CREATED spirit. His was an Uncreated and Eternal Spirit being the Second Eternal Person of the Blessed Trinity.
God became man. That Man has a Mother.
- Fr. Joseph
The Second Person of the Blessed Trinity is aware His Eternal Divinity is the result of the First Person of the Blessed Trinity. Hence, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity properly addresses the First Person of the Blessed Trinity as ‘FATHER’.
The Son of God Who took on our humanity instructs all of us who have a CREATED spirit in the Image and Likeness of God Himself to call up, refer to and PRAY to God thusly
‘OUR FATHER, WHO ART IN HEAVEN, HALLOWED BE THY NAME…et al’.
God is our Father in Heaven precisely on account of His Conceiving a Divine Thought about us all and loving that Thought of His about us SO MUCH that He Wills us into existance.
We are “created” by the Love of God.
The Eternal Son of God the Father was not “created”, but Eternally Begotten, One in Being with the Father via the Divine Love the Father confers upon His Divine Son.
- Fr. Joseph
The Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Blessed and Divine Trinity, is confered upon us - and it is that Holy Spirit Who allows us all to put on the Mind of Christ so as to gain an at-one-ment with Him.
It is that Holy Spirit Who eternally abides in the Son of God Who grants us the Grace to be able to recoginze, reverence, approach, love and dutifully serve His Eternal Father Who is our Father in Heaven.
The Holy Spirit’s graces and gifts upon our minds and hearts causes us to spring forth new inner spiritual life within our very selves, within our very own unique personhoods, and confers upon us the actual inner spiritual experience of being able to call out to God with heartfelt prayer words such as ‘ABBA!’ ‘FATHER!’.
- Fr. Joseph
That’s the culmination, that’s the goal, that’s the entire mission and purpose of our spiritual lives being human beings created in the Image and Likeness of God.
To recognize and enter into spiritual intimacy as a son or daughter in an abiding, loving, filial union of intimacy with OUR FATHER in Heaven - that’s why we are all here for. That’s the ultimate meaning and purpose for ALL of ours lives.
- Fr. Joseph
From the Holy Anaphora of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, the dominant Liturgy of the Eastern Church:
Priest: Especially fo our most holy, pure, blessed, and glorious Lady, the Theotokos and ever virgin Mary.
People: It is truly right to bless you, Theotokos, ever blessed, most pure, AND MOTHER OF OUR GOD. More honorable than the Cherubim, and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim, without corruption YOU GAVE BIRTH TO GOD THE WORD. We magnify you, the true Theotokos.
- Just for the public record here -
- Fr. Joseph
Just striving to hold and preserve THE UNITY between the Western and Eastern Church here in my own small way.
Regarding the Divinity of Christ, His humanity, our humanity and the Divine Will of God our Father in Heaven…
From the very simple Roman rite of the Mass of the Western Church, the simple prayers of the Priest during the preparation of wine prior to the Consecration/Eucharistic Prayers includes these words MEANT to be heard audibly FOR THE SAKE OF those in attendence.
The Priest pours but a drop of water into the Chalice of wine and DECLARES to the Christian congregation:
“By the mystery of this water and wine, may WE come to share in the Divinity of Christ Who humbled Himself TO SHARE IN OUR HUMANITY.”
- Fr. Joseph
There’s gotta be a Priest from the Eastern Church who can remind me where we find the Eastern Church’s similiar assertion of the Faith
“O happy fault of Adam which caused such a glorious exchange”
It was something along that line of thought.
For from the INFALLIBLE Apostolic Teaching of St. Peter as found in his second epistle
“By His Divine Power, He has given us all the things that we need for Life and for True Devotion, bringing us to know God Himself, Who has called us by His Own Glory and Goodness. In making these gifts, He has given us the guarantee of something very great and wonderful to come; through them you will be able to SHARE IN THE DIVINE NATURE and to escape corruption in a world that is sunk in vice.” - 2 Peter 1:3-4
That’s the REAL ‘Good News’, the REAL ‘Gospel’
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Fr Joseph - Times Sq & Broadway is EXACLTY where I go all the time.
I stand with the Cross Held High right smack in the middle of Broadway on a wide Median Strip.
But thanks for the suggest… +BN
Dear KathJulaianne -
Fr Joseph is quite right in regard to his correction of you stating that “the virgin Mary gave birth to Christ’s human nature,” that the “Virgin Mary is the mother of Christ’s human nature.”
This is not what the Orthodox Church teaches and you should please clarify and correct this statement that you made.
The Virgin Mary is the “Theotokos,” that is, the “God Birth Giver,” NOT, the “Nature of man Birth giver.”
Thus you fall into a type of heresy close to that of Nestorios who stated that the Virgin Mary gave birth to “Christ the man” calling her, “Christotokos” and later on Christ was adopted by grace into the Divine nature by the Eternal Son of God coming to dwell in the “Christ.” The Council of Ephesus in the 6th Century condemned this teaching and affirmed the title, “Theotokos,” “GOD BIRTH-GIVER” as she who gave birth to the PERSON, the full PERSON of the Eternal Son of God who assumed impersonal flesh from her.
I outlined this in my first response to Tony and really there was *no need* for you to further attempt to elucidate what I had already stated quite succinctly and in full conformity to the Nicene Creed and Orthodox teaching. Because you felt a need to further explain what I had already explained sufficiently, you only confused the matter and you made a statement that was in error…not Orthodox… (perhaps it was a typo?)
The Orthodox Church teaches (and really you should know this and thus perhaps you made a typo error in your statement) that the Virgin Mary gave birth to the *PERSON* OF THE ETERNAL SON OF GOD who was incarnate of her, NOT giving birth to a human nature.
And a correction was made to this statement of yours by Fr Joseph who wrote, “Mothers do not give birth to natures but to persons.”
Please make the necessary clarification dear Katherine, my dear Orthodox Christian sister.
I kindly and respectfully ask you not to add to my words in the future when I explain the Orthodox position to someone sufficiently.
Much Love In Christ Our Saviour and His Holy Precious Mother Whom “All Generations Call Blessed” As She Prophecied in the Gospel of St Luke,
+Brother Nathanael Kapner
Russian Orthodox Christian
Dear BN and Father Joseph,
Bless you both. What I wrote was not what I meant, and that does look almost Nestorianish the way I wrote it. And yes, please forgive the error and the trespass, BN.
Fr Joseph is quite right in regard to his correction of you stating that “the virgin Mary gave birth to Christ’s human nature,” that the “Virgin Mary is the mother of Christ’s human nature.”
This is not what the Orthodox Church teaches and you should please clarify and correct this statement that you made.
The Virgin Mary is the “Theotokos,” that is, the “God Birth Giver,” NOT, the “Nature of man Birth giver.”
“Virgin Mary is the mother of Christ’s human nature.”–Fr. J. This is most certainly what I meant, thank you.
“Our God Jesus Christ was in the womb of Mary”; “God took flesh of the Virgin Mary” (St. Ignatius, St. Irenaeus).
“If anyone will not confess that Immanuel is very God, and that therefore the Holy Virgin is Theotokos, inasmuch as in the flesh she bore the Word of God made flesh: let him be anathema.” St. Cyril of Alexandra; accepted and confirmed by the Third Ecumenical Council.
Dear Tony,
You say:
>>Seeing infallibility in ecumenical councils requires extrapolation with a certain specific interpretation of Scripture, it seems to me.
>>I hope to stand firmly on the Bible and the Bible only, …
And where, do you think the Bible, as you know it today, came from? Who put it together and by what process?
Your logic is flawed, mainly because it is out of timely order. The Bible canon was put together via the mechanism (if you can call it that) of the Councils. And thus, to say that the Councils took the Scriptures and interpreted them in some way to support their actions makes no sense.
The Holy Orthodox Church, puts Holy Traditions First, because it actually CAME FIRST AND IS THE CAUSE OF THE EXISTENCE OF THE SCRIPTURES (BIBLE) TODAY.
In short, the Bible, which you see as your only source of inspiration, is the result of the Councils, and NOT the other way around. Your argument is a very typical result of your the completely forgotten (by you and your heritage) Holy and Apostolic tradition.
It makes no sense to completely trust the Bible and on the other hand to doubt the methods and practices of the people who put it together.
If you trust the Bible only, then for your own sake, research on how it came together and by who. Then, read some more on what else these people who put the Bible together wrote and said. You will find that the people who put it together, also put together a number of other things, which you now either are completely ignorant of, or reject. Why?
I DO NOT suggest this as something to do, but: The most logical and appropriate action to take as somebody who denounces the Councils, is to reject all of its accomplishes, INCLUDING the Bible. In fact, if you do not believe in Councils, then you should reject all councils, including councils and decisions taken by councils, through out history in the various churches, including the protestant, evangelical, etc etc. ones.
You see how your logic is flawed here, by lack of knowledge of the facts and selective deduction?
Stav
Dear Tony,
That last post, if of course in addition to the response that was given to you by Fr. Joseph.
The first church selected and put the books of the bible together, not the other way around.
The chain of causality is:
God the Father–>Jesus Christ–> The Church–> The Councils–> The Bible.
For some “reason”, you cut out and rejected the middle bits.
Stav
Dear Tony,
And by a strange coincidence, anyone’s path towards God The Father must take the reverse path aswell:
Read The Bible –> Find and understand its roots the Councils and their descisions –> Find The true Church through the Councils and their descisions –> Find Jesus Christ by being part of the true Church –> Reach God The Father through Christ!
You my friend, are stuck in step 1,The Bible, and you will be stuck there, until you realize that the next thing to “check out” is the Councils.
Stav
Hi All,
The following is an excerpt of a letter I wrote to an eastern orthodox father. The first sentence is a quote of something he wrote to me…
However, the scripture that you cling to, we consecrated as OUR scripture
Hmmmmm.
Well, I once heard a person talk about how sometimes there are differences of understanding and folks are split on two possibilities, when all the while there was a third option that they were not aware of.
As an example, did Israel of old canonize Jeremiah with the discernment that it was for them and them alone? Does God use people even though they are not perfect and yet, might some of HIS purposes be accomplished?
Look at Jeremiah. Deliverance from Babylon. 70 years of captivity. And yet, a larger theme seems to be the following problem, “How long will evil thoughts lodge within you?” As well as a solution to this other sort of captivity, “I will write My laws in your heart.” No need for teachers (coupling with Ephesians 4, the usefulness of teachers until perfection).
Did those folks that “canonized” Jeremiah see beyond their denomination, their captivity, and their need for deliverance? Was their vision circumscribed? At least possibly?
What is my point?
Well, if I am philosophical about it all, it seems you are making assumptions. WE canonized it according to OUR understanding, etc.
I offer a different line of reasoning. Folks of faith but not perfect faith were used by God to do something wonderful. Their vision around what they were doing was circumscribed. It was limited in scope and understanding.
But, God has other ideas. He used these people to canonize this “Book.” Just as Jeremiah was hardly limited to some nation/denomination 3000 years ago (or whenever it was), it was good they did so, even though they lacked a full understanding of the message contained within what they were canonizing.
Why cannot the same be true of whomever canonized the books that would become the Bible? Why can’t God have used these people all the while He saw a different use for what they were doing?
Can you refute this alternative premise? If you can, I would like to see this refutation.
One other thought. I think in a lot of respects, the message that is in the Bible is self evident and is a result of folks comparing spiritual with spiritual. If people love His word, they will see things in it. If so, I suggest perhaps the biggest criteria for the Bible and its scope is the entirety of truth latent in it. I would further suggest that to say “OUR interpretation” might be as flawed as a Jew canonizing Jeremiah holding to HIS interpretation. After all, they canonized it so we better limit ourselves to their understanding.
God might have other things in mind.
Blessings,
Tony
Anyway, to summarize my main point:
There is a logical fallacy going on here. It is this:
Premise:
We canonized these books.
Conclusion:
Therefore, the entirety of our apostolic procession and our councils is 100% inspired.
That is an unprovable conclusion.
Actually, stuff like this happens all the time. Peter confesses Jesus to be the Christ. Later he tells Him He must not go to Calvary.
It is a logical fallacy to state that given a collection of people were 100% inspired in the process of canonization must mean their councils were 100% inspired or their interpretation of what they canonized was complete.
It is an assertion. It is plausible, but it is not logically imperative.
Blessings,
Tony
Dear Tony,
Truthfully, between you and I, I can understand your implicit “hostility” are personal rejection of what is generically called ‘organized/instituionalized religion’.
Your personal response - a truthful, sincere response - is the only “natural” response one can expect from people who truthfully look at and/or experience both the hostility and chaos the DISUNITY of the Christian Church wherein everyone who wants to be a somebody can go off bellowing all manner of strange thing and doctrine ‘in the Name of God’.
Every living person created in the Image and Likeness of God has a “Divine RIGHT” to learn the clear, concise, truthful and factual Teachings and Revelations of Christ Jesus.
Hence, what you see and what you witness is but the mutually antagonistic claims, which seen never-ending and perpetually going around in spinning circles, that accompany Christ’s Teachings and the Apostolic Faith.
- Fr. Joseph
The Bible says that knowledge shall increase in the last days. Oh sure, this might mean people can make more powerful microprocessors, but isn’t it likely this knowledge is primarily about God? Daniel is sealed until the end. Many believe Revelation’s primary purpose is to unseal Daniel.
Is it not plausible that incredible theological expansion will be the order of the day as we approach The Day?
I grew up Catholic. I was always taught the Ten Commandments were a big thing.
The New Saint Joseph Baltimore Catechism, p. 133
The Church has power from God to make laws and to change laws that it makes. It has no power, however, over the laws of God themselves. The Church can never change them
In the book of Daniel, a succession of four earthly powers is described. Daniel lives during the existence of the first two – Babylon and Media-Persia. He is told what the fourth power is – Greece. He is not told the name of the fourth beast, but any historian knows. It is Rome.
The tenor of the book’s description of these earthly powers is secular. But, a dramatic shift occurs when A POWER STRUCTURE THAT IS A SUBSET OF ROME HITS THE SCENE.
The little horn. This power structure is fraught with religious overtones. It is a subset of Rome and yet emerges some time after Rome emerged. It comes later. If you compare spiritual with spiritual, the little horn is also the beast that rises up out of the sea in Revelation 11.
Everyone knows that a power structure can change its own laws. But, there is an interesting tidbit about this power. It THINKS to change times and laws. THINKS to. (Daniel 7:25)
The New Saint Joseph Baltimore Catechism, p. 118
The Church commands us to keep Sunday as the Lord’s day because on Sunday Christ rose from the dead, and on Sunday the Holy Spirit descended on the apostles.
For these reasons the Church changed the Lord’s day from Saturday to Sunday.
Jesus: Not one jot or one tittle.
Revelation: Here are they who keep the commandments of GOD and have the faith of Jesus.
I already wrote on the Sabbath. Another resurrection took place before Jesus rested on the seventh day of Passion week.
Things are circumscribed. People look to shadow, but the seventh day Sabbath points to very image and only very image will be able to produce the long awaited perfection God will produce in that Day.
Those councils may carry some weight, but I highly doubt they will pack the truth-carrying punch to persuade me to keep the commandments of men instead of the commandments of God.
Blessings,
Tony
Dear Tony -
You do NOT know the Holy Scriptures.
The apostles worshiped on the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, as ST Paul stated in his second letter to the Church at Corinth and St John of the Apocalypse stated in the Revelation, calling it the “Lord’s Day.”
The FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK is the fulfillment of the foreshadowing “8th day” which the Holy Prophets in the OT spoke of.
The “8th” day is the Day of the NEW CREATION which the Lord Jesus Christ ushered in through His Resurrection on the FIRST/EIGHTH DAY, the “Lord’s Day.” THIS IS WHY WE ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS set aside Sunday, the FIRST/EIGHTH Day of the week calling it the DAY OF THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST.
This is why St Paul says that we are NEW CREATIONS in Christ.
You DO NOT KNOW the Holy Scriptures but are a one man interpreter of scant passages tossed to and fro in your heretical & seeming limited mind.
I WILL NOT allow you to make heretical statements any longer on this Comments Section as if you were some authority, WHICH YOU OBVIOUSLY ARE NOT. You doubtless have many unconfessed sins since heretics refuse to see the LOGS in their own eyes.
ALL heretical statements made by you in the future WILL BE DELETED. If you persist, then you will be banned from ever commenting here again.
+Brother Nathanael Kapner
Russian Orthodox Christian
Dear Tony,
Well, thank you. Everyone’s “true colors” come up at some point in time (grin).
So you’re probably a Seventh Day Adventist.
And you grew up Catholic.
And your conditioned-indoctrinated response is to be expected.
My gosh, who in blue blazes do you UNDO all that IS DONE to legions of people in the name of religion via the utter ABUSE and MISUSE of the Church’s Own Canon of Sacred Scirpture?
So we have to go on and on and on with Daniel, with the Book of Revelation while these cults and sects CRUCIFY TO THEIR BLOODY DEATHS the Gospels, the Lord’s Own Words and Teachings, His very Own Apostle’s epistles..
…all for the cult/sect ‘Religious Glory’ of making their own Religious Science Fiction superior to God Incarnate’s Own Teachings and Divine Revelation.
I am TIRED!
Twenty five years of apologetics work, going ’round and ’round and ’round in circles getting nowhere fast as our world continues on its relentless march in REJECTING the expressed Divine Teachings and Divine Will of God Incarnate Himself.
- Fr. Joseph
Hi Tony,
You say:
Premise:
We canonized these books.
Conclusion:
Therefore, the entirety of our apostolic procession and our councils is 100% inspired.
That is an unprovable conclusion.
These statements presented on their own, without additional information, “sound” logical. However, your personal decision to accept only the Bible canon and nothing else, according to the above statements, has the exact same error. One could very slightly rephrase the above as:
Premise:
We canonized these books.
Conclusion:
Therefore, _a portion_ of our apostolic procession and our councils is 45% inspired.
That is an unprovable conclusion.
Exactly, as you can see above, this is something that you claim. Thus, your conclusion, based on your own argument is also unprovable. Yet, you are absolutely sure about your conclusion to trust only the Bible.
So what must we do? What we must do, is to enrich our knowledge and understanding of the entire situation and circumstances, and arrive at a more informed and complete answer.
This is why I recommended, that you check out for your self, who the people how composed the canon were, where they came from, what their influences and heritage was, and what else did they produce in these councils.
An honest approach will ensure that you see the pureness of their results. However if you approach the conclusions of the Councils already convinced that they were wrong , even if partially, then, you will automatically ignore facts, and logically presented evidence and theology which supports their conclusions.
Thus, in a nutshell, your reasons for not trusting the entirety of the Councils (and I am talking about the 1st through the 7th, as the other ones were not Ecumenical by definition), are the same reasons for which you should not trust ANY of it, including the canons.
Do you have any proof, from your point of view, that the Bible was inspired but the rest of the activities performed at the same time were not?
It is clear from whatever response you give to that, that you need to examine the matter more closely and in more impartial detail, if you are concerned with this. As I have said before, the info is out there, have a greater selection to work from and you will see what I mean.
Stav
‘O Luther, Luther. How great is your responsibility’ - Soreen Kierkegaard - Danish theologian’s comment after an extensive study of the Protestant Reformation
‘Sola Scriptura! Sola Fide!’
“These are the points that uneducated and unbalanced people DISTORT, in the same way as they DISTORT THE REST OF SCRIPTURE - a fatal thing for to do. You have been WARNED ABOUT THIS, my friends; be careful not to get carried away by THE ERRORS of unprincipled people, from the FIRM GROUND (ROCK) that you are standing on.”
- St. Peter THE ROCK Apostle - 2 Peter 3:16
- Fr. Joseph
Refute falsehood, correct error, call to obedience - but do all with patience and with the intention of TEACHING.
The time is sure to come when, far from being content with SOUND TEACHING, people will be avid for the latest novelty and collect themselves a whole series of teachers according to their own tastes; and then, instead of listening to the Truth, they will turn to myths (such as Pastor Hagee and his Isreali-Zionist First ‘Gospel’ in conjunction with the vast assortment of ‘Prosperity Gospel’ so-called Bible believing pastors and mega-chuches here in the USA).
St. Paul to Bishop Timothy - 2 Tim.4:1-4
- Fr. Joseph
Stand firm, then, brothers, and keep the (Apostolic) TRADITION that WE taught you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
In the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we urge you, brothers, TO STAY AWAY FROM any of the brothers who refuses to work or to live according to the (Apostolic) TRADITION we (Apostles) passed on to you.
St. Paul the Apostle - 1 Thessalonians 2:15; 3:6
Do I get a share of ‘The Tithes’ from the plates of the so called ‘christian zionist’ church collections everyone gives out there???
I know. No. No. No.
- Fr. Joseph
I have written a note for the members of the Church, BUT DIOTREPHES, who seems TO ENJOY being in charge of it, refuses to accept us. - The Apostle St. John, 3 Jn 9
If St. John THE APOSTLE were alive and kickin’ in this year of 2009 Anno Domini,
everyone’s Bible would read thusly:
I have written a note for the members of the Church,
BUT THE SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTS
THE CALVINIST BAPTISTS
THE UNIFICATION CHURCH OF SUN YONG MOON
THE CHRISTIAN ZIONISTS THE WORLD OVER
THE BOARD OF THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY
MADAME BLAVATSKY, THE MASONS, THE ROSICRUCIANS, THE HERMETIC ORDERS, THE KABBALISTS
THE NEW AGERS
THE WHATEVER ELSE THAT EXISTS SPEAKING ON AND ABOUT DIVINE THINGS
and who seem TO ENJOY being in charge of their cult/sect, REFUSES to accept us.
- Fr. Joseph
“Alexander the coppersmith has done me a lot of harm; the Lord will repay him for what he has done. Be on guard against him yourself; BECAUSE HE HAS BEEN BITTERLY CONTESTING EVERYTHING THAT WE (APOSTLES) SAY.” - 2 Timothy 4:14
My brothers, if one of you strays from the Truth, and another brings him back to it…et al. St. James THE APOSTLE James5:19
- Fr. Joseph
It is not those who say to Me ‘Lord, Lord’ who will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but the person who does the Will of My Father in Heaven.
When that Day comes many will say to Me ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your Name? Cast out demons in Your Name? Work many miracles in Your Name?’
Then I shall tell them to their faces; I have never known you; away from Me, you evil men!’ -
Jesus Christ’s Own Words -
The Gospel according to St. Matthew
Matthew 7:21-23
- Fr. Joseph
It’s all in the public domain.
“Believe Me, if you had begun to honour Me with a special devotion from the times of the early Church, after twenty centuries few men would remain living in idolatry, in paganism and in so many FALSE and EVIL sects, in which man is running blindly towards the abyss of eternal fire!”
God the Father to Mother Eugenia July 1932
http://www.theworkofgod.org/Library/Trinity/Father/Message1.htm
- Fr. Joseph
It’s all in the public domain.
Those FALSE and EVIL sects can all go read Apostolic Tradition and Apostolic Teachings via the Church Fathers (if they wished to)
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/
- Fr. Joseph
It’s all in the public domain.
All the pastors of all these FALSE and EVIL sects can open their Bibles are read Matthew 26:26-29, Mark 14:22-25, Luke 22:19-20, John 6:30-71 and then 1 Corinthians 11:23-32, then examine what is found on this public domain webpage
http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/a3.html
if they wished to. But they don’t.
- Fr. Joseph
It’s all in the public domain.
The pastors and preachers and leaders of all of these FALSE and EVIL sects could, if they wanted to, go view and study what occurs in Jerusalem every Easter here
http://www.holyfire.org/eng/
But they don’t.
The pastors and preachers and leaders of all of these FALSE and EVIL sects the world over could, if they wanted to, watch this video and then go PREACH and WARN their congregations the world over
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EolbO0AWE
But they don’t.
- Fr. Joseph
It’s all in the public domain.
The pastors, preachers and leaders of these FALSE and EVIL sects are all on the verge of enduring and suffering a Third World War.
They could, if they wanted to, watch this video on how World Peace is still possible.
http://heavenskeytopeace.com
But they don’t.
- Fr. Joseph
It’s all in the public domain.
The pastors, preachers, leaders of these FALSE and EVIL sects the world over in conjunction with the pastors, preachers and leaders of the Apostolic Church could ALL go read what St. Nilus has to say about the ‘State of the Church’ in our century and its FULFILLMENT going on right now in the front of their eyes
http://www.fisheaters.com/nilus.html
But they don’t.
- Fr. Joseph
What other possible conclusion can one come to besides affirming that both the ’states’ of our World along with the myriad of ‘churches’ in our World have NO INTENTION of complying with and implementing God’s Will here on earth.
A Divine Will, I might add, that is always carried out in His Divine Heavenly Realms.
What’s left for the rest of us to do other than, perhaps, break out the pop-corn, sit back in a comfy-cozy seat while we all wait for the ‘Great Entertainment Spectacle’ - the Downfall of the Human Race and very likely by a thermonuclear Third World War.
No one is listening. No one is moving or acting TO DO anything about any of this.
- Fr. Joseph
Special Notice To Fr Joseph & Stav -
I have BANNED “Tony.”
He would not give Fr Joseph a straight answer about him being a Seventh Day Adventist. And he gave Stav short shrift.
Tony is playing very coy and I deleted his last comment and BANNED him from our Comments section.
Tony pretends to be a Christian which he is NOT and came on to our Real Zionist News family to disrupt.
Tony’s gone…
+Brother Nathanael Kapner
Publisher Of Real Zionist News
It’s time for all of these FALSE and EVIL sects running around in our contemporary World to close their Book of Daniel and Book of Revelation in order to open up the Book of Ezekiel so as to read Ezekiel 33, verses 7 through 9,
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2033:7-9;&version=31;
Just as THE LORD has assigned Brother Nathanael his Mission with RZN and his street evangelism, Ezekiel 33:7-9 was the Mission assigned to me by THE LORD back in September, 1993 A.D.
From my Carmelite hermitage
http://www.catholic-church.org/apcarmel/heritage.htm
I sure do wish that MANY OF YOU repent, get to the Sacrament of Confession-Reconciliation with THE LORD GOD and get yourselves and your families to the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.
And at this point-in-time, it matters very little IF you receive His Body and Blood at a Catholic Mass OR at an Orthodox Divine Liturgy.
- Fr. Joseph
“John Michael of the Incarnation” T.O.Carm.
St. Gregory of Nyssa - Church Father - “On The Holy Spirit”
…what else is shown from this but that the Holy Spirit is NOT SEPARATED from ANY operation which is wrought by the Father AND THE SON?
Everyone here on RZN can read St. Gregory of Nyssa’s comment for themselves here
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/2904.htm
- Fr. Joseph
May our God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit help ALL OF US OUT of this global ‘Trap’ set for ALL OF US by Satan. Amen
But Church Fathers can be argued with, they are not undisputable.
Holy Scriptures and doctrines - not.
And it does matter a great deal, whether a person is on Catholic Mass or in Orthodox Liturgy.
If it was the same thing they would not be separate. I don’t understand why Catholics are always acting this way on political level ‘lets ignore the differences’. We don’t need that.
Isn’t Pope and (even the idea of Pope) in some way like an antiChrist, declaring himself pure and sinless, while only Christ himself is this way and ALL people are helpless sinners without Him??
“One does not dispatch fools with arguments, but with FACTS.” - Josephus, Judean General
Kt,
To whom did OUR LORD appoint and commission to be the LEADERS of His Church here on earth?
He gave that Commission to HIS APOSTLES and through them, the Church’s BISHOPS derive THEIR SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY over God’s Own Church here on earth.
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Kt,
“Blessed are the PEACEMAKERS, for they shall be called sons of God.” - Our Lord
Peacemakers - how in blue blazes can I do that with this getting so “hot under the collar” temperment I have to wrestle with every day of my life.
Then, please, for the sake of PEACE and UNITY within the Lord’s Church of 2009 Anno Domini, I refer you to the Church Council of Laodicea, 360 A.D., a full 694 years BEFORE the year 1054 A.D..
Would you PLEASE read Canon 12 of that Church Council here
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3806.htm
Thank you. And may THE LORD grant you copious amounts of His Divine Grace upon you and your loved ones. Amen. +
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Kt,
Did you know that under the PAGAN Roman Emporers, until the time of Constantine and his co-Eastern Roman Empire’s emporer EDICT OF MILAN, that being ordained to be the Bishop of Rome was the equivalent of a DEATH SENTENCE??
Do you know how many BISHOPS OF ROME lost the lives to the PAGAN POWERS of the Roman Empire?
Did you know that? To accept ordination to become Bishop of Rome meant CERTAIN DEATH at the hands of the EMPORERS???
Anyways, did ANY of the Roman Empire EMPORERS have any authority or divine right to appoint THEIR OWN Bishop as to assume the BISHOP OF ROME’S office per Canon 12 of the Church’s Council of Laodicea of 360 A.D.
YES or NO?
- Fr. Joseph
If per Canon 12 of the Church Council of Laodicea of 360 A.D. PROHIBITS Kings and Political Parties and Emporers from appointing their own personally selected and desired individuals as BISHOPS so as to promote their own perosnally desired political aims and territorial plans of expansion to increase the size and scope of their own personal influence upon the peoples of the natios of our World…
…then can a Byzantine Emporer depose of ANY Bishop of the Church in order to install his own personal choice of an indivdiual to the office of Bishop?
- Fr. Joseph
Are we not hypocritical when we assert Apostolic Tradition, when we assert Apostolic Teachings, when we assert the validity of the Church Councils on account of BISHOPS ALONE having jurisdiction over the Lord’s Church, when we deliberately call into doubt the Patristic Writings of Saintly Church Fathers BECAUSE that does not fit nice and neatly into what WE want to assert as ‘The Truth’ regarding Human Salvation History down through the centuries of Human History?
Who is causing all of these divisions and problems for the Lord and His Church and the Holy Spirit?
- Fr. Joseph
Per Canon 12 of the Church Council of Ladicea of 360 A.D., the Emporer of the Roman Empire was SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED per the Bishops of the Lord’s Church Militant here on earth from appointing Bishops TO His Church.
When the Roman Empire was divided into TWO parts, the WESTERN Roman Empire and the EASTERN Roman Empire, did Canon 12 of the Church Council of Laodicea of 360 A.D. CEASE TO RULE/GUIDE the Lord’s Church Militant here on earth?
Could the Emperor of what was the WESTERN Roman Empire appoint Bishops to His Church.
Could the Emporer of the what was the EASTERN Roman Empire appoint Bishops of His Church?
- Fr. Joseph
Dear Kt,
In the book written by the CHURCH FATHER you might know as St. Augustine entitled ‘The City of God’, in his book 19 of ‘The City of God’, St. Augustine - CHURCH FATHER - explains to the inhabitants of the WESTERN Roman Empire WHY their half of the WESTERN Roman Empire collasped and was unrun by hordes from Germany, why their capitol of ROME was sacked and WHY they were being PUNISHED so thusly.
St. Augustine EXPLAINS to the inhabitants of the WESTERN Roman Empire it was on account of their DECADENT, SINFUL AND GOD-LESS WAYS OF LIVING (despite the